Anti-Theism in America

[AtheismIsReality]

If you read a few more books, and vegetated in front of Youtube a bit less, you might be less ignorant.

Try
The Occult Roots of Nazism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Occult_Roots_of_Nazism

Further, even in concept, he routinely referred to Christ, yet believed in extermination of the Jews. Christ was a Jew though, and advocated the saving of Jews. Seems a contradiction, until you realize that Hitler himself was a master of propaganda. He had to used religious terms to sway the masses, regardless of individual religious views.

Religion is routinely used by leaders to sway people. Obama is a master at that.

Finally, the Nazis had a distinct atheistic belief system. For example, they believed in a superior race, which is based on atheistic evolutionary thinking. There is no god, thus we are not created in his image. Instead we are really just all animals in a natural selection struggle, and killing another human, is no more or less important than killing an ant or grasshopper. Further, killing off the weaker of the species will help the gene pool and improve us evolutionarily speaking.

This is why nazis had no problem using old, retarded and disabled people as test subjects, as well as those races considered weak. After all, they are just animals like any other. You shoot a rabid dog, you shoot a disabled man. No difference. Very atheistic.

Germany got some of its eugenic ideas from California.

We sterilized people in this country because they were considered unfit to breed. Oliver Wendall Holmes wrote an opinion on a sterilaztion case for The Court.

Everybody creates god in his or her image. Every notice how god hates all the people you hate? Think that is a coincidence?

Hitler and Stalin were evil people. That's why they did the things they did. We have no need for god(s) to hand down morality. In antiquity, morality was a philosophical question that people had to figure out, not something the gods wrote on tablets in fairy tales. It would be much later before human thought evolved a single god who laid down absolute values. What's funny is no one really follows those values. We wind up in discussions like this - theist trying to make themselves feel better because they sin to a lesser degree than Hitler or Stalin.

I must say I'm always thoroughly impressed when religion breaks down into a legalistic discussion.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Where is war even supported in Christian thought? It isn't. The idea of "just war" comes from Roman philosophy.

....So, Christians (merely) did it for entertainment-purposes??


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[top gun]

If you read a few more books, and vegetated in front of Youtube a bit less, you might be less ignorant.

Try
The Occult Roots of Nazism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Occult_Roots_of_Nazism

Further, even in concept, he routinely referred to Christ, yet believed in extermination of the Jews. Christ was a Jew though, and advocated the saving of Jews. Seems a contradiction, until you realize that Hitler himself was a master of propaganda. He had to used religious terms to sway the masses, regardless of individual religious views.

Religion is routinely used by leaders to sway people. Obama is a master at that.

Finally, the Nazis had a distinct atheistic belief system. For example, they believed in a superior race, which is based on atheistic evolutionary thinking. There is no god, thus we are not created in his image. Instead we are really just all animals in a natural selection struggle, and killing another human, is no more or less important than killing an ant or grasshopper. Further, killing off the weaker of the species will help the gene pool and improve us evolutionarily speaking.

This is why nazis had no problem using old, retarded and disabled people as test subjects, as well as those races considered weak. After all, they are just animals like any other. You shoot a rabid dog, you shoot a disabled man. No difference. Very atheistic.

Andy Andy Andy...

You always have to go waaaay off the tracks don't you? You had a rational point to make. That point being that people often USE religion as a stepping stone to power and then when in power morph it into something very unbecoming... even evil.

But then that actually plays right into the topic and the Anti-Theism's group's point, right? That religion is never kept pure when political gain is involved and as such must be kept SEPARATE from government.

And then waaaay waaaaay waaaaaay off the tracks you go with a blatantly cheap shot on our President of the United States of America. I recall many things like... candidate Obama was first bashed as a Muslin (lie #1) and then after that didn't stick blamed him for a statement of his Christian pastor (ridiculous #2) and all candidates from both sides are always sort of dragged into the "I'm a religious person" spotlight by the rantings of the Religious Right.

So then to act like this is somehow an "Obama" situation... come on dude!

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Where is war even supported in Christian thought? It isn't. The idea of "just war" comes from Roman philosophy.

Before that Christianity flowed directly from the Jewish scriptures which condones war in the right circumstances.

....And, managed to keep their EDGE, on a day-to-day basis.

​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Religion is routinely used by leaders to sway people.

I can't argue THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!​

 

[Dr.Who]

Well we could go all the way back to the Crusades... and count every religion based conflict from there on all the way to the current Israeli/Palestinian conflict through the Protestant/Catholic killings in Ireland, all the religion based killings in India & Asia, and on to radical Islam and the Taliban and every other religious based conflict in between and count the dead people... it would be a whole lot. It's a long time world problem of "My God is real and yours is not".

One could go further back than the crusades even.

"A recent comprehensive compilation of the history of human warfare, Encyclopedia of Wars by Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod documents 1763 wars, of which 123 have been classified to involve a religious conflict.3 So, what atheists have considered to be "most" really amounts to less than 7% of all wars. It is interesting to note that 66 of these wars (more than 50%) involved Islam, which did not even exist as a religion for the first 3,000 years of recorded human warfare."

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/war_and_religion.html#qMFDTi5fxD2V

 

[Dr.Who]

It is a moot point. There have been so many killings by religious persons who's religious dogma states that it requires/encourages peace and tolerance that only some mindless dip**** would still think that religion is a "pacifying" influence. It has never worked; It does not work. The average German soldier was a practicing Catholic, but that did not stop the Jewish, Gypsy, Russian, Homosexual, Polish, Jehovah Witness, dissident, or anyone who got in the way, purge.

I can only speak for Christianity.

You are right that some of those who claim Christianity act contrary to it. But some do not.

If the religion did not exist at all then none of them would be influenced to be peaceful and that would be a higher number than it is now.

Therefore mathematically religion is a pacifying influence just not 100%.

 

[Dr.Who]

What bothers me is that the average German soldier was an average human being by almost any standards. That says to me that any and almost all of us can be turned into servants of a state as malign as that of Nazi Germany, simply by social pressure.

I agree on two points.

1) Mankind has the capacity for evil.
2) a strong state can harness that capacity for more evil.

 

[dahermit]

If the religion did not exist at all then none of them would be influenced to be peaceful and that would be a higher number than it is now.

Therefore mathematically religion is a pacifying influence just not 100%.

Nonsense. I do not subscribe to, or follow any religious beliefs whatsoever. Yet I do not steal, do not kill, etc. Because I know that I do not want it done to me. Now before you say that that is a Biblical influence, do the research and find how many different cultures hold/held those same values without any Christian influence. The most primitive of societies had rules about such common sense rules.

Nevertheless, if you have some links to research that proves religion is a pacifying influence, I will be very happy to modify my opinion.

 

[dahermit]

I agree on two points.

1) Mankind has the capacity for evil.
2) a strong state can harness that capacity for more evil.

1) Mankind has the capacity for antisocial behavior against other persons.
2) a strong state can harness that capacity for antisocial behavior against other persons.

"Evil", the "devil", "demons", "witches", are religious superstition, concepts, not supported by scientific investigation.

 

[top gun]

One could go further back than the crusades even.

"A recent comprehensive compilation of the history of human warfare, Encyclopedia of Wars by Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod documents 1763 wars, of which 123 have been classified to involve a religious conflict.3 So, what atheists have considered to be "most" really amounts to less than 7% of all wars. It is interesting to note that 66 of these wars (more than 50%) involved Islam, which did not even exist as a religion for the first 3,000 years of recorded human warfare."

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/war_and_religion.html#qMFDTi5fxD2V

I disagree with your findings. As I said many times war and killing has been done on grand scale for multiple reasons and as such it's easy for one to pick and choose what part caused what to suit their purpose.

The fact is religion is often masqueraded out as one reason of many as a justifacation for war or just plain killing. For instance the KKK used the Protestant Christian religion along with patriotism to gain acceptance to terrorize & murder Blacks.

But regardless of the actual number of deaths directly caused by religion we know it's a lot.

Knowing this and still acting like it's no big deal reminds me of the story about the guy who asked a woman he knew if she'd have sex for a million dollars.

When she said yes, he said...

OK now that we know what kind of a person you are all we're really doing is working on the amount.


Here we have an Klan Imperial Wizard clearly stating the the main goal of the KKK is to uphold Christianity. Think about it...

 

[AtheismIsReality]

The war that killed the most Americans were fought by two god fearing republics...

 

[Dr.Who]

Nonsense. I do not subscribe to, or follow any religious beliefs whatsoever. Yet I do not steal, do not kill, etc. Because I know that I do not want it done to me. Now before you say that that is a Biblical influence, do the research and find how many different cultures hold/held those same values without any Christian influence. The most primitive of societies had rules about such common sense rules.

I was not arguing that non-religious people lack peaceful deeds.

I was arguing that to whatever extent religion does encourage peacefulness those who are influenced will be more peaceful than they would be otherwise.

Therefore mathematically if anyone is influenced to be more peaceful religion does pacify.

Nevertheless, if you have some links to research that proves religion is a pacifying influence, I will be very happy to modify my opinion.

All I would need would be the testimony of at least one person to prove my case. How about I start with me? I am a better and more peaceful person as a result of Christianity. Therefore the world is more peaceful by one person.

Are there others? Perhaps millions of others?

But I would argue more. Not only have the lives of millions of individuals been changed for the better by their own testimony and actions but they have gone on to transform the world for the better too in countless ways.

http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2005...istianity-changed-the-world-by-alvin-schmidt/

 

[Dr.Who]

The war that killed the most Americans were fought by two god fearing republics...

Do you think the Civil War was a political war or a religious war?


Doing an internet search with the terms "reasons civil war north" the first few sites describing the reasons for the civil war all failed to list any religious motivation at all as a major influence.

http://jc-schools.net/write/civil-war.htm
http://www.greatamericanhistory.net/causes.htm
http://americanhistory.about.com/od/civilwarmenu/a/cause_civil_war.htm

 

[Dr.Who]

I disagree with your findings. As I said many times war and killing has been done on grand scale for multiple reasons and as such it's easy for one to pick and choose what part caused what to suit their purpose.

The fact is religion is often masqueraded out as one reason of many as a justifacation for war or just plain killing. For instance the KKK used the Protestant Christian religion along with patriotism to gain acceptance to terrorize & murder Blacks.

But regardless of the actual number of deaths directly caused by religion we know it's a lot.

Knowing this and still acting like it's no big deal reminds me of the story about the guy who asked a woman he knew if she'd have sex for a million dollars.

When she said yes, he said...

OK now that we know what kind of a person you are all we're really doing is working on the amount.


Here we have an Klan Imperial Wizard clearly stating the the main goal of the KKK is to uphold Christianity. Think about it...

I have always admitted that the movement of Christianity has had it's faults.

But it is plain that those who want to paint religion as the cause of most wars are the ones doing the "picking and choosing" that you started this post with.

When I posted an authoritative source (an encyclopedia of war) and it lists thousands of wars and we can see that only 7% of them are religiously motivated that is not picking and choosing that is doing a thorough review.

I think it is also important to note that when Mao committed atrocities he was acting consistent with his views but many times when Christians are involved in the initiation of war they are acting contrary to their faith and thus demonstrate that they represent their own evil desires rather than the faith itself.