Why should I vote for McCain?

I would never vote for McCain. That man didn't even care enough about his wife and children to stand by them after she waited faithfully for him for over 5 years, and if he didn't care anymore for his own flesh and blood than that, how can i expect him to give a crap about me or this country for that matter?? H. Ross Perot financed McCains family while John was a POW, and he speaks out against McCain every chance he gets.

Obama may be a failure as president, but i know McCain would be a failure simply because he has vowed to keep us on the same course we are on now. Doing that would definitely make a third world country look good at the end of 4 more years of what we have now.

Just my opinion, but every one is entitled to theirs.

And that's a very good & rational opinion to have!

I don't think there's any doubt that John McCain would definitely be a John McBush when it comes to the direction this country is on... and that by all standards is bad.

In fact I'd go one step further. I think John McCain would actually like to mix it up more with other countries and try to set something he would see as his new world order. He's reminds me a lot of how Joe McCarthy witch hunted many innocent people and just plain made things up to try and fan the flames of... Communists are everywhere trying to get us, be afraid!

I sincerely think a lot of McCain's problems are psychological. Being locked up and tortured in that Vietnam prison camp has given him unresolved "issues". I think he feels he lost there and now he's venting that pent up anger & frustration. His advanced years are just making it come out even more in the forefront of his personality.

As far as Senator Obama there's one indisputable thing... he's very intelligent and has a calm, rational, even temper.
We need someone like that that and research intelligently and sort through options guiding the country to some good solutions to our many problems.

Cranky, get off my grass, thinking would only make a bad situation worse with a John McBush.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnb2IrsU1Cg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN10_6pyshQ
 
Werbung:
And that's a very good & rational opinion to have!

I don't think there's any doubt that John McCain would definitely be a John McBush when it comes to the direction this country is on... and that by all standards is bad.

In fact I'd go one step further. I think John McCain would actually like to mix it up more with other countries and try to set something he would see as his new world order. He's reminds me a lot of how Joe McCarthy witch hunted many innocent people and just plain made things up to try and fan the flames of... Communists are everywhere trying to get us, be afraid!

I sincerely think a lot of McCain's problems are psychological. Being locked up and tortured in that Vietnam prison camp has given him unresolved "issues". I think he feels he lost there and now he's venting that pent up anger & frustration. His advanced years are just making it come out even more in the forefront of his personality.

As far as Senator Obama there's one indisputable thing... he's very intelligent and has a calm, rational, even temper.
We need someone like that that and research intelligently and sort through options guiding the country to some good solutions to our many problems.

Cranky, get off my grass, thinking would only make a bad situation worse with a John McBush.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnb2IrsU1Cg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN10_6pyshQ

Their New World Order is about as scary as it gets. What i don't understand about it is this.... The ones who came up with this idea have not and will never live to see it carried out so why keep digging at it like an open sore? Don't these people care about the legacy they leave their children?
 
So scared of the "one world order" that you see as coming from the American right, yet you completely fail to notice the fact that Socialism has marched over nearly every country on EARTH and threatens to roll over America as well. America is the last basion of hope, we are the shining city on a hill. If the Leftists in America don't like the country - They can move to a more Leftist Socialist country. Once America goes socialist.... The One World Government will be complete and it will be thanks to all the leftists who fought against the Right... to keep them from doing what isn't even in their power.
 
So scared of the "one world order" that you see as coming from the American right, yet you completely fail to notice the fact that Socialism has marched over nearly every country on EARTH and threatens to roll over America as well. America is the last basion of hope, we are the shining city on a hill. If the Leftists in America don't like the country - They can move to a more Leftist Socialist country. Once America goes socialist.... The One World Government will be complete and it will be thanks to all the leftists who fought against the Right... to keep them from doing what isn't even in their power.

Most of the world's nations are not socialist. Not even China is really socialist any more.

Socialism is opposed to capitalism. It is an economic, not a political system. It doesn't work very well, so it has mostly died out.

What you're talking about is big government running people's lives, more than likely. If that is so, then the most socialistic regime in history is now in charge of the United States. Small government conservatism has gone the way of the dodo already.
 
BigRob- You make some good points which deserve being addressed but I don't have the time it deserves right now. The following will only take about 15 seconds:

Genseneca wrote:
So scared of the "one world order" that you see as coming from the American right, yet you completely fail to notice the fact that Socialism has marched over nearly every country on EARTH and threatens to roll over America as well. America is the last basion of hope, we are the shining city on a hill. If the Leftists in America don't like the country - They can move to a more Leftist Socialist country. Once America goes socialist.... The One World Government will be complete and it will be thanks to all the leftists who fought against the Right... to keep them from doing what isn't even in their power.

Saying that the leftists can leave if they don't like it is just plain stupid. The leftists will make their own choices and you won't have anything to say about it. Much more correctly though, Americans will move left in their ieology and those who are rightists will choose a more sensible approach to capitalism. You need to understand that if your country moves to the left then it will be because enough people demand it. That means that they will demand social reform and social platforms which will benefit them and give them a life which they are certainly entitled to in a rich country. At least understand that if nothing else.

You would also do well to forget your notions of a 'One World Government', whatever that's supposed to be.
 
Saying that the leftists can leave if they don't like it is just plain stupid.

Strawman...

My point was that Socialists can find a Socialist country to live in if they don't want to live under the American Capitalist system. Capitalists like myself are screwed if America goes socialist... There are NO other Capitalist countries left for me to move to.

Small government conservatism has gone the way of the dodo already.

Then I fight against the odds but its a fight worth fighting.
 
What you're talking about is big government running people's lives, more than likely. If that is so, then the most socialistic regime in history is now in charge of the United States. Small government conservatism has gone the way of the dodo already.

I think you are equating spending with "running people's lives". I do not think that this comparison is legitimate.

I believe there is a difference between government spending on a war etc as opposed to government mandating that all people buy healthcare. That is where the problem comes into play.
 
Most of the world's nations are not socialist. Not even China is really socialist any more.

Socialism is opposed to capitalism. It is an economic, not a political system. It doesn't work very well, so it has mostly died out.

What you're talking about is big government running people's lives, more than likely. If that is so, then the most socialistic regime in history is now in charge of the United States. Small government conservatism has gone the way of the dodo already.

Amazing that Gen couldn't figure that out for himself/herself! Anything to support and excuse, deny and ignore.
 
Why not, is has worked and continues to work. As you know, economics goes in cycles, the dollar has fallen some against the price of oil, but that hardly means that the US economy is weak. We have seen continued growth. It has slowed as of late, but it has gone in cycles like this for years, we are in no danger.

It won't work because the American people are not going to put up with it, that's why. I've addressed the Bear-Stearns failure on the other post and you can read it there but I will also say here that CEO's now making 400 times what their bottom worker is earning need to shoulder the responsibility. It can't be pure capitalism and strictly the individuals private business until there is a need for a bailout and then socialist measures are relied upon to fix the situation.

I think money should be earned. People want it and should go out and work for it. They should not expect a welfare state to come in and take care of them. It breeds inefficiency. You further assume in your comments about oil that the US lacks any ability to switch over to alternative fuels or to develop new technology that will lessen the demand for oil. The oil consumption rates can be maintained, as we will find new technology to ensure it as we always have. As for your book, I have not read it, but would argue that we already quite interdependent with our current system as is.

A welfare state? You told me you are in favour of a free and quality public education being provided for everyone. Most cons don't but you have made that compromise so why can't you take it a step further?

NO, I didn't assume that the US lacks any ability to switch over to alternatives. I said that the US has not been proactive because the cons didn't believe in the fact that the US doesn't have an unlimited supply in the ground and the libs are preventing you from digging it up. Now they admit that there is little to be had and shale oil or offshore is being looked at seriously. That's something that came to light in as little as two months. Amazing! If you care to try to understand what I'm talkiing about wwhen I mention interdependeance, get the book and learn all about it. I've touched on it briefly on the other thread.

There is no healthcare crisis in America. The numbers that are thrown out there are in the 30 millions, but it is ignored that many of these people are young and choose on their own not to have healthcare. Further, illegal immigrants are typically added into these figures to inflate the number and dramatize the problem. I for one do not wish to be taxed at a higher rate because someone who is here illegally to begin with wants to see a doctor.

You need to reconcile the fact that the WHO has placed your country at #37 and all the presidential candidates spoke on and acknowledged a need to fix your ailing system. Please don't try to pretend that everything is fine. Although it's certainly true that the righties were lying about fixing it and some of the lefties could have been lying too, they all acknowledged it needed to be fixed because if they didn't the people would hang their political as-es out to dry.

Further, healthcare is already free to those who cannot afford it. Medicare and SCHIP already cover the children and elderly who cannot afford medicine. Also, Federal law mandates that at a public hospital an ER cannot turn away any patient for any reason, including lack of ability to pay. So while perhaps you may feel inconvenienced that you had to go to a public ER to see a doctor for free, it was still free.

All I need do with those comments is to tell you again to reconcile the truths I presented with your claims of everything being all o.k.

As for energy independence, no we have not made preparations to make ourselves energy independent, and this is a problem, which people like Mr. Obama will make worse by taxing oil companies to death, hurting R&D. He says we cannot drill our way of the problem, which is true, but we can drill our way into more time, and in the process create more jobs for Americans and more wealth at home.

It's good that you agree that your country has made no or little preparations for the oil crunch and I've dealt in more depth on the other thread on the fact that it's been the right who didn't believe in oil being in limited supply. It's the right which has continuously made the charge that the left has prevented new oil exploration and drilling. Isn't it funny how that is now lost in the shuffle! Now they can only squeal about ANWR even though it's a mere drop in the bucket. I think we're pretty much onside together on this issue in any case. I think you're wrong on Obama but I have nothing at stake to cause me to argue for him. Yes, you can drill yourself into more time but is it significant? I would suggest to you that you're playing politics if you try to suggest that it is.

I agree that Obama cannot end the war, I fear however that he will anyway. The only reason Obama can even speak of a pullout to begin with was because McCain fought for the surge (which Obama opposed).

I can't quite understand how you can say that Obama can't end the war but you think he will anyway. You lost me on that one! As for the surge, there should have never been a war to start with and there shouldn't have been a surge either. Your country is immersed in an unwinnable war and is unable to leave Iraq in the foreseeable future because Iran will make Iraq part of their sphere of influence. They will not give up and there is good reason why the US can't possibly go to war with Iraq. I'm betting it won't happen because Iran will block Hormuz, among other strategic targets, drive up oil to aournd $12/gallon and your country is toast.

As for the "problems" overtaking our country. I assume you mean the war, energy, healthcare etc. I have already discussed healthcare, so here is my thought on the war.
I've addresed them all too, especiallly your views on healthcare but I have neglected to comment on that fact that people are being bankrupted daily enmass for lack of appropriate insurance. There's a lot more to say if you choose to follow that line later.

You cannot set timetables or any guidelines such as that. You must maintain stability in Iraq and give the government there a chance to work. We must continue to train ISF forces because the local populations look more legitimately on operations when they take the lead, as they have been increasingly doing. A phase out will come, but to just assign a time 16 months from now is naive and irresponsible.

Don't worry, it won't happen and I've told you why. But you need to come to terms with the Iraqi government demanding a timeline. Their priority is now proving to be to rid their country of the occupation and being able to stand up with their own forces is secondary. Nay, not even a consideration when the truth is told. Obama's talk with Maliki put the lid on that malarkey yesterday and it's going to make that old rhetoric a laughing matter. Your country just needs to be creative and force further occupation on the Iraqi people and it's government. Maliki will fold. Don't worry, it will be accomplished because it has to be.

I agree completely. But that speaks to the character of Obama more than anything. I understand the situation in Iraq quite well, as you say you owned a business I have a BA and MA in foreign relations fields.

Come on pal, none of them has any character and no politician will let a lack of character get in the way. If the truth was known you would most likely find that McCain was a songbird in Vietnam, just as charged by his comrades in arms. I have no stake in building or destroying the repuation of eithe of them you know. Thanks for sharing your credentials. Sorry if you have no interest in mine.

This goes to show me that Obama is a man of no character and will say anything that it takes to get elected, and then do whatever he wants, most of which I disagree with to begin with.

Both have no character in my estimation and McCain has less of the two. He's flipflopped all over the place and is flapping in the breeze. Big deal! You Americans have created such a wonderful system which completely molds your politicians into liars and thieves. Canada's not much better if it's any consolation to you.


Obama is a change indeed, but after saying you openly think the man is outright lying to the American public, how do you turn around and think he means a word of his "change" message. Obama is no change, he is more of the same, with worse policies.

I think he will be afraid to go back on all of his promises and especially a fix for the healthcare system. Mainly because I believe that the people demand it. If he is president with anything near the estimate of the landslide in congress then I think it's inevitable. 'If' he becomes pres there are other promises which I believe the people will hold him to but I also feel that he is in favour of a lot of changes which you cons are not going to like one bit.

I think he's smart enough to understand that he can't end your Iraq war so I think he's a liar on that count. Although I wouldn't bet money on that one.
 
SHALL REAGAN CONSERVATIVES EXPEL PODHORETZ NEO-CONS

Insane McCain is the Podhoretz Neo-Con supporting the un-constitutional McCain-Feingold suppression of internet freedom of speech, the immoral sacrificial killing of children by their mothers, the treasonous amnesty for illegal Mexican immigrants, outsourcing of manufacturing jobs to China, and the un-patriotic sacrifice of the wealth and blood of the American People in un-constitutional wars supporting the Israeli Judeofascist Land Robbers.

Shall such Podhoretz Neo-Con traitors against God and Constitution be justly expelled from the Republican Party by the Reagan Conservatives; or shall they be allowed to continue to subvert it? Shall insane McCain have a date for the presidency; or shall he have date for the Conservative Republican firing squad?

Google: Mearsheimer Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy; Stricherz Why the Democrats are Blue; Wall Street Journal McCain-Feingold; Evans Blackmailed by History: Untold Story of Senator Joseph McCarthy, Human Events Ron Paul Interview; Who Would the World Elect; and, McClelland "What Happened: Inside the Bush White House and Washington's Culture of Deception"; and Abramoff Israel McCain; Sharon to Perez We Control America.
 
It won't work because the American people are not going to put up with it, that's why. I've addressed the Bear-Stearns failure on the other post and you can read it there but I will also say here that CEO's now making 400 times what their bottom worker is earning need to shoulder the responsibility. It can't be pure capitalism and strictly the individuals private business until there is a need for a bailout and then socialist measures are relied upon to fix the situation.

We have had bailouts before, and yet here we are. The people do want a permanent government fix, short term bailouts have become acceptable sadly, but that does not translate into a mass denouncement of capitalist ideals by the American people in my mind.

As for salaries, I do not care that the CEO makes 400 times more than the bottom worker. The bottom worker is most likely a janitor making minimum wage who did not go to school (which was free). I wold openly argue that the CEO is 400 times more valuable than the janitor, and should be paid accordingly.

A welfare state? You told me you are in favour of a free and quality public education being provided for everyone. Most cons don't but you have made that compromise so why can't you take it a step further?

I will not take it a step further. I am in favor of having free public schools. That said you are not entitled to anything because of that education. You must make the most of your education and get a job on your own.

I am not convinced that all conservatives are against public school, from what I understand of the argument they are against the government mandating what public school they must attend. Their argument is to take the property tax that pays for schools in many places and instead have the parents use that to pay for school. The premise is the same, and creates the same problems I think as the system now, so I prefer to stick with what we have.

In my mind asking to take everything a "step" further is ridiculous. Why not take health laws a step further and ban smoking and alcohol. Why not take pollution prevention a step further and ban all driving?

NO, I didn't assume that the US lacks any ability to switch over to alternatives. I said that the US has not been proactive because the cons didn't believe in the fact that the US doesn't have an unlimited supply in the ground and the libs are preventing you from digging it up. Now they admit that there is little to be had and shale oil or offshore is being looked at seriously. That's something that came to light in as little as two months. Amazing! If you care to try to understand what I'm talkiing about wwhen I mention interdependeance, get the book and learn all about it. I've touched on it briefly on the other thread.

I am not going to read the book, I simply do not have the time right now with work. That said, I think the reason no one in the United States cared much about alternative energy is because the price of gas was $1.50, not because they were somehow unaware that one day oil would run out.

Oil shale and offshore are being looked at seriously because it is now potentially profitable. Oil shale is much more expensive to get out of the ground, so why bother when gas was $2.00? People knew about these deposits long before two months ago, there was just no incentive or reason to take the oil out of them before.

You need to reconcile the fact that the WHO has placed your country at #37 and all the presidential candidates spoke on and acknowledged a need to fix your ailing system. Please don't try to pretend that everything is fine. Although it's certainly true that the righties were lying about fixing it and some of the lefties could have been lying too, they all acknowledged it needed to be fixed because if they didn't the people would hang their political as-es out to dry.

It can be fixed. It should be opened back up to individual buyers. Not these government mandated HMO monopolies. That is bad for business and bad for prices.

And as I mentioned earlier, you need to explain how anyone in this country does not have access to healthcare, because as I explained they all do, or it was a personal choice that caused them to not get insurance.


All I need do with those comments is to tell you again to reconcile the truths I presented with your claims of everything being all o.k.

I am not sure what "truths" you presented, but I laid out how every American can have access to healthcare as it is, so what exactly is the huge "crisis".

It's good that you agree that your country has made no or little preparations for the oil crunch and I've dealt in more depth on the other thread on the fact that it's been the right who didn't believe in oil being in limited supply. It's the right which has continuously made the charge that the left has prevented new oil exploration and drilling. Isn't it funny how that is now lost in the shuffle! Now they can only squeal about ANWR even though it's a mere drop in the bucket. I think we're pretty much onside together on this issue in any case. I think you're wrong on Obama but I have nothing at stake to cause me to argue for him. Yes, you can drill yourself into more time but is it significant? I would suggest to you that you're playing politics if you try to suggest that it is.

I could care less what party decides to drill, but to assume you have to only go after alternative fuels (long term solutions) with no short term fixed (such a pumping) is moronic. Increasing the supply will lower the price in the short term, I fail to see how this is a bad idea. And for the record, the question of drilling in ANWR is not new, it has been debated in this country for well over a decade, it just has more importance placed on it now.

I can't quite understand how you can say that Obama can't end the war but you think he will anyway. You lost me on that one! As for the surge, there should have never been a war to start with and there shouldn't have been a surge either. Your country is immersed in an unwinnable war and is unable to leave Iraq in the foreseeable future because Iran will make Iraq part of their sphere of influence. They will not give up and there is good reason why the US can't possibly go to war with Iraq. I'm betting it won't happen because Iran will block Hormuz, among other strategic targets, drive up oil to aournd $12/gallon and your country is toast.

I mean that he should not end the war, but I fear that he will regardless. Arguing that there should never have been a surge because there should never have been a war is lunacy. We have to accept the fact that regardless of if there should or should be a war, there actually is a war and how to win it needs to be addressed. I think McCain addressed that with the surge, while Obama has stuck to arbitrary timelines.

I've addresed them all too, especiallly your views on healthcare but I have neglected to comment on that fact that people are being bankrupted daily enmass for lack of appropriate insurance. There's a lot more to say if you choose to follow that line later.

People are bankrupted to because they lose their job, I suppose we should government mandate that no one can be fired right?

Don't worry, it won't happen and I've told you why. But you need to come to terms with the Iraqi government demanding a timeline. Their priority is now proving to be to rid their country of the occupation and being able to stand up with their own forces is secondary. Nay, not even a consideration when the truth is told. Obama's talk with Maliki put the lid on that malarkey yesterday and it's going to make that old rhetoric a laughing matter. Your country just needs to be creative and force further occupation on the Iraqi people and it's government. Maliki will fold. Don't worry, it will be accomplished because it has to be.

Yes, Iraq has been calling for a timeline, but you will notice that Maliki then runs to the UN and asks for the mission to be extended. He is a politician as well, and there remains a lot of disagreement in the Iraqi government about the US troop presence. Maliki wants to keep his job, so he pushes for Iraq to take over, but at the same times knows that they cannot take over at this point, so then asks the UN to extend the mission and continues to talk about "conditions on the ground." He is balancing his own political situation.
 
We have had bailouts before, and yet here we are. The people do want a permanent government fix, short term bailouts have become acceptable sadly, but that does not translate into a mass denouncement of capitalist ideals by the American people in my mind.

We agree that it is sad. I didn't go so far to say that it was a a mass denouncement of capitalist ideals. In fact it's very obvious that the American people were very opposed to it.

As for salaries, I do not care that the CEO makes 400 times more than the bottom worker. The bottom worker is most likely a janitor making minimum wage who did not go to school (which was free). I wold openly argue that the CEO is 400 times more valuable than the janitor, and should be paid accordingly.

I should have mentioned that it used to be 20 times the bottom worker but I don't know if that were true just prior to Bush2. I think it was 90's. The point is of course that it has rapidly increased during the Bush terms. I'll search it out when I get time.

I will not take it a step further. I am in favor of having free public schools. That said you are not entitled to anything because of that education. You must make the most of your education and get a job on your own.

Agreed and Canadians don't suppose otherwise as far as I know.

I am not convinced that all conservatives are against public school, from what I understand of the argument they are against the government mandating what public school they must attend. Their argument is to take the property tax that pays for schools in many places and instead have the parents use that to pay for school. The premise is the same, and creates the same problems I think as the system now, so I prefer to stick with what we have.

You're a conservative and you're not. But you need to be aware that the coservative ideal is private schools and charter schools.

In my mind asking to take everything a "step" further is ridiculous. Why not take health laws a step further and ban smoking and alcohol. Why not take pollution prevention a step further and ban all driving?

Your examples aren't reasonable but where we may have some grounds for debate is in mandating that seatbelts be used by all drivers. Or helmets be worn by all motorcycle operators. Or pollution control devices by the law on all cars. Or speed limits must be put in place and enforced. They are all steps further.

I am not going to read the book, I simply do not have the time right now with work. That said, I think the reason no one in the United States cared much about alternative energy is because the price of gas was $1.50, not because they were somehow unaware that one day oil would run out.

Reading the book would be helpful but I appreciate your time constraints. It will leave us at a loss to understand each other a little though.

Oil shale and offshore are being looked at seriously because it is now potentially profitable. Oil shale is much more expensive to get out of the ground, so why bother when gas was $2.00? People knew about these deposits long before two months ago, there was just no incentive or reason to take the oil out of them before.

US companies have been pouring money into the Alberta tarsands projects since before 99 in earnest. Why not your own shale oil deposits? Are you sure they are even a profitable enterprise now? Beware of the politics! And beware of the politics of offshore oil too! I would suggest to you that in both cases the reason for no exploration has been the same all along. No moratorium will stand in the way of profit.

It can be fixed. It should be opened back up to individual buyers. Not these government mandated HMO monopolies. That is bad for business and bad for prices.

It can be fixed but I think government intervention is the writing on the wall.

And as I mentioned earlier, you need to explain how anyone in this country does not have access to healthcare, because as I explained they all do, or it was a personal choice that caused them to not get insurance.

You can't admit that it needs to be fixed without admitting that the system isnot serving the people to a high enough level of quality and accessibility. We have already discussed the shortfalls elsewhere and how it's hurting people. bankruptcies, choosing to not see a doctor, infant mortality rate, etc.

I am not sure what "truths" you presented, but I laid out how every American can have access to healthcare as it is, so what exactly is the huge "crisis".

Ask the American people, they are the ones who are asking for it to be fixed and are demanding it be enough to cause all pres hopefuls to address the issue.

I could care less what party decides to drill, but to assume you have to only go after alternative fuels (long term solutions) with no short term fixed (such a pumping) is moronic. Increasing the supply will lower the price in the short term, I fail to see how this is a bad idea. And for the record, the question of drilling in ANWR is not new, it has been debated in this country for well over a decade, it just has more importance placed on it now.

Agreed. But beware of the large likelyhood of going back to a reliance on oil because that could become more affordable with more drilling and exploration and production. Assuming that's even timely and possible. The first priority of capitalists is to make more money now and to hell with the future. ANWR is a red herring and even McCain doesn't want to go there.

I mean that he should not end the war, but I fear that he will regardless. Arguing that there should never have been a surge because there should never have been a war is lunacy. We have to accept the fact that regardless of if there should or should be a war, there actually is a war and how to win it needs to be addressed. I think McCain addressed that with the surge, while Obama has stuck to arbitrary timelines.

It wasn't a surge, it was an increase in forces and you're still surging now and will probably continue to surge for a while. Obama won't end your war but there's little doubt that the Iraqi people and the Iraqi government want it ended. Bush promised he would when asked. He won't and never did intend to. At least you can be honest enough to admit that now Rob!

People are bankrupted to because they lose their job, I suppose we should government mandate that no one can be fired right?

Stats show medical related problems the largest cause of bankruptcies in your country.

Yes, Iraq has been calling for a timeline, but you will notice that Maliki then runs to the UN and asks for the mission to be extended. He is a politician as well, and there remains a lot of disagreement in the Iraqi government about the US troop presence. Maliki wants to keep his job, so he pushes for Iraq to take over, but at the same times knows that they cannot take over at this point, so then asks the UN to extend the mission and continues to talk about "conditions on the ground." He is balancing his own political situation.

Read all the latest news at antiwar.com

Malike has turncoated on your country and he needs to now be convinced to change his mind again. Antiwar.com has several articles which explain how the US is now in negotions with Maliki's gov. I think the US will succedd again in convincing him that he will have to change his mind, at least publicly. Blackmail or whatever it takes. That would be a real winner for McCain.
 
I should have mentioned that it used to be 20 times the bottom worker but I don't know if that were true just prior to Bush2. I think it was 90's. The point is of course that it has rapidly increased during the Bush terms. I'll search it out when I get time.

I think that even if you do away with everything that the CEO makes it still makes no difference in the price of anything. For example if you took every Oil companies CEO's pay and put it in a fund to reduce the price of gas, gas would not fall 1 cent.

You're a conservative and you're not. But you need to be aware that the coservative ideal is private schools and charter schools.

I thought it was just school choice. I went to private school my entire life, I really do not know much about public schools.


US companies have been pouring money into the Alberta tarsands projects since before 99 in earnest. Why not your own shale oil deposits? Are you sure they are even a profitable enterprise now? Beware of the politics! And beware of the politics of offshore oil too! I would suggest to you that in both cases the reason for no exploration has been the same all along. No moratorium will stand in the way of profit.

It was because oil shale mining is not the most environmentally friendly and the drillers lost that battle.

Also, has been estimated that with the technology we had previously oil would have to go as high as $400 a barrel to make it competitive. Shell has new tech that they estimate can make it competitive at $130 dollars. Still not a good return.

Agreed. But beware of the large likelyhood of going back to a reliance on oil because that could become more affordable with more drilling and exploration and production. Assuming that's even timely and possible. The first priority of capitalists is to make more money now and to hell with the future. ANWR is a red herring and even McCain doesn't want to go there.

I do not think that there is much risk of this given what people are seeing now. People will openly support alternative development, they just want and need short term relief.

It wasn't a surge, it was an increase in forces and you're still surging now and will probably continue to surge for a while. Obama won't end your war but there's little doubt that the Iraqi people and the Iraqi government want it ended. Bush promised he would when asked. He won't and never did intend to. At least you can be honest enough to admit that now Rob!

The surge has already ended. All combat soldiers who were sent in for the surge have left Iraq.

Malike has turncoated on your country and he needs to now be convinced to change his mind again. Antiwar.com has several articles which explain how the US is now in negotions with Maliki's gov. I think the US will succedd again in convincing him that he will have to change his mind, at least publicly. Blackmail or whatever it takes. That would be a real winner for McCain.

I still interpret his actions as playing politics in Iraq. He wants us to leave, but behind the scenes still wants us to stay to ensure safety.
 
I think that even if you do away with everything that the CEO makes it still makes no difference in the price of anything. For example if you took every Oil companies CEO's pay and put it in a fund to reduce the price of gas, gas would not fall 1 cent.

It's not just CEO's in America, it's the quintiles which reflect wage distribution and the increase in renumeration to the top which is out of balance in the US. The 400/1 ratio is not common to other countries.

I thought it was just school choice. I went to private school my entire life, I really do not know much about public schools.

Most people don't have the funds to afford the luxury of a choice. And private schools are undoubtedly better but that needs to be fixed.

It was because oil shale mining is not the most environmentally friendly and the drillers lost that battle.

The environmental impact is a fact but it's because of the amount of energy expended to produce the oil. It's the same as the tarsands oil or at least similar. Alberta is ignoring the environmental impact at the moment.

Also, has been estimated that with the technology we had previously oil would have to go as high as $400 a barrel to make it competitive. Shell has new tech that they estimate can make it competitive at $130 dollars. Still not a good return.

For now I'll defer to you figures but I would like to see some evidence. My experience in the tarsands established that they could mine it for about $14/barrel and that's the point at which it became a successful enterprise. I believe that's true because Syncrude and Suncor were being expanded when oil was around $25/barrel.

The surge has already ended. All combat soldiers who were sent in for the surge have left Iraq.

I have trouble accepting that when the level of troops has been maintained at 160,000.

I still interpret his actions as playing politics in Iraq. He wants us to leave, but behind the scenes still wants us to stay to ensure safety.

I have not trouble at all accepting that Obama can't bring the troops out of Iraq because I have always known that it's all for Iraq's oil. So he's a phoney, but you need to understand that McCain is just as much a phoney for claiming that the US is in Iraq to fight terrorism. Terrorism which didn't even exist in Iraq before the war. This is not a reason to support or not support either of them of course. It perhaps can be used to McCain's advantage if he can make his claims stick on pulling out will be losing the war. But the other side of the coin is that the American people want out soon. We'll see won't we.
 
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It's not just CEO's in America, it's the quintiles which reflect wage distribution and the increase in renumeration to the top which is out of balance in the US. The 400/1 ratio is not common to other countries.

CEO's are worth more and do a harder job. I am sick of hearing politicians talking about how we need to help the "hard working American" and then blaming problems on the rich. I suppose a Doctor is not hardworking? A CEO is certainly hardworking. You are punishing success when you penalize the guy who went to school, studied hard, got good grades and got a good job just because he got a good job, and it is unfair.

Most people don't have the funds to afford the luxury of a choice. And private schools are undoubtedly better but that needs to be fixed.

This is why I was in support of school vouchers.

For now I'll defer to you figures but I would like to see some evidence. My experience in the tarsands established that they could mine it for about $14/barrel and that's the point at which it became a successful enterprise. I believe that's true because Syncrude and Suncor were being expanded when oil was around $25/barrel.

I just looked at wikipedia and had numbers that were similar to what I posted, so I will stick with them. (I did get these numbers elsewhere though).

From what I understand about Oil Shale and the Tar Sands, the extraction process is different, which can account for the price difference.

I have trouble accepting that when the level of troops has been maintained at 160,000.

The last of the surge soldiers left Iraq July 15th. They had been leaving since March.

There are currently 156,000 US soldiers in Iraq. Of these 94,000 are in the army and 24,000 are Marines. The rest are Airforce and Navy. There are contractors being used to make up the difference in the counter-insurgency.


I have not trouble at all accepting that Obama can't bring the troops out of Iraq because I have always known that it's all for Iraq's oil. So he's a phoney, but you need to understand that McCain is just as much a phoney for claiming that the US is in Iraq to fight terrorism. Terrorism which didn't even exist in Iraq before the war. This is not a reason to support or not support either of them of course. It perhaps can be used to McCain's advantage if he can make his claims stick on pulling out will be losing the war. But the other side of the coin is that the American people want out soon. We'll see won't we.

It is not all for the oil. If it was for the oil we simply could have expanded oil for food and avoided any kind of war. If the reason was simply oil, there would have been no reason to fight.
 
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