Why not a national sales tax instead?

Lagboltz said:
You just have to remember the total amount Americans spent in 2008 was $4.4 T. There would not be enough revenue to substitute for the income tax revenue of $1.03 T unless the average sales tax is 12.2%. That is way too much for the lowest 50% of the population.
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Do you agree the cost of items would go down some if for no other reason than because there is no more fed taxes for hiring an employee. I don't know how much it would go down but stuff would have to go down.
 
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Pandora said:
no my premise is that i hate the current tax system that thinks some should do nothing but get a check back and some should pay far more than others and some should pay a little.

forcing someone to pay more because they made it so someone who never bothered to even try to make it could get something back that they never put into it is just so wrong on so many levels.

at least with a sales tax we could decide how much we want to contribute based on what items we want to buy.
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so your against a progressive tax because it taxes those who have done the best...yet support a regressive tax that punishes those who have the least?

The rich pay more taxes...they also get more for there taxes.
 
pocketfullofshells said:
so your against a progressive tax because it taxes those who have done the best...yet support a regressive tax that punishes those who have the least?

The rich pay more taxes...they also get more for there taxes.
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Exactly. The poor do not own cars - they have no need for the Interstate Highway System. They have no need for the FFA, National Parks, a military, or state colleges & universities.
 
pocketfullofshells said:
so make 10,000 a year pay 1500...

make a 100,000 a pay 15000..

rich still pay more

If you want equal pay then you should under the current system you want tax hikes because the rich do not pay equally.
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Absurd justification for tax hikes...but typical.

Who's fault is it that there are inequities in the tax system?

How about we eliminate all those inequities and have a fair and just tax system instead of the stupid system we have now?

But, as I stated before, a fair and just system is NOT what libs want. They like the progressive tax system, which they use to penalize productive Americans.

If they did a poll of libs, they would find that a majority of them think the answer to ALL our economic problems is increasing taxes on the rich. They hate the rich as all leftists have throughout history. It is thinking with your emotions rather than your brain, which is a common trait of libs.
 
Pandora said:
I support the idea that we all pay equally

all pay 10 percent or all pay 15 percent
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What do you mean by "all pay" The latest figures show that 45% of Americans pay no taxes because of exemptions.Then the flat tax would do the most harm to the middle class which will have a larger burden supporting the lower class. The rich would have little burden.

Do you think exemptions should be eliminated?
 
pocketfullofshells said:
SO work vehicles are not luxury cars? Truckers should pay huge taxes so they have the joy of hauling our crap around? A work truck/van?

Also do you want a system that says...buy a car...but if you buy It would be best you don't buy a luxury one ( the ones that car companies make the most money on)? I am sure that would go over well with the auto industry thats just trying to get back on its feet. Create a artificial price point that all of the sudden...I am buying a 38000 care, but If I add the sunroof, leather seats and a nice sound system...all of the sudden my car not only cost 2000 more...but I have to pay a new tax rate? well screw it skip the extras then ( you know the options that make the money for the car company's)

Does public transportation count limo rides?

Perfume is a luxury? is that just the 300 buck bottle or the 30 buck one my Gf likes? does it count 10 buck knock offs?

Food is taxed at the low rate...what about fast food? same rate as the grocery store or Restaurant? If I go to 7 stake house for a 80 buck steak...do I pay a higher tax rate?

1st class airfare? ok but not 2nd? so what if I just call out best seats 2nd class? or something else?

why should gas and water not be taxed? do we want to make it easy for companies to just use up resources and drain the local water supply and drain the power system with huge volumes of it at no extra cost?

Is my 27 inch tube tv one tax rate and the 60 inch LED 3D 1080i the same?

by the time you guys are done, I will have to hire a accountant to go with my when I shop.
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Obviously "work vehicles" such as big trucks or company vehicles are "business expenses" and would not be paid out of people's income!

And, anyone would still have the choice to purchase expensive vehicles, it would be THEIR CHOICE only, whether they want to pay more or less taxes. You can get a very decent car, with leather seat, moon roof, and all the wissels well under $40,000 (Honda and Toyota are two examples).

Perfume? Does any one find it a necessity of life? I sure don't! In fact, many people are allergic to it, even when others wear it. . .so they would just be more expensive. . .you may have to pay $33 for your girl friend's cheap perfume. . .what is $3.00 when you're in love (and you can afford it!).

And, obviously, when I talk about "public transportation," I am talking about metro, trains, buses, not "limo ride."

Utilities (gas, electricity, water) are necessity of life. . . unless you choose to take your shower in the rain? Obviously, if you choose to BUY bottled water, then you would pay a tax on that! And if you drink filtered water from your fridge, you would pay tax on the filter, but not on the water!

But, no need to get aggressive. . . this is just a vague idea, that will never be adopted. . . although a similar system already exist in Europe and has been built into the VAT (or TVA) tax, which is basically a sales tax that is included in the purchase of items and is part of the price, not "added" at the cash register. It just shows on the bill of sale the level of taxing included in the price of the item. But it did NOT replace personal income tax!
 
Lagboltz said:
What do you mean by "all pay" The latest figures show that 45% of Americans pay no taxes because of exemptions.Then the flat tax would do the most harm to the middle class which will have a larger burden supporting the lower class. The rich would have little burden.

Do you think exemptions should be eliminated?
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Yes, that is the problem but I think its a higher amount that pay no tax and some of those people actually get money they never paid from IRS via the earned income credit. As obama says .... We all need to have some skin in the game.

The rich should not support the poor and the middle class shouldn't support the poor, the poor should support their self. There are some exceptions but in general I believe this.
 
ProudLefty said:
Exactly. The poor do not own cars - they have no need for the Interstate Highway System. They have no need for the FFA, National Parks, a military, or state colleges & universities.
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Where do you live?

The poor here have cars, the majority of people who don't drive cars here are the people who are afraid of global warming. They are into the bus and bike riding, we are a huge bike riding community.

but it's not because they are poor, it's a lifestyle choice

Eugene might not be a place where really poor are, we don't have any slums or anything
 
Pandora said:
Yes, that is the problem but I think its a higher amount that pay no tax and some of those people actually get money they never paid from IRS via the earned income credit. As obama says .... We all need to have some skin in the game.

The rich should not support the poor and the middle class shouldn't support the poor, the poor should support their self. There are some exceptions but in general I believe this.
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10% flat tax won't bring in the equivalent revenue we have today, it has to be closer to 15%. So you are promoting that a minimum wage person making $15,000 would have to pay $2,250 more than they are now.

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, approximately 43.6 million Americans were living in absolute poverty in 2009, and you say let them support themselves? Sure they will: car jacking, armed robbery, b&e, prostitution, drug dealing, etc. They will spend time in jail if caught, and we the tax payers will support them with jail costs averaging $20,000 a year, which is ironically $5000 above minimum wage.

Flat taxes won't work.
 
Lagboltz said:
10% flat tax won't bring in the equivalent revenue we have today, it has to be closer to 15%. So you are promoting that a minimum wage person making $15,000 would have to pay $2,250 more than they are now.

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, approximately 43.6 million Americans were living in absolute poverty in 2009, and you say let them support themselves? Sure they will: car jacking, armed robbery, b&e, prostitution, drug dealing, etc. They will spend time in jail if caught, and we the tax payers will support them with jail costs averaging $20,000 a year, which is ironically $5000 above minimum wage.

Flat taxes won't work.
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You are right that a flat tax wont work and the flat tax is not a fair tax for all Americans

The thing I proposed isn't a flat tax, just a sales tax but I don't think it will work either.

I am against the idea of forcing some to pay others to keep them from jacking cars. But I sure don't know the answer :(
 
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Pandora said:
You are right that a flat tax wont work and the flat tax is not a fair tax for all Americans

The thing I proposed isn't a flat tax, just a sales tax but I don't think it will work either.

I am against the idea of forcing some to pay others to keep them from jacking cars. But I sure don't know the answer :(
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Well, you are not alone. You get lots of different answers from a wide diversity of Americans in different situations. I don't think there is a single answer that everyone will think is fair. As politicians try to create their idea of a fair code, we now have a tax code of over 71 thousand pages. Can you imagine putting that on your bookshelf.
 

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