Who Shouldnt Have Guns?

[Mare Tranquillity]

A normally distributed statistical field has a confidence level equal to integral increments of the standard deviation.

If your rifle shoots outside this tolerance limit, it means that the optical axis of your telescope is deflected from the axis of your barrel -- hence the need to adjust the scope.

Duh?

Not being a gun-dummy, I was curious if, in your opinion, Nums, priests exceed the standard deviation when having sex with kids. Maybe you could scope it out and see if your tolerance limit will allow you to reflect on the issue at hand.

 

[jerm19d]

Wow.....I am in the military and I have the opinion that some military people SHOULD not be aloud to have firearms. The reason being is you are trained more on the firearm than most civilians. And all it takes is a former vet to have a flashback of a traumatic event to snap and start using that firearm that he was trained in. I am also a police officer and I say that the laws that the government has laid out work fine. The problem is they have to get they illegal weapons off the street. Once that is done you should see a serious drop in Gun crimes.

 

[Bunz]

A normally distributed statistical field has a confidence level equal to integral increments of the standard deviation.

If your rifle shoots outside this tolerance limit, it means that the optical axis of your telescope is deflected from the axis of your barrel -- hence the need to adjust the scope.

Duh?

Ah welcome back Nums,

It is slightly more complicated than that. Or at least the causes for that to happen vary widely where it isnt always a simple diagnosis. A scope or rifle that is jarred can move slightly enough in many different ways to throw off the accuracy one is attempting to attain.

The clicks on the scope can move, the scope itself can move, the stock can shrink and expand due to humidity alone, much less dropping it in the field etc. Temperature and weather variations like the humidity I mentioned before can do interesting things to the accuracy of a rifle.
And last and often the most likely reason is the inperfection in humans. Accuracy on a hyper level of say 1/2inch groups at 100 yards, is either luck or the combination of a very skiller shooter and an exceptional rifle.

 

[Bunz]

Wow.....I am in the military and I have the opinion that some military people SHOULD not be aloud to have firearms. The reason being is you are trained more on the firearm than most civilians. And all it takes is a former vet to have a flashback of a traumatic event to snap and start using that firearm that he was trained in. I am also a police officer and I say that the laws that the government has laid out work fine. The problem is they have to get they illegal weapons off the street. Once that is done you should see a serious drop in Gun crimes.

What country are you from?

Id like to know what you define as an illegal gun?

 

[PLC1]

A normally distributed statistical field has a confidence level equal to integral increments of the standard deviation.

If your rifle shoots outside this tolerance limit, it means that the optical axis of your telescope is deflected from the axis of your barrel -- hence the need to adjust the scope.

Duh?

If your rifle shoots outside of the "normally distributed statistical field" ie., shoots all over the target and sometimes misses it entirely, the fault is likely not the rifle at all, but the marksman. It takes practice to hit what you're aiming at. If it consistently hits low, high, right, or left, then it's time to adjust the sight.

It takes practice with a shotgun, too. I made a little video of myself testing out a sweet new shotgun.

Here I am: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6bKbqSdNEc






And, if you believe that is me, I have some Arizona ocean view land you might be interested in.

 

[dahermit]

A normally distributed statistical field has a confidence level equal to integral increments of the standard deviation.

If your rifle shoots outside this tolerance limit, it means that the optical axis of your telescope is deflected from the axis of your barrel -- hence the need to adjust the scope.

Duh?

I asked for a detailed explanation of how standard deviation is used to zero in a rifle. You supplied statistical jargon.

Let's start again. "A normally distributed statistical field has a confidence level equal to integral increments of the standard deviation." ("tolerance limit")equals what number?

Lets say that I shoot a five shot group on a target at 100 yards and use the bottom of a one-inch bull as the aiming point. The center of the group( the group has an 2 inch diameter), prints two inches low and four inches to the left of the aiming point( I know this because the concentric rings surrounding the bull are one inch apart). I compensate by adjusting the elevation scope adjustment by 8 clicks of adjustment (1/4 inch per click on hunting scope) plus another 8 clicks so that the rifle will print two inches high from the point of aim at 100 yards.

For the windage adjustment, I turn the adjustment 16 clicks right windage.

Now Nummy, how did I need to use standard deviation to adjust the scope?

 

[dahermit]

I asked for a detailed explanation of how standard deviation is used to zero in a rifle. You supplied statistical jargon.

Let's start again. "A normally distributed statistical field has a confidence level equal to integral increments of the standard deviation." ("tolerance limit")equals what number?

Lets say that I shoot a five shot group on a target at 100 yards and use the bottom of a one-inch bull as the aiming point. The center of the group( the group has an 2 inch diameter), prints two inches low and four inches to the left of the aiming point( I know this because the concentric rings surrounding the bull are one inch apart). I compensate by adjusting the elevation scope adjustment by 8 clicks of adjustment (1/4 inch per click on hunting scope) plus another 8 clicks so that the rifle will print two inches high from the point of aim at 100 yards.

For the windage adjustment, I turn the adjustment 16 clicks right windage.

Now Nummy, how did I need to use standard deviation to adjust the scope?

Nummy, you come back here and play!

 

[numinus]

Sigh

In all physical measurements, there are three distinct sources of error - human, systematic, and random.

Human error is self explanatory.

Systematic errors are those errors coming from the instrument, assuming constant environmental factors.

Random errors are the those that result from the uncertainty inherent in the degree of precision of the instrument. It is the error related to the standard deviation which is formally defined as the root mean square of the deviations of all measurments from their arithmetical mean. In nature, this type of error CAN NEVER BE ELIMINATED.

So, if you exceed this pre-determined area of dispersion defined by the standard deviation, the difference would be due to either systematic or human error -- and thus can be adjusted accordingly.

Logical, isn't it?

 

[numinus]

I asked for a detailed explanation of how standard deviation is used to zero in a rifle. You supplied statistical jargon.

Let's start again. "A normally distributed statistical field has a confidence level equal to integral increments of the standard deviation." ("tolerance limit")equals what number?

Lets say that I shoot a five shot group on a target at 100 yards and use the bottom of a one-inch bull as the aiming point. The center of the group( the group has an 2 inch diameter), prints two inches low and four inches to the left of the aiming point( I know this because the concentric rings surrounding the bull are one inch apart). I compensate by adjusting the elevation scope adjustment by 8 clicks of adjustment (1/4 inch per click on hunting scope) plus another 8 clicks so that the rifle will print two inches high from the point of aim at 100 yards.

For the windage adjustment, I turn the adjustment 16 clicks right windage.

Now Nummy, how did I need to use standard deviation to adjust the scope?

The standard deviation is related to the degree of precision of your scope, which you said, is 1/4 inch per click at a designated horizontal distance. This would increase proportionately as your target goes nearer or farther. So, you have just used the standard deviation to determine the amount of systematic error attributable to your scope.

Duh?

 

[numinus]

Nummy, you come back here and play!

Spectrum® Survey 3.30 Network Adjustment Report
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Project: C:\Program Files\Sokkia\Common\Spectrum Projects\apr3.spr

Coordinate System: GEO [Geographic] Datum: WGS84
Geoid Model: <None> Units: Meters
Adjustment Time: 2008/04/10 10:28:18 (LOCAL) Time Zone: GMT+8.00h


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adjustment Type: Free
Computation Level: Full Adjustment

Additional Parameters:
- Deflection of vertical (N-S) Not used
- Deflection of vertical (E-W) Not used
- Horizontal rotation Not used
- Scale difference Not used

Iteration Criteria:
- Maximum iteration 5
- Maximum coordinate difference (m) 0.0001

Reference Datum:
- Datum Name WGS84
- Semi-major axis (m) 6378137.000
- Flattening (m) 1.0/298.257222101

Weight Options:
- Use covariance matrix from vector analysis
- Use individual weighting scale

Geoid Model: NONE
- Orthometric heights will not be computed

Transformation to Map Coordinate System ...NO

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Summary of Adjustment Statistics
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of Points:
- Horizontal fixed & height fixed 1
- Horizontal fixed & height free 0
- Horizontal free & height fixed 0
- Horizontal free & height free 3
-----
total 4

Number of Unknowns:
- Latitude 3
- Longitude 3
- Height 3
- Additional parameters 0
-----
(a) total 9

Number of observations
- X component 12
- Y component 12
- Z component 12
-----
(b) total 36

Number of Rank Defect (c) 0
Number of Total Redundancy (b)+(c)-(a) 27
Iterations Used 2

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chi Square Test on the Variance Factor
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Total Number of Observations: 36
Redundancy: 27
Confidence Level: 95%
A Priori Variance Factor: 1.0000
A Posteriori Variance Factor (VF): 3.8973

Chi Square Test on the Variance Factor (3.8973)
0.5396 < VF < 1.5996

Standard Deviations for the input observations appear to be too optimistic.

** Note: The Standarded Deviation of Unit Weight is the square root of the
Variance Factor.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Input Coordinates and Corrections
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Point Input Coordinates Corrections Horizontal
Seconds m Vector

SRS-3014 P 8 26 43.57019 0.00000 0.000 0.000 m
FIXED 3-D L 126 10 34.73661 0.00000 0.000 0 deg
H 102.699 m 0.000

SRS-74 P 8 27 28.95534 - 0.00225 -0.069 0.190 m
L 126 09 34.96236 0.00579 0.177 111 deg
H 102.136 m -0.053

SRS-3013 P 8 30 58.86840 - 0.00202 -0.062 0.183 m
L 126 07 25.21289 0.00564 0.172 110 deg
H 114.245 m -0.056

SRS-56 P 8 31 36.10168 - 0.00203 -0.062 0.175 m
L 126 07 09.44843 0.00535 0.164 111 deg
H 110.542 m -0.056


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adjusted Coordinates and Standard Deviations
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Point Adjusted Coordinates Std Dev 95% Ellipse
(0.001sec) (mm)

SRS-3014 P 8 26 43.57019 0.00000 0.0 major 0.0 mm
FIXED 3-D L 126 10 34.73661 0.00000 0.0 azm. 0 deg
H 102.699 m minor 0.0 mm

SRS-74 P 8 27 28.95309 0.20476 6.3 major 15.4 mm
L 126 09 34.96815 0.17501 5.4 azm. 5 deg
H 102.083 m minor 13.1 mm

SRS-3013 P 8 30 58.86638 0.19508 6.0 major 14.8 mm
L 126 07 25.21853 0.17051 5.2 azm. 167 deg
H 114.189 m minor 12.7 mm

SRS-56 P 8 31 36.09965 0.18787 5.8 major 14.2 mm
L 126 07 09.45378 0.15725 4.8 azm. 171 deg
H 110.486 m minor 11.7 mm


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Observations and Residuals
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Observations Std Dev Residuals Standardized PPM
(m) (m) (m) Residuals

Vector: SRS-3013-SRS-56 weight= 1.00
dN 1143.8972 0.0063 0.000 -0.874 2.417
dE -482.1384 0.0109 0.004 -0.871 2.143
dH -3.8237 0.0023 0.000 -0.049 0.218

Vector: SRS-3013-SRS-56 Occ.[02] weight= 1.00
dN 1143.8979 0.0048 0.000 1.395 5.502
dE -482.1257 0.0093 -0.009 1.261 4.334
dH -3.8243 0.0019 0.000 -0.243 0.298

Vector: SRS-3014-SRS-56 weight= 1.00
dN 8987.6465 0.0052 -0.004 -2.796 * 0.679
dE -6278.1870 0.0089 0.008 -2.092 0.276
dH -1.6776 0.0028 0.001 -0.641 0.366

Vector: SRS-74-SRS-3013 Occ.[02] weight= 1.00
dN 6449.2051 0.0058 0.007 0.874 0.837
dE -3968.2463 0.0117 -0.005 0.185 0.052
dH 7.5931 0.0025 -0.003 1.297 0.873

Vector: SRS-74-SRS-56 Occ.[02] weight= 1.00
dN 7593.1440 0.0052 0.006 1.784 1.004
dE -4450.2661 0.0100 -0.010 1.367 0.640
dH 2.3017 0.0021 0.000 1.226 0.645

Vector: SRS-3014-SRS-74 weight= 1.00
dN 1394.2992 0.0049 0.004 -0.547 3.684
dE -1828.2260 0.0083 0.000 1.523 4.915
dH -1.0465 0.0024 0.015 0.757 2.614

Vector: SRS-74-SRS-56 weight= 1.00
dN 7593.1592 0.0072 -0.009 -2.310 1.576
dE -4450.2852 0.0113 0.009 -0.851 0.503
dH 2.2915 0.0034 0.010 -1.315 0.890

Vector: SRS-74-SRS-3013 weight= 1.00
dN 6449.2231 0.0081 -0.012 -1.541 1.708
dE -3968.2585 0.0141 0.007 -0.111 0.695
dH 7.5796 0.0035 0.010 -1.642 1.305

Vector: SRS-3014-SRS-3013 weight= 1.00
dN 7843.6938 0.0056 -0.008 -2.374 1.526
dE -5796.2114 0.0103 0.007 -0.280 0.848
dH 3.9874 0.0030 0.014 -1.502 0.584

Vector: SRS-3014-SRS-56 Occ.[02] weight= 1.00
dN 8987.6367 0.0059 0.006 4.184 ** 2.449
dE -6278.1533 0.0102 -0.026 1.655 0.651
dH -1.6668 0.0021 -0.009 0.821 0.410

Vector: SRS-3014-SRS-3013 Occ.[02] weight= 1.00
dN 7843.6758 0.0065 0.010 4.488 ** 3.397
dE -5796.1772 0.0116 -0.027 0.683 0.050
dH 4.0195 0.0027 -0.018 1.341 0.733

Vector: SRS-3014-SRS-74 Occ.[02] weight= 1.00
dN 1394.3724 0.0204 -0.069 -3.332 * 51.496
dE -1828.4032 0.0477 0.177 -4.212 ** 60.254
dH -0.9790 0.0053 -0.053 -1.898 33.143

* - Possible Outlier
** - Likely Outlier

 

[numinus]


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reliability of Observations
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Standard Deviations Reliability
Corr Obs Residuals Redundancy Internal External
(mm) (mm)
Vector: SRS-3014-SRS-74 weight= 1.00
N 6.20 7.46 0.52 0.03 4.11
E 10.75 12.31 0.57 0.03 3.71
H 2.95 3.66 0.57 0.03 3.74

Vector: SRS-3014-SRS-3013 weight= 1.00
N 5.88 9.44 0.66 0.03 3.27
E 10.30 17.57 0.71 0.03 3.10
H 2.70 5.27 0.72 0.03 2.61

Vector: SRS-3014-SRS-56 weight= 1.00
N 5.63 8.54 0.60 0.02 3.71
E 9.53 14.75 0.69 0.03 3.39
H 2.62 4.93 0.70 0.03 2.72

Vector: SRS-3014-SRS-74 Occ.[02] weight= 1.00
N 6.20 39.74 0.99 0.15 0.43
E 10.75 93.61 0.98 0.12 0.56
H 2.95 10.19 0.97 0.08 0.70

Vector: SRS-3014-SRS-3013 Occ.[02] weight= 1.00
N 5.88 11.48 0.82 0.04 1.83
E 10.30 20.44 0.79 0.04 2.05
H 2.70 4.52 0.79 0.03 2.17

Vector: SRS-3014-SRS-56 Occ.[02] weight= 1.00
N 5.63 10.16 0.81 0.03 1.90
E 9.53 17.69 0.75 0.03 2.30
H 2.62 3.23 0.76 0.03 2.33

Vector: SRS-74-SRS-3013 weight= 1.00
N 6.16 14.79 0.81 0.04 2.12
E 11.14 25.41 0.81 0.04 2.16
H 2.73 6.25 0.84 0.04 1.82

Vector: SRS-74-SRS-56 weight= 1.00
N 5.91 13.02 0.73 0.03 2.65
E 10.36 19.81 0.78 0.03 2.48
H 2.67 6.16 0.83 0.03 1.86

Vector: SRS-74-SRS-3013 Occ.[02] weight= 1.00
N 6.16 9.60 0.79 0.04 2.06
E 11.14 20.16 0.77 0.04 2.19
H 2.73 4.05 0.71 0.03 2.64

Vector: SRS-74-SRS-56 Occ.[02] weight= 1.00
N 5.91 8.43 0.76 0.03 2.21
E 10.36 16.78 0.71 0.03 2.48
H 2.67 3.22 0.67 0.03 2.90

Vector: SRS-3013-SRS-56 weight= 1.00
N 5.53 11.13 0.76 0.03 2.59
E 9.88 19.10 0.74 0.03 2.61
H 2.33 3.92 0.79 0.03 2.23

Vector: SRS-3013-SRS-56 Occ.[02] weight= 1.00
N 5.53 7.67 0.74 0.03 2.39
E 9.88 15.46 0.71 0.03 2.54
H 2.33 2.87 0.65 0.03 3.03


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Relative Precision
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ellip. Dist.
Height Diff. Relative
Azimuth Std Dev Precision 95% Ellipse
(m) (mm)

Vector: SRS-3014-SRS-74 weight= 1.00
2299.200 5.9 Hor. 1/390793 major 15.4 mm
-0.616 9.7 Ver. 1/236482 azm. 5 deg
307 19 51.9 0.5sec minor 13.1 mm

Vector: SRS-3014-SRS-3013 weight= 1.00
9752.745 5.7 Hor. 1/1717826 major 14.8 mm
11.490 9.2 Ver. 1/1059831 azm. 167 deg
323 32 12.8 0.1sec minor 12.7 mm

Vector: SRS-3014-SRS-56 weight= 1.00
10963.083 5.3 Hor. 1/2069347 major 14.2 mm
7.787 8.5 Ver. 1/1283908 azm. 171 deg
325 03 51.7 0.1sec minor 11.7 mm

Vector: SRS-74-SRS-3013 weight= 1.00
7572.141 6.0 Hor. 1/1263605 major 15.5 mm
12.106 9.8 Ver. 1/773467 azm. 174 deg
328 23 44.4 0.2sec minor 14.1 mm

Vector: SRS-3013-SRS-56 weight= 1.00
1241.331 5.4 Hor. 1/227793 major 14.1 mm
-3.703 8.5 Ver. 1/145565 azm. 166 deg
337 08 43.2 1.0sec minor 12.9 mm

Desired Network Accuracy was met for all Vectors

That is the summary of the complex mathematics involved in what is otherwise the mundane chore of measuring distances on the surface of the earth. This process is the SAME whether you are measuring 100 kilometers or 100 centimeters. Add to this the parameters of projectile motion and you have an immensely complex mathematical process indeed!

Now, are you going to sit there and claim that appreciation of this is what prompts your interest in guns? Or do you merely indulge in the freudian glee associated with seeing things (living or inanimate) blown to pieces?

You really aren't fooling anyone.

 

[Jarlaxle]

So, you've proved you can copy/paste pages upon pages of technical information. Congratulations.

I am a member of the gun culture, along with tens of millions of others. If I have to explain it, you do not (and quite likely CANNOT) understand.

 

[dahermit]

Sigh

In all physical measurements, there are three distinct sources of error - human, systematic, and random.

Human error is self explanatory.

Systematic errors are those errors coming from the instrument, assuming constant environmental factors.

Random errors are the those that result from the uncertainty inherent in the degree of precision of the instrument. It is the error related to the standard deviation which is formally defined as the root mean square of the deviations of all measurments from their arithmetical mean. In nature, this type of error CAN NEVER BE ELIMINATED.

So, if you exceed this pre-determined area of dispersion defined by the standard deviation, the difference would be due to either systematic or human error -- and thus can be adjusted accordingly.

Logical, isn't it?

Yup! you got me...this is exactly what I calculate when I sit down (at the bench) to sight in my guns!

 

[dahermit]


That is the summary of the complex mathematics involved in what is otherwise the mundane chore of measuring distances on the surface of the earth. This process is the SAME whether you are measuring 100 kilometers or 100 centimeters. Add to this the parameters of projectile motion and you have an immensely complex mathematical process indeed!

Now, are you going to sit there and claim that appreciation of this is what prompts your interest in guns? Or do you merely indulge in the Freudian glee associated with seeing things (living or inanimate) blown to pieces?

You really aren't fooling anyone.

Just as I have stated, shooting can be an intellectual pursuit. Most however, choose not to become so involved.

"... Or do you merely indulge in the Freudian glee associated with seeing things (living or inanimate) blown to pieces?"
I never got out of the anal sadistic stage, so yes, I am sure this is why I do it. It is what I do; it is what I enjoy (inanimate). I wonder what Freud would have said about you.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I think he might have written a thesis on Numi.