My sister is a naturalized american. My brother is a naturalized canadian.
I chose to live in the country of my birth.
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Who Shouldnt Have Guns?
- Thread starter Bunz
- Start date
My sister is a naturalized american. My brother is a naturalized canadian.
I chose to live in the country of my birth.
Werbung:
That is correct.
The proliferation of household guns is proportional to gun-related homicide.
The proliferation/non-proliferation of household guns does not bear on non-gun-related homicide.
The conclusion is obvious:
1. Household guns are not being used as deterrence, especially to non-gun-related homicide.
2. People inclined to homicide using guns do not simply shift to a more convenient weapon.
Rhodri
Well-Known Member
# In the 31 states that now have "concealed right to carry" laws, murders were down, on average, by 8.5 percent.
# Rapes were down 5 percent and serious assaults by 7 percent.
# In cities with populations of more than 250,000, murder rates dropped after the passage of such laws by an average of 13.5 percent.
http://www.ncpa.org/pi/crime/pdcrm/pdcrm20.htm
...these stats are unimportant to you?
# In the 31 states that now have "concealed right to carry" laws, murders were down, on average, by 8.5 percent.
# Rapes were down 5 percent and serious assaults by 7 percent.
# In cities with populations of more than 250,000, murder rates dropped after the passage of such laws by an average of 13.5 percent.
http://www.ncpa.org/pi/crime/pdcrm/pdcrm20.htm
...these stats are unimportant to you?
You are, in fact, disputing the veracity of my source, are you not????
My source, is as follows:
December 2002, Vol 92, No. 12 | American Journal of Public Health 1988-1993
© 2002 American Public Health Association
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RESEARCH AND PRACTICE
Rates of Household Firearm Ownership and Homicide Across US Regions and States, 1988–1997
Matthew Miller, MD, MPH, ScD, Deborah Azrael, MS, PhD and David Hemenway, PhD
Matthew Miller, Deborah Azrael, and David Hemenway are all from the Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, Mass.
Acknowledgments
This research was supported in part by grants from the Joyce Foundation, the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, and the Open Society Institute.
Human Participant Protection
No protocol approval was needed for this study.
Footnotes
Each author contributed substantially to the conceptualization, design, and interpretation of the study. M. Miller wrote the article and analyzed the data. D. Azrael and D. Hemenway contributed to the writing of the article and the analysis of the data, and made critical revisions to various iterations of the article.
Peer Reviewed
Accepted for publication February 18, 2002.
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2. Hemenway D, Miller M. Firearm availability and homicide rates across 26 high-income countries. J Trauma. 2000;49:985–988.[Medline]
3. National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Injury mortality statistics. Available at: http://wonder.cdc.gov/mortICD9J.shtml. Accessed January 10, 2002.
4. Sourcebook of Criminal Justice Statistics 2000. 28th ed. Washington, DC: Bureau of Justice Statistics, US Dept of Justice; 2001: Table 3.125. Available at: http://www.albany.edu/sourcebook/1995/pdf/t3125.pdf. Accessed January 10, 2002.
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16. Brill S. Firearm Abuse: A Research and Policy Report. Washington, DC: Police Foundation, 1977.
17. Duggan M. More guns, more crime. J Polit Econ. 2002;109:1086–1114.
18. Davis JA, Smith TW. General Social Surveys, 1972–1998 [machine-readable data file]. Chicago, Ill: National Opinion Research Center [producer]; Storrs, Conn: The Roper Center for Public Opinion Research, University of Connecticut [distributor]; 1998.
19. Azrael D, Cook P, Miller M. State and Local Prevalence of Firearms Ownership: Measurement, Structure, and Trends. National Bureau of Economic Research Working Paper W8570. October 2001. Available at: http://www.nber.org/papers/w8570. Accessed January 10, 2002.
20. National Center for Health Statistics. Hyattsville, Md: National Center for Health Statistics, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention; 1998. Available at: http://wonder.cdc.gov/mortsql.shtml. Accessed January 10, 2002.
21. Powell KE, Jacklin BC, Nelson DE, Bland S. State estimates of household exposure to firearms, loaded firearms, and handguns, 1991 through 1995. Am J Public Health. 1998;88:969–972.[Abstract/Free Full Text]
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24. Kleck G. Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control. New York, NY: Aldine de Gruyter, 1997.
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26. Fingerhut LA, Ingram DD, Feldman JJ. Firearm and nonfirearm homicide among persons 15 through 19 years of age: differences by level of urbanization, United States, 1979–1989. JAMA. 1992;267:3048–3053.[Abstract]
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30. National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism. Per capita ethanol consumption for states, census regions, and the United States, 1970–98
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32. Crime Gun Trace Reports, 1999: The Youth Crime Gun Interdiction Initiative. Washington, DC: Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms; Department of the Treasury. November 2000.
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35. Snyder H, Finnegan T, Wan Y, Kang W. Easy Access to the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports: 1980–1999. 2001. National Center for Juvenile Justice. Available at: http://ojjdp.ncjrs.org/ojstatbb/ezashr . Accessed January 10, 2002.
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Your source, however, is as follows:
Sources: Ian Katz, "'Gun Law' Cuts Crime Rate, US Study Finds," Guardian, August 3, 1996, and Dennis Cauchon, "Study: Weapons Laws Deter Crime: Fewer Rapes, Murders Found Where Concealed Guns Legal," USA Today, August 2, 1996.
It is funny that you would present a study based on 2 ARTICLES PUBLISHED IN 2 NEWSPAPERS . No peer-review. No NOTHING .
Now, are you suggesting that reasonable individuals in this forum believe your source over mine????
Rhodri
Well-Known Member
I asked if the stats concerning concealed carry we're unimportant to you. Your info is in regards to gun ownership in general.
My feelings are that your stats are meaningless. Why? because you will never get rid of all the guns and if you can't get rid of all the guns, I want one too.... If you are in fact advocating banning guns, are you?
My feelings are that your stats are meaningless. Why? because you will never get rid of all the guns and if you can't get rid of all the guns, I want one too.... If you are in fact advocating banning guns, are you?
pocketfullofshells
Well-Known Member
# In the 31 states that now have "concealed right to carry" laws, murders were down, on average, by 8.5 percent.
# Rapes were down 5 percent and serious assaults by 7 percent.
# In cities with populations of more than 250,000, murder rates dropped after the passage of such laws by an average of 13.5 percent.
http://www.ncpa.org/pi/crime/pdcrm/pdcrm20.htm
...these stats are unimportant to you?
those stats are in fact worthless. The reason, what if the other states are down the same amount or even more? then would they mean anything? no. But you did a good job at showing why stats can say what you want.
that said I have no issue with conceal and carry, if I had money I would go get my own permit.
Does anyone else have a problem with an alien citizen voicing his opinion on purely internal American Constitutional issues? Are other cultures so different from ours that, that would not be considered a breech of good manners?
My upbringing prohibits me from commenting on another countries internal issues unless they affect me (despite what my government may be doing). I may ask questions, but personal opinions on their issues would go far beyond the bounds of good manners.
Therefore, I will not have any further communication with him on these threads for issues in which he is not vested. The interpretation of the American Constitution is none of his business, just as the Constitution in his country is none of mine.
pocketfullofshells
Well-Known Member
do you ever talk about Chinas policy in its own nation? or how middle east nations run there nations ?I bet you do, though I cant say for sure. So I see no problem with it, but I value the opinion a bit less, but does not make it wrong.
Jarlaxle
Well-Known Member
Dang, that's quite a collection! My uncle doesn't have that many (I think about eight), but one of them is worth about $60,000 (that's not a typo). The combined value of the rest is probably about $3000 or so (with his Springfield Sledgehammer accouting for much of that). My wife and I each have two...other than my Smith, none are worth much.
It is important. It demonstrates to what extent the gun lobby is willing to warp facts and logic.
Your info pertains to privately owned guns -- which is what I am talking about.
It tells so much about your intellectual integrity if you feel that facts and logic are meaningless? If facts and logic are meaningless, then what the hell is, hmmm?
Of course I can't. The government can.
You underestimate the power of facts and logic on rational human beings.
I'm sure sublime would take offense in this statement. He's a moderator, no less.
Neither your upbringing nor your good manners, nor your country has anything to do with the operation of facts and logic.
I have no problems, whatsoever, in that regard.
Vested with what, hmmm? Does one need to be an american citizen to post an opinion in this forum? Your idea of the freedom of expression and speech is as defective as the logic you are demonstrating in here.
The american constitution, the social contract theories of locke, hobbes and rousseau, modern constitutionalism, socialism and marxism, fascism, medieval thought, theocracy, ancient greek democracy, among others, where abundantly discussed in the political science classes I attended.
They are ideas that are the PATRIMONY OF THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE.
Although why I need to explain this to a bigot is, quite frankly, beyond me.
Rhodri
Well-Known Member
I'm not disputing any facts, people abuse the use of guns without question. The government can rid the U.S. of guns? Now there's a naive bit of thinking, I suppose with the same success they've had in the battle against drugs and prostitution. Not wanting or owning a firearm is another example of simple-minded thinking demonstrated by you, I suppose you don't need smoke alarms either.
The suggestion of the poster who says we should turn them in for the good of society infers that we are to volunteer to assume the financial loss inasmuch as he does not suggest that the government buy them back... good luck with that one.
It is possible because he says that it is possible...who are we to suggest that it is not possible. Notice that he never volunteers as to what bastion of democracy he is from.
Werbung:
With the same success as slavery and racial prejudice, I imagine.
No one is suggesting that it is an easy undertaking. The task of reconstituting society almost always isn't.
Now you are suggesting that guns are necessary to an individual's existence???
I wonder what facts and logic you based that opinion on???
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