What will happen if we Withdraw from Iraq

[BigRob]

Oh, I see, we're there to keep the peace, and to keep those "axis of evil" members Iran from influencing Iraq"s puppet government. All that, despite the fact that Iran is right next door and we are thousands of miles away. Again, it's all about oil and Israel.

Ok, you can make that case, if you actually make it, which I doubt you can do. But I am all ears.

Saying its all about oil is offering a very simplistic view of the situation. The USA has to protect its interests in the ME for yes oil, and also to limit the power of China and Russia in the region. Its more than just oil, but oil does play a very large role.

Israel also most likely played zero factor in the Iraq invasion decision.

 

[BigRob]

Oh, I see, we're there to keep the peace, and to keep those "axis of evil" members Iran from influencing Iraq"s puppet government. All that, despite the fact that Iran is right next door and we are thousands of miles away. Again, it's all about oil and Israel.

And as pointed out, you are changing the subject, your point of a US pullout resulting in Iraqi self-determination has been completely refuted.

 

[Reliant]

And as pointed out, you are changing the subject, your point of a US pullout resulting in Iraqi self-determination has been completely refuted.

So this is the point where your argument deteriorates and you claim yourself the winner.

I see Petraeus is looking at a troop drawdown in the spring as "The United States would be hard-pressed to maintain the current level of nearly 170,000 troops in Iraq indefinitely". I guess then we will see a massive invasion of Iranian, Saudi, and Turkish military roll into Iraq to take up where the US left off. Give me a break. I suppose next you'll be telling us the Mongol Hordes are planning a mammoth incursion.

 

[Popeye]

And as pointed out, you are changing the subject, your point of a US pullout resulting in Iraqi self-determination has been completely refuted.

I never changed the subject. Your so called U.S. "interests" are all based on oil and Israel. Otherwise, why would we even care about the region? We've got big oil and Jewish lobbyists crawling all over Capital Hill. They fill the coffers of politicians of both parties. That's the main reason we won't allow Iraq to decide it's own future. So what if Iran influences them?, they're right next door after all, it's regional. We sure as heck influence Canada and Mexico. Self determination can be a messy process, but something will become of it.

 

[BigRob]

So this is the point where your argument deteriorates and you claim yourself the winner.

I see Petraeus is looking at a troop drawdown in the spring as "The United States would be hard-pressed to maintain the current level of nearly 170,000 troops in Iraq indefinitely". I guess then we will see a massive invasion of Iranian, Saudi, and Turkish military roll into Iraq to take up where the US left off. Give me a break. I suppose next you'll be telling us the Mongol Hordes are planning a mammoth incursion.

Funny a draw down and a pullout are not the same thing. Also, not being able to maintain our presence, and the idea that we should maintain our presence are very different things. I feel dumber arguing with you people, at least the people at work have a clue about what is really going on.

And when we create the void, I guarantee that Iranian backed militias (as is already the case) gain more influence, and Sunni militias will get help from Saudi Arabia.

You clearly lack any real understanding of politics and how the system works, and I am not going to go through it all. Goto Iraq perhaps, do some research, talk to people on the ground, and see for yourself.

 

[Popeye]

Funny a draw down and a pullout are not the same thing. Also, not being able to maintain our presence, and the idea that we should maintain our presence are very different things. I feel dumber arguing with you people, at least the people at work have a clue about what is really going on.



You clearly lack any real understanding of politics and how the system works, and I am not going to go through it all. Goto Iraq perhaps, do some research, talk to people on the ground, and see for yourself.

You must have a degree in insults too, congratulations.

 

[BigRob]

You must have a degree in insults too, congratulations.

I do, I minored in it. Thanks for disputing the facts. I guess they do not teach that in High School anymore. Oh well, keep doing your thing, I am glad that the people who I work with are a bit more focused on the issues and have good backgrounds in this stuff.

 

[vyo476]

If you're reading reports on our own troop reduction ideas, you either read or skipped over the reports saying that the Iraqi military/police forces are not ready to assume control of the country. Let's think about this logically for a minute - if we leave, and they can't control things, what happens? Anarchy! How well do neighboring countries put up with anarchy? Not well! How much of an interest do Iraq's neighbors have in Iraq? Quite a bit! Do you suppose that, at the very least, they'll lend extreme support to whichever violent militia group represents their cause? Of course! Do you suppose they might even invade, seeing as mini-wars and invasions have not been uncommon in the Middle East over the past fifty years? Yes!

What part of that equals "Iraqi self-determination"?

 

[BigRob]

If you're reading reports on our own troop reduction ideas, you either read or skipped over the reports saying that the Iraqi military/police forces are not ready to assume control of the country. Let's think about this logically for a minute - if we leave, and they can't control things, what happens? Anarchy! How well do neighboring countries put up with anarchy? Not well! How much of an interest do Iraq's neighbors have in Iraq? Quite a bit! Do you suppose that, at the very least, they'll lend extreme support to whichever violent militia group represents their cause? Of course! Do you suppose they might even invade, seeing as mini-wars and invasions have not been uncommon in the Middle East over the past fifty years? Yes!

What part of that equals "Iraqi self-determination"?

They don't get it and never will because they really have no clue how the Middle East works. Its not worth it anymore.

 

[Popeye]

If you're reading reports on our own troop reduction ideas, you either read or skipped over the reports saying that the Iraqi military/police forces are not ready to assume control of the country. Let's think about this logically for a minute - if we leave, and they can't control things, what happens? Anarchy! How well do neighboring countries put up with anarchy? Not well! How much of an interest do Iraq's neighbors have in Iraq? Quite a bit! Do you suppose that, at the very least, they'll lend extreme support to whichever violent militia group represents their cause? Of course! Do you suppose they might even invade, seeing as mini-wars and invasions have not been uncommon in the Middle East over the past fifty years? Yes!

So what? can't the Middle East work things out for themselves without the interference of a western imperialistic power? Mr. degree says no, I say yes.

 

[vyo476]

So what? can't the Middle East work things out for themselves without the interference of a western imperialistic power? Mr. degree says no, I say yes.

And reliant says:

Iraq would experience the greatest reward any Nation could desire.... the right to self determination.

And that's really all I'm refuting.

 

[Reliant]

I feel dumber arguing with you people, at least the people at work have a clue about what is really going on.

You are dumber when you argue with us, but it's only because we are smarter than "the people at work".

And when we create the void, I guarantee that Iranian backed militias (as is already the case) gain more influence, and Sunni militias will get help from Saudi Arabia.

Yes, perhaps you're right. It would be far better for us to throw American cannon fodder into the fray than let Iraq determine it's own future. How many more kids should we let die before we finally realize that this is a secular conflict and not a political one? Two thousand more, five thousand, or should we try to break the record set in Viet Nam? Please, give us a number.

You clearly lack any real understanding of politics and how the system works, and I am not going to go through it all. Goto Iraq perhaps, do some research, talk to people on the ground, and see for yourself.

Thank you for fustian sermon but it only shows your narrow-mindedness when faced with differing opinions.
Cheers.

 

[Hard Driver]

The only thing that'd change my mind would be if a majority of Iraqis were to say that they wanted us gone.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/26/AR2006092601721.html

OK, you must be convinced.. Because the Majority of Iraqis DO want the US to leave immediately.

 

[Hard Driver]

I only see Big Rob answering the question of what would happen in Iraq..

vyo476 agrees with him.

Everyone else seems to just be saying they have a right to self determination... what bigrob says won't happen...

So back to the original question... What would happen if we withdraw in an orderly manner over the next year?

 

[vyo476]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/26/AR2006092601721.html

OK, you must be convinced.. Because the Majority of Iraqis DO want the US to leave immediately.

I guess I was expecting this sort of thing to make bigger headlines, because yes, I missed it.

Okay. I'm convinced. If they want us gone now and have the solidarity to express it like that, then we have no business staying.