Over 100 years ago? Public education speaks.
The whole point he is making is invalid because a pullout is not going to result in that anyway, a point he refuses to acknowledge.
-
Discuss politics - join our community by registering for free here! HOP - the political discussion forum
What will happen if we Withdraw from Iraq
- Thread starter Hard Driver
- Start date
The whole point he is making is invalid because a pullout is not going to result in that anyway, a point he refuses to acknowledge.
Werbung:
Over 100 years ago? Public education speaks.
I thought most people would know that I was referring to America's Civil War, mainly because we were talking about a civil war in Iraq. Our very own civil war started about 142 years ago or.... "over a hundred years ago". But I suppose there are still those were who were denied the Public Education System and just learned school yard etiquette. Too bad.
Can you get me some fries to go with that Mac?
What "point" do I refuse to acknowledge?
No it does not, except that there is no debate. I would love to debate, if a rational argument is made with valid evidence to back it up, none of which has happened yet. I put valid points out there, and they were ignored and dismissed with no debate. That is what I was referring to when I said debate the points please or just stop.
Every issue I raised in regards to Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Iran, and the Sunni, Shiites, and Kurds, and how they will view a pullout. I have posted it two times, I am not posting it again.
I am not asking you to post it again. I asked a simple question.... What "point" do I refuse to acknowledge?
All of those issues you ignored with the response that "they will not invade".
Do you believe that Turkey, who is trying desperately to be accepted not only in Europe but on the world stage, Iran, that isn't even Arab, Saudi Arabia, that we just gave $billions$ for arms to, and Syria, who can't even get back land from 1967, is going to invade Iraq??
Come on man, use the Degree.
When I said Iraq had the right to self determination, you responded with..."I agree they do have that right, but a pullout has nothing to do with that and will not result in that".
How does a "pullout" not allow Iraq to self determination if clearly these countries would not invade?
Because these countries are going to come. In you look at Turkey, yes, they are turning towards Europe, but they have a huge Kurdish domestic population and view an independent Kurdish state as a threat to their national security. If Europe punishes them for this, they simply turn towards Asia and away from Europe, especially with China and Russia dying to increase their influence in the region. Turkey can afford to do this.
Iran is not Arab no. But they back the Shiites in Iraq to a huge extent, and do not want to see Saudi Arabian and Sunni influence increase in the region either. Iran is already heavily involved, and will continue to stay involved to thwart any attempts and Saudi Arabian influence coming in.
Saudi Arabia is in the same situation. They are competing with Iran for regional hegemony. To idly sit by and let Iran increase its influence and dominance in the region is simply unacceptable, and they have said exactly that.
Syria is not the problem, I didnt even mention them because they will be mostly a non-factor in a post-war Iraq or a post-US Iraq.
It doesnt matter that we give aid to Saudi Arabia or Iran is not Arab or Turkey is trying to get in the EU. What matters is how these people view the security in their region. None of these states will trust the other one and all will be involved in a power struggle for Iraq after the US pulls out.
They are not going to outright invade, it will come in the form of "peacekeeping" after the US leaves, and will be played up as them cleaning up the mess the US made.
vyo476
Well-Known Member
More to the point, even if Turkey, Iran, and Saudi Arabia don't get up the guts to actually send troops in, you can bet they'd do everything else under the sun to support whichever side of the Iraqi Civil War they favor, which would only prolong the conflict long past what it'd be like if it was just Iraqis vs. Iraqis. That isn't "self-determination," it's "whose friends have bigger guns."
Yes, exactly, none of these countries are going to just let it be. Which is why a pullout does not equate to Iraqis having self-determination.
Then we seem to agree that there is no invasion going to happen. So I guess that wasn't the "point" you referred to.
Let me tell you that none of these countries will have any influence on Iraq that Iraq doesn't want. Did you see Maliki and Ahmadinejad when the iranian President declared "Ties With Iraq 'Excellent'?
Let them have a chance. Do you honestly believe that a puppet US government is going to last anyway? Let me remind you we have not had much success with puppet governments in the past. Eventually they also exercise their right to self determination.
Popeye
Well-Known Member
What is wrong with these countries determining the future of their own region? We seem to think that the whole world is our business,while we wouldn't stand for anybody meddling in the Americas. That's hypocrisy, and no amount of neo-con,Fox News, double-talk will change that.
Werbung:
And who's friends have bigger guns?
That's precisely why none of these countries would dare use military force to influence Iraq.
