What Interrogation Techniques are Acceptable?

[GenSeneca]

How can you tell when Cheney is lying?

His lips are moving. He can't hide that.

Does that hold true for Obama as well?

If we protest and try to change another nation's practice of abusing human rights, are we more credible if we have more and bigger missiles, or if we ourselves have set an example?

I thought you were a Libertarian... why are you poking your nose into the business of other countries? If they want to violate the rights of Non-US citizens, or their own citizens, then what business is it of yours?

 

[GenSeneca]

Well I can assure you of this... it ain't TORTURE!

And you know this because Obama assured you it wouldn't be torture... just like Bush assured us his wouldn't be torture.

EVERY FUTURE CONFLICT WITH ANY ENEMY FROM ANY LOCATION IN THE WORLD THAT AMERICA IS EVER ENGAGED IN.

Unless we fight a European country, they were going to torture us anyway... China, Russia, Iran and the rest have no problem with torturing people. Our waterboarding 3 top level AQ terrorists responsible for the deaths of our countrymen, not for retribution but for information to prevent another attack, doesn't make a difference to countries that would torture us anyway.

 

[GenSeneca]

President Obama has reserved the right to engage in waterboarding should he deem it appropriate.

It won't be "TORTURE!!!!" when Obama does it...

 

[top gun]

President Obama has reserved the right to engage in waterboarding should he deem it appropriate.

I imagine he would deem it appropriate if we captured some high level AQ terrorists and they had information about an upcoming attack that could be thwarted on the city of LA.

So far P O is not that much different than P B.

I don't care if Jesus himself came down from the heavens, TORTURE is wrong!

Republican Presidential candidate John McCain who's been tortured even freely admits water suffocation (waterboarding) IS TORTURE.

Torture is wrong. Hence the name TORTURE.

tor⋅ture [tawr-cher]

The act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.

 

[top gun]

And you know this because Obama assured you it wouldn't be torture... just like Bush assured us his wouldn't be torture.

Let's just try... I mean really try to be realistic for just one minute seriously.

On one hand we had President Bush & Dick Cheney who have spent endless hours (Dick is still trying) to say water suffocation isn't torture. Did every trick in the books to hide it and at the same time find back up loopholes so if it ever came out they wouldn't be prosecuted for war crimes.

On the other hand we have President Obama who was publicly against it from the first time it was known to be happening... the second he took office officially put an end to it by his power as Commander in Chief... and then held a press conference on his official dismantling of the Bush/Cheney TORTURE PROGRAM... and has spoken out against the practice countless times since.

YEP! I believe Bush was FOR TORTURE... and President Obama is totally against it.

Unless we fight a European country, they were going to torture us anyway... China, Russia, Iran and the rest have no problem with torturing people. Our waterboarding 3 top level AQ terrorists responsible for the deaths of our countrymen, not for retribution but for information to prevent another attack, doesn't make a difference to countries that would torture us anyway.

Let alone the moral fact two wrongs don't make a right. Let's not even get to that because that's soooo blatantly obvious.

The fact is we have no freakin' clue as to what alliances there could be in the future. And the point is we can't build any international support anymore if any country tortures our guys & gals to try and at least halt it at some point and possible get some of these brave men & women back as unharmed as possible.

Over the years there have been all kinds of spy & prisoner swaps with counties like Russia & China. By praising George Bush & Dick Cheney's TORTURE CAMPAIGN you are making the odds worse against our loved ones.

And that does irritate me because my best friends son who's with the 101st Airborne out of Fort Campbell and been to Iraq 3 tours is more in harms way because of jack a$$ chicken hawks like George Bush & Dick Cheney.

That's the truth.

 

[PLC1]

Does that hold true for Obama as well?

Whether you agree with Obama's positions or not, he remains a much more credible source than Cheney.

I thought you were a Libertarian... why are you poking your nose into the business of other countries? If they want to violate the rights of Non-US citizens, or their own citizens, then what business is it of yours?

No one is talking about forcing other nations to support human rights. I'm suggesting we become an example and an advocate for human rights.

Libertarians are for human rights, not for government power.

 

[GenSeneca]

Whether you agree with Obama's positions or not, he remains a much more credible source than Cheney.

To you maybe... I've seen him lie too many times, about too many things, to find him credible on anything he says... Probably the same way you feel about Cheney. Cheney lied about what? Iraq... and... Iraq... Obama has lied about everything from Automakers to Taxes and he's far better at manipulating a gullible public than Cheney ever was.

Of course, Obama can just use Rendition to send high priority suspects to other countries, where they will be tortured, not just waterboarded but full on tortured. We may or may not get useful information but what's important is that you won't see America as being responsible for that torture.

No one is talking about forcing other nations to support human rights. I'm suggesting we become an example and an advocate for human rights.

So you don't think that different people can disagree on what is and is not torture? If we were to go down a list of interrogation techniques, there would be unanimous agreement on every single technique as to whether or not it was torture?

 

[PLC1]

To you maybe... I've seen him lie too many times, about too many things, to find him credible on anything he says... Probably the same way you feel about Cheney. Cheney lied about what? Iraq... and... Iraq... Obama has lied about everything from Automakers to Taxes and he's far better at manipulating a gullible public than Cheney ever was.

Of course, Obama can just use Rendition to send high priority suspects to other countries, where they will be tortured, not just waterboarded but full on tortured. We may or may not get useful information but what's important is that you won't see America as being responsible for that torture.


So you don't think that different people can disagree on what is and is not torture? If we were to go down a list of interrogation techniques, there would be unanimous agreement on every single technique as to whether or not it was torture?

Oh, yes, people disagree on what constitutes torture, and on what human rights consists of as well.

A nation that engages in what many others view as torture is not a credible voice as an advocate for human rights.

 

[GenSeneca]

Oh, yes, people disagree on what constitutes torture, and on what human rights consists of as well.

But its only the people who agree with you that count...

A nation that engages in what many others view as torture is not a credible voice as an advocate for human rights.

That's laughable... Do you have any idea who's on the Human Rights Council in the UN? Is China a credible voice? How about Saudi Arabia? Puh-leez...

 

[PLC1]

But its only the people who agree with you that count...

Sure, that's it. There are right thinking people who agree with me, then there are people who are wrong.

Anyway, taking your post literally, that is what one would have to conclude.

That's laughable... Do you have any idea who's on the Human Rights Council in the UN? Is China a credible voice? How about Saudi Arabia? Puh-leez...

That's why the US has to remain a credible voice for human rights. China and Saudi Arabia have no credibility in that area at all. Someone has to stand up for what is right.

Of course, it is going to be a long time before anyone is willing to listen again, but we'll get there.

 

[GenSeneca]

Of course, it is going to be a long time before anyone is willing to listen again, but we'll get there.

Who are you so worried about impressing?

 

[PLC1]

Who are you so worried about impressing?

Not so much impressing as persuading.

Would you listen to a thief saying that stealing is wrong?

 

[GenSeneca]

Not so much impressing as persuading.

Ok then, what country are you interested in persuading?

While you're at it... I asked you in another thread that got off topic to come here and offer your suggestion for how we can obtain information from a 1-A suspect who's been through all 5 levels of interrogation and remains uncooperative... He needs to go to level 6, "enhanced interrogation", so....

What Interrogation Techniques are Acceptable?

Just start with ONE technique that accomplishes these 2 goals:

1. Both you and the "civilized world" must find it acceptable.
2. It must achieve timely results.

Now, seeing as you're a self declared pragmatist... I'm surprised you abandon pragmatism and choose ideological grounds where waterboarding is concerned. In pragmatic terms, its very effective and takes only seconds to get results... That's the epitome of pragmatism: works fast and is effective.

 

[top gun]

To you maybe... I've seen him lie too many times, about too many things, to find him credible on anything he says... Probably the same way you feel about Cheney. Cheney lied about what? Iraq... and... Iraq... Obama has lied about everything from Automakers to Taxes and he's far better at manipulating a gullible public than Cheney ever was.

But the real truth is... you said you would run him down anyway regardless just because you didn't like him waaaaaay before he ever became President... because you thought people were mean the George Bush (see I don't forget these things).

And that's all you're doing. President Obama was undeniably left with a burning bag of Bush/Cheney dog crap and you are one of those weak sisters that instead of just admitting that want to whine that you don't like how he's trying to put Bush's burning crap bag out.

The Bush/Cheney administration were liars of the worst sort. President Obama is working his butt off to turn their mess... THE BUSH RECESSION around.

Of course, Obama can just use Rendition to send high priority suspects to other countries, where they will be tortured, not just waterboarded but full on tortured. We may or may not get useful information but what's important is that you won't see America as being responsible for that torture.

A President is not going to give up the right to move enemy combatants where he sees fit... waterboarding is full torture... and President Obama is against torture unlike Bush/Cheney who relished it.

So you don't think that different people can disagree on what is and is not torture? If we were to go down a list of interrogation techniques, there would be unanimous agreement on every single technique as to whether or not it was torture?

Sure... you can disagree on anything. You can disagree that pulling someone's head of hair out by the roots isn't torture because hey, they don't die from it... you'd probably call it waxing!

But that's all BS and you know it.

John McCain himself was tortured. He's a Republican Presidential candidate and he's always said waterboarding is without doubt torture. Why does this matter so much to him...

Because he was tortured... and now he has sons serving at greater risk because people like you vacillate between glorifying torture & saying it's not torture when it clearly is.

 

[top gun]

Ok then, what country are you interested in persuading?

While you're at it... I asked you in another thread that got off topic to come here and offer your suggestion for how we can obtain information from a 1-A suspect who's been through all 5 levels of interrogation and remains uncooperative... He needs to go to level 6, "enhanced interrogation", so....

What Interrogation Techniques are Acceptable?

Just start with ONE technique that accomplishes these 2 goals:

1. Both you and the "civilized world" must find it acceptable.
2. It must achieve timely results.

Now, seeing as you're a self declared pragmatist... I'm surprised you abandon pragmatism and choose ideological grounds where waterboarding is concerned. In pragmatic terms, its very effective and takes only seconds to get results... That's the epitome of pragmatism: works fast and is effective.

Setting up a strawman argument only goes to show you have lost your moral compass here my friend. Look at what you just wrote... seriously now... just look.

Your whole question broken down is... At what point can we TORTURE PEOPLE?

With a side order of... It can be horrendous I just need timely results.

You know if the information is guessed to be important enough whether a group of people actually have it or not we could just go into a village, tie everyone's hands being their backs and one by one throw them off a bridge until someone spills the beans. COME ON DUDE!

The correct thing to do is what I would call cop gone bad. There's no prisoner stopping of the interrogation, there's no asking for an attorney, you can use every mind game in the book and extremely poor & cramped living conditions, you can even push they guy around a bit as far as I'm concerned. WE DON'T HAVE TO MAKE THINGS PLEASANT...

BUT WE AS AMERICANS DON'T TORTURE PEOPLE WITH THINGS LIKE WATER SUFFOCATION!

Your whole argument is trying to say the ends justify the means no matter what we do. You are mistaken my friend.

Everyone should look at this...