What Interrogation Techniques are Acceptable?

[top gun]

Though I think you got Hitler in with the wrong crowd... He most deserves to be with your boy obama!

OK just let me get this straight because maybe I'm just not reading something right here. I your world...

Because President Obama is against torture and believes in the rule of law...

believes that America is a country of laws...

believes in the basic human rights of captured detainees as recognized Internationally in the Geneva Convention...

believes in criminal trials to establish guilt & legally punish...

and knows that not recognizing such only puts our own brave troops at more of a risk of torture themselves...

PRESIDENT OBAMA IS MORE LIKE HITLER???????????????????????

WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW!!!

 

[Pandora]

OK just let me get this straight because maybe I'm just not reading something right here. I your world...

Because President Obama is against torture and believes in the rule of law...

believes that America is a country of laws...

believes in the basic human rights of captured detainees as recognized Internationally in the Geneva Convention...

believes in criminal trials to establish guilt & legally punish...

and knows that not recognizing such only puts our own brave troops at more of a risk of torture themselves...

PRESIDENT OBAMA IS MORE LIKE HITLER???????????????????????

WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW!!!

I think he is more like Hitler yes, targeting a group and calling them less than human or less of a person is something he has done. That is what Hitler will always be most known for.

 

[BigRob]

We don't have to adapt/change/modify/create new techniques in torture...not when what they were able to achieve as a successful information flow from Saddam Hussein with the techniques that they used on him {no physical torture was ever done to him}. 4th time I've said it!

This is true, but in many cases the mentality of the actors is different. Saddam Hussein did not want to die for his cause, he wanted to remain in power. Many foreign fighters and Jihadists have no qualms about dying for the cause, and in some captured documents from Al Qaeda in Iraq it openly states are part of their trainings that torture will always be alleged regardless of what is happening.

Now this is not to say nothing occurred, but I think when comparing the two you have to at least accept that the overall mentality varies between the two.

 

[BigRob]

OK just let me get this straight because maybe I'm just not reading something right here. I your world...

Because President Obama is against torture and believes in the rule of law...

believes that America is a country of laws...

We followed the law at the time for all the actions that occurred.

believes in the basic human rights of captured detainees as recognized Internationally in the Geneva Convention...

The Geneva Convention does not give these people POW status. At the absolute most it says that they are subject to our own domestic laws should we choose to do that.

believes in criminal trials to establish guilt & legally punish...

and knows that not recognizing such only puts our own brave troops at more of a risk of torture themselves...

I do not buy this notion that it makes our troops more likely to get tortured. Those that are going to torture our soldiers will do so regardless of what we do. You will notice that many of the Taliban fighters that fought us openly and obeyed the Geneva Conventions were in fact treated as POW's. Countries that abide by the Geneva Conventions (and we are one of them) will treat other countries POW's as they should be, and us waterboarding a few detainees is not going to change that.

 

[primerib]

Every political forum has pages and pages of nonsense about this topic. We are talking about putting a wet towel over the head of 3 enemy combatants with a medical team standing by. That's not torture!

This is a gigantic political distraction away from what is really important like credit and jobs. This idiot president is appeasing the far left zombies with a political campaign promise and dividing our country even further.

I'm an American first, then a veteran, then a conservative but DHS thinks I'm an extremist.

 

[top gun]

I think he is more like Hitler yes, targeting a group and calling them less than human or less of a person is something he has done. That is what Hitler will always be most known for.

And just who would that group be?

 

[Pandora]

And just who would that group be?

The unborn and the very newly born

 

[top gun]

Every political forum has pages and pages of nonsense about this topic. We are talking about putting a wet towel over the head of 3 enemy combatants with a medical team standing by. That's not torture!

This is a gigantic political distraction away from what is really important like credit and jobs. This idiot president is appeasing the far left zombies with a political campaign promise and dividing our country even further.

I'm an American first, then a veteran, then a conservative but DHS thinks I'm an extremist.

REALLY... NO KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So to you International Law and the fact that the United States itself has gone after and helped prosecute other leaders in other countries for waterboarding is just what? A misunderstanding?

And being so harmless you hope that our troops when captured receive this wonderful aqua therapy?

In fact you'd like to see your wife or child treated in this mannor... and without even as much as a hearing or trial to where someone has to present some actual evidence of wrong doing?

SERIOUSLY NOW... because that's EXACTLY what the Nazi said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

This is true, but in many cases the mentality of the actors is different. Saddam Hussein did not want to die for his cause, he wanted to remain in power. Many foreign fighters and Jihadists have no qualms about dying for the cause, and in some captured documents from Al Qaeda in Iraq it openly states are part of their trainings that torture will always be alleged regardless of what is happening.

Now this is not to say nothing occurred, but I think when comparing the two you have to at least accept that the overall mentality varies between the two.

But that is exactly the point that the veteran CIA agent was making in his interview on '60 Minutes'...you have to slowly approach the 'captured subject matter' and slowly get into their specific psyche and find out what makes him/them tic and then slowly apply the 'methods' that best suit their particular ego! And Saddam 'EGO' was his button to tweak.

But should other prisoners be treated differently because they aren't heads of states??? I don't know, are the manuals written up differently according to rank??? I don't know those answers but I would hope NOT!

And as far as the Al Qaeda mind set goes...yes, dying for ones beliefs guarantees a celestial orgy with 40 plus vestal virgins...but the Japanese fighter pilots were very much of the same mind set...it was dishonorable to be taken prisoner...so we have had dealings with suicide type warriors before!

 

[Andy]

REALLY... NO KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So to you International Law and the fact that the United States itself has gone after and helped prosecute other leaders in other countries for waterboarding is just what? A misunderstanding?

And being so harmless you hope that our troops when captured receive this wonderful aqua therapy?

In fact you'd like to see your wife or child treated in this mannor... and without even as much as a hearing or trial to where someone has to present some actual evidence of wrong doing?

SERIOUSLY NOW... because that's EXACTLY what the Nazi said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Funny how when Pandora defends the innocent, you defend the guilty.

 

[top gun]

The unborn and the very newly born

Well besides Democrats the majority of Independents and even a moderate number of Republicans believe in a woman's reproductive rights... so since that's the vast majority of Americans I guess then in your interpretation everyone not in lock step with you on this one issue is Hitler!

I'd love to see the holy roller crow show possibly half as much care for the all the poor & suffering families with children, children with severe birth defects, children in foster homes & orphanages and just people in general.

Instead of trying to dictate to women that they must follow some certain other persons religious dogma and do as they are told.

But I have no fear that American women are a whole lot smarter than to ever let that happen again!

 

[top gun]

Funny how when Pandora defends the innocent, you defend the guilty.

And Andy defends the stupid...

 

[PLC1]

For Gods sake, quit saying what you don’t want done and start saying what you are willing to do.



Imagine, you are in charge, your team has captured a known terrorist who has ties to either the Cole bombing, 911, pick a bombing... You know there is another plot to attack LA; you know this guy knows something about it. The chatter on the line says the attack on LA is coming soon. have to deal with this now...courts and judges come later but right now you must get information about the LA bombing.


Don’t say what you wont do, just say what you are willing to do, if anything to get information out of this guy....

I've already said what I'd be willing to do: Anything that is in line with the Geneva Convention.

Inventing a new name for the people in our custody, then ignoring the Geneva Convention, then debating how severely it's OK to torture them is simply not acceptable to a civilized society.

There's my answer. I know there are those who won't like it. Tough.

 

[BigRob]

I've already said what I'd be willing to do: Anything that is in line with the Geneva Convention.

Inventing a new name for the people in our custody, then ignoring the Geneva Convention, then debating how severely it's OK to torture them is simply not acceptable to a civilized society.

There's my answer. I know there are those who won't like it. Tough.

Obviously your response is not factual. What we classified these people as was entirely consistent with the Geneva Conventions. The Geneva Conventions clearly spell out that these people are not POW's, they are unlawful combatants. (or detainees as we call them)

Therefore it becomes an internal matter for the state and we can do whatever we want abiding by our own domestic laws. What we did was not illegal.

So if you really believe we can do anything that is allowed under the Geneva Conventions, you should have no problem with anything we did, because it was all allowed under the Conventions.

 

[PLC1]

Obviously your response is not factual. What we classified these people as was entirely consistent with the Geneva Conventions. The Geneva Conventions clearly spell out that these people are not POW's, they are unlawful combatants. (or detainees as we call them)

Therefore it becomes an internal matter for the state and we can do whatever we want abiding by our own domestic laws. What we did was not illegal.

So if you really believe we can do anything that is allowed under the Geneva Conventions, you should have no problem with anything we did, because it was all allowed under the Conventions.

Exactly. That's why I said:

Inventing a new name for the people in our custody, then ignoring the Geneva Convention, then debating how severely it's OK to torture them is simply not acceptable to a civilized society.

Making up a new term in order to skirt around an old rule is a well known tactic of political gamesmanship. It has been used over and over, by people of all political stripes.

Making up a new term "enemy combatant", and then saying that they aren't covered by the Geneva Convention, or by the Constitution, or by any other declaration or document supported by civilized nations, then proceeding to treat prisoners in an uncivilized manner is simply not what our nation is about, or at least not what it should be about.