What Interrogation Techniques are Acceptable?

Apparently water boarding is a very bad thing to do to people who wish to blow up our cities and kill our citizens but there are some liberals out there who want to see it just for the fun of it and are willing to pay to see it done, as long as it’s done to Americans they hate.


Keith Olbermann is one of those sick twisted freaks who seem to think the enemy of our country is Americans who don’t think like them. So he is willing to give to charity 1000 dollars for every minute that he gets to watch Sean Hannity get water boarded.


I hope Sean does it if for no other reason than Olbermann would have to actually give something to our troops.


Its so strange to me that there are Americans who want to see other Americans water boarded and are willing to pay to see it but how dare we do it to some terrorist who wants to blow up one of our cities. Every day I discover the left is more sick and more twisted than I thought the day before.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Sm8Os3mXv8


You've obviously and not surprisingly completely missed the point here.

When you have Radical Far Right Wing Nut Jobs like Sean Hannity praising torture. Basically saying anything America does no matter how dishonorable or violent to get information (good or bad) out of a detainee in our custody is fair game regardless of our own Military's rules or International Law just because our side is the one doing it... that would be the sick & twisted person.

Keith Olbermann is simply calling a Lunatic fearmongers bluff saying...

OK Sean if it's not so bad you go through it and then tell us about it first hand. But Sean Hannity is just another blowhard coward Right Wing talker.

He has neither the guts nor the strength of character to back up anything he says... that's the truth.
 
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You've obviously and not surprisingly completely missed the point here.

When you have Radical Far Right Wing Nut Jobs like Sean Hannity praising torture. Basically saying anything America does no matter how dishonorable or violent to get information (good or bad) out of a detainee in our custody is fair game regardless of our own Military's rules or International Law just because our side is the one doing it... that would be the sick & twisted person.

Keith Olbermann is simply calling a Lunatic fearmongers bluff saying...

OK Sean if it's not so bad you go through it and then tell us about it first hand. But Sean Hannity is just another blowhard coward Right Wing talker.

He has neither the guts nor the strength of character to back up anything he says... that's the truth.

I dont watch Sean Hannity every day but I doubt he said "anything America does no matter how dishonorable or violent to get information (good or bad) out of a detainee in our custody is fair game regardless of our own Military's rules or International Law just because our side is the one doing it..."

I stand by my statement. Olbermann is a sick twisted freak for wanting to pay to see an American water boarded but advocates not doing it for people who have attacked our cities and are trying to attack more of our cities.
 
Pandora Said: Its so strange to me that there are Americans who want to see other Americans water boarded and are willing to pay to see it but how dare we do it to some terrorist who wants to blow up one of our cities. Every day I discover the left is more sick and more twisted than I thought the day before.

And the one amazing fact that sets us {Americans} apart from the rest of the world and the homelands that we fled from...our judicial system...we are presumed innocent until proven guilty.

You just can't 'revenge against a nationality because of a few bad apples'...but then again your ilk and friends in high places seem to think along those lines and Hitler was allowed to utilize those tactics really well...he became an expert at them and attracted mindset followers that just enhanced the blue prints for torture!!! ;)

I think that 'common sense' Americans would fear that slippery slope that you seem so excited and anxious to rush towards...:eek:
 
And the one amazing fact that sets us {Americans} apart from the rest of the world and the homelands that we fled from...our judicial system...we are presumed innocent until proven guilty.

You just can't 'revenge against a nationality because of a few bad apples'...but then again your ilk and friends in high places seem to think along those lines and Hitler was allowed to utilize those tactics really well...he became an expert at them and attracted mindset followers that just enhanced the blue prints for torture!!! ;)

I think that 'common sense' Americans would fear that slippery slope that you seem so excited and anxious to rush towards...:eek:

Yeah my "ilk" doesnt ask to pay to see other Americans water boarded for entertainment, we save it for those who have attacked our Country and are planning future attacks. Though I think you got Hitler in with the wrong crowd... He most deserves to be with your boy obama!
 
What kind of crap is this for a reply? Where in my post did I say I was for shooting the knee caps off of anyone? Your post is pretty crappy; you are insinuating I am for some pretty sick and sadistic stuff that I never said I was for. But if you feel good about it then nothing else matters!

Not crappy, but flappy. It flapped its wings, and soared right over your head.

The point is this: If torture is OK, then it's OK. Where do we draw the line?

I can use the same argument about shooting kneecaps that has been used to promote waterboarding: It is certainly better than a terrorist attack that takes innocent lives.

As for the argument that waterboarding is not torture, that is simply not defensible. We did prosecute Japanese soldiers after WWII for having waterboarded our soldiers. It was torture when Pol Pot used it. It was torture when Torquemada used it. It was torture when we used it.

If you believe in the mutability of the past can you argue that waterboarding is not torture.


Nor is waterboarding the only form of torture that has been used.

It is simply indefensible for a nation that believes in human rights to engage in any sort of torture unless you do use the argument that it saves innocent lives.

And, if it does save innocent lives, more lives than it takes, then any sort of torture that works should be acceptable, shouldn't it?
 
Not crappy, but flappy. It flapped its wings, and soared right over your head.

The point is this: If torture is OK, then it's OK. Where do we draw the line?

I can use the same argument about shooting kneecaps that has been used to promote waterboarding: It is certainly better than a terrorist attack that takes innocent lives.

As for the argument that waterboarding is not torture, that is simply not defensible. We did prosecute Japanese soldiers after WWII for having waterboarded our soldiers. It was torture when Pol Pot used it. It was torture when Torquemada used it. It was torture when we used it.

If you believe in the mutability of the past can you argue that waterboarding is not torture.


Nor is waterboarding the only form of torture that has been used.

It is simply indefensible for a nation that believes in human rights to engage in any sort of torture unless you do use the argument that it saves innocent lives.

And, if it does save innocent lives, more lives than it takes, then any sort of torture that works should be acceptable, shouldn't it?


I believe the point of the thread was to say what you are willing to do in the event you have a terrorist prisoner who has information of his people attacking an American city.


I said the things I would be ok with doing and I also said the things I would not be ok with doing. The knee cap crap fit in with the things I would have not been ok with doing.


Why don’t you just do what Gen. asked and list the things you are comfortable doing instead of twisting other people’s posts?

You apparently think it was bad to put a caterpillar on a man, you made a rude comment about that. Is there any thing you’re willing to do to get the information of one of our cities being attacked? If its no, then just say there is nothing Im willing to do and stop twisting other people’s posts!
 
As for the argument that waterboarding is not torture, that is simply not defensible. We did prosecute Japanese soldiers after WWII for having waterboarded our soldiers. It was torture when Pol Pot used it. It was torture when Torquemada used it. It was torture when we used it.

The techniques to carry out the procedure were done quite differently in these cases. In those cases there was actual soft tissue damage, and prisoners were beat heavily while this occurred.

Further, if you believe in the Geneva Conventions then our uniformed captured soldiers should have been treated as POW's. The "detainees" that we have are not entitled to this protection. Therefore, we can try the Japanese soldiers for violating the Geneva Conventions whereas the people we have are not entitled to this protection and fall solely under domestic law. If waterboarding is not illegal under domestic law (and it was not) then it is a perfectly acceptable action.

Nor is waterboarding the only form of torture that has been used.

The other techniques were prepared and performed to ensure that no actual harm (in almost every case) came to the those they were being done on. If you want to cite a few other isolated cases as examples, we have tried all those involved already for that.
 
Not crappy, but flappy. It flapped its wings, and soared right over your head.

The point is this: If torture is OK, then it's OK. Where do we draw the line?

That's the whole point. We are debating whether or not one thing qualifies as "torture" over another. Simply hurting someone, without reason, is not an interrogation technique used to save lives.

Waterboarding a known terrorist mastermind with information that can save lives, but is refusing cooperate, IS.

I don't see it as torture, and I say it's ok. When you say torture, do you list off waterboarding people that revealed life saving information and helped us stop a future terrorist attack?

No, you go off about some out of control military people who violated everything they were supposed to do, to harm some captives and were rightfully court marshaled for it.

Those two events are not the same.

I can use the same argument about shooting kneecaps that has been used to promote waterboarding: It is certainly better than a terrorist attack that takes innocent lives.

Waterboarding does not cause massive intense suffering, nor does it permanently harm the individual. It simply simulates the feeling of drowning.

As for the argument that waterboarding is not torture, that is simply not defensible. We did prosecute Japanese soldiers after WWII for having waterboarded our soldiers. It was torture when Pol Pot used it. It was torture when Torquemada used it. It was torture when we used it.

Actually the Japanese soldiers were prosecuted for far more than waterboarding. Not to mention that we used waterboarding in Vietnam, Philippines. It's been used by the UK, France (shockingly) and a few other countries.

Nor is waterboarding the only form of torture that has been used.

It is simply indefensible for a nation that believes in human rights to engage in any sort of torture unless you do use the argument that it saves innocent lives.

And, if it does save innocent lives, more lives than it takes, then any sort of torture that works should be acceptable, shouldn't it?

No, only an interrogation method that doesn't cause "the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty."

Ramon Navarro, described being subjected to waterboarding. "Not so painful," he said, "but one becomes unconscious — like drowning in the water."

Again, you are mixing topics if you are going to refer to unauthorized and unacceptable practices that are not valid interrogation techniques.

Now, I'm all for not using enhanced interrogation methods, provided you have an alternative.
 
Not crappy, but flappy. It flapped its wings, and soared right over your head.

The point is this: If torture is OK, then it's OK. Where do we draw the line?


For Gods sake, quit saying what you don’t want done and start saying what you are willing to do.



Imagine, you are in charge, your team has captured a known terrorist who has ties to either the Cole bombing, 911, pick a bombing... You know there is another plot to attack LA; you know this guy knows something about it. The chatter on the line says the attack on LA is coming soon. have to deal with this now...courts and judges come later but right now you must get information about the LA bombing.


Don’t say what you wont do, just say what you are willing to do, if anything to get information out of this guy....
 
Ramon Navarro, described being subjected to waterboarding. "Not so painful," he said, "but one becomes unconscious — like drowning in the water."

And as much as, what is a pleasing visual art sensation...tolerance of pain and things that make us all shudder or scare the hell out of us are as uniquely ours as our 'finger prints'. For Ramon Navarro to postulate with so much bravado that his experience was "Not so painful"...well, that's just an asinine comment to make!!!

What were the specific parameters that his experience was inflected under: was he in a foreign country being blindfolded by people that he couldn't understand, was he mistreated in any other way, did he fully understand that his life was in serious peril, that this was a true matter of life or death. Comparisons have been made about tasering people too and yet there have been quite a few dead victims from that experience also.

Didn't the native Indians learn about taking scalps from the Spaniards, and didn't we good Americans utilize that 'taking of scalps' as a way to pay bounty on dead Indians'. We've made some serious improvements in our treatment and understanding of how inhumane we can become {without serious provocation} my concern and continued worry is; keep lowering that bar of what is unacceptable and we've lost centuries of evolved higher thinking and humane treatment!

Blind fold me and stick me into a box and put insects/bugs on me and you'll end up with a screaming-blithering-psychotic-blubbering-mass of human flesh that someone will need to change my depends on a regular basis...LOL And I'm not afraid of much...but closed in small dark places and things that I can't see will drive me into higher heart rate and a cold sweat!!

But as with my first statement in this post...not everyone would react the same way and for some of us to disregard the impact that those {they were only caterpillars} insects/bugs would have on blind folded prisoners is really, really a heartless/thoughtless statement! IMO
 
And as much as, what is a pleasing visual art sensation...tolerance of pain and things that make us all shudder or scare the hell out of us are as uniquely ours as our 'finger prints'. For Ramon Navarro to postulate with so much bravado that his experience was "Not so painful"...well, that's just an asinine comment to make!!!

What were the specific parameters that his experience was inflected under: was he in a foreign country being blindfolded by people that he couldn't understand, was he mistreated in any other way, did he fully understand that his life was in serious peril, that this was a true matter of life or death. Comparisons have been made about tasering people too and yet there have been quite a few dead victims from that experience also.

Didn't the native Indians learn about taking scalps from the Spaniards, and didn't we good Americans utilize that 'taking of scalps' as a way to pay bounty on dead Indians'. We've made some serious improvements in our treatment and understanding of how inhumane we can become {without serious provocation} my concern and continued worry is; keep lowering that bar of what is unacceptable and we've lost centuries of evolved higher thinking and humane treatment!

Blind fold me and stick me into a box and put insects/bugs on me and you'll end up with a screaming-blithering-psychotic-blubbering-mass of human flesh that someone will need to change my depends on a regular basis...LOL And I'm not afraid of much...but closed in small dark places and things that I can't see will drive me into higher heart rate and a cold sweat!!

But as with my first statement in this post...not everyone would react the same way and for some of us to disregard the impact that those {they were only caterpillars} insects/bugs would have on blind folded prisoners is really, really a heartless/thoughtless statement! IMO

So... what would you do to get information

you have said what you would not do but how about what are you wiilling to do to get information on a planned terrorist attack in LA or a major city that is happening in the next couple of weeks???
 
So... what would you do to get information

you have said what you would not do but how about what are you wiilling to do to get information on a planned terrorist attack in LA or a major city that is happening in the next couple of weeks???

We don't have to adapt/change/modify/create new techniques in torture...not when what they were able to achieve as a successful information flow from Saddam Hussein with the techniques that they used on him {no physical torture was ever done to him}. 4th time I've said it!
 
We don't have to adapt/change/modify/create new techniques in torture...not when what they able to achieve as a successful information flow from Saddam Hussein with the techniques that they used on him {no physical torture was ever done to him}. 3rd time I've said it!

So basicly you refuse to say what you would be willing to do to get information.

Lets try again...


Let’s start with small stuff…

Are you willing to refuse them…

Aspirin for a head ache?

Cigarettes if they smoke?

To be with other enemy’s who are detained

Snacks between meals?


Are you willing to do any of these things?

Get them up early for questioning?

Question them through out the day?

Firmly take them from point A to point B (rather than let them walk in their own sweet pace.)

Raise your voice at them?
 
I dont watch Sean Hannity every day but I doubt he said "anything America does no matter how dishonorable or violent to get information (good or bad) out of a detainee in our custody is fair game regardless of our own Military's rules or International Law just because our side is the one doing it..."

I stand by my statement. Olbermann is a sick twisted freak for wanting to pay to see an American water boarded but advocates not doing it for people who have attacked our cities and are trying to attack more of our cities.

You can stand by anything you like...:) but if you just follow their statements it's not like figuring out the Davinci Code to see Sean Hannity, Druggie Limbaugh and the like have NO PROBLEM rationalizing torture as a good thing America has a right to do.

And if you truly believe speaking out against torture is wrong and twisted then of course you wouldn't like Olbermann... that makes perfect sense.
 
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You can stand by anything you like...:) but if you just follow their statements it's not like figuring out the Davinci Code to see Sean Hannity, Druggie Limbaugh and the like have NO PROBLEM rationalizing torture as a good thing America has a right to do.

And if you truly believe speaking out against torture is wrong and twisted then of course you wouldn't like Olbermann... that makes perfect sense.

I have never liked Olbermann but I now have zero respect for him since he is willing to pay money to see another American water boarded for entertainment while arguing we should not do it to people who attacked our city.

I would be careful bringing up the druggie topic these days, we would not want to have the names of anyone connected to the white house thrown in the mix of names...that could really look bad for the Vice Presidents family you know!
 
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