Pandora
Well-Known Member
The problem is this. The Anti-Choice side wants full personhood at conception so even just a a few fertilized cells is a problem for them. Eventually even the Birth Control Pill would be too much for them. That's why the courts have decided "viability" is the time that after passed an abortion should not be performed. And that makes sense to me.
I don’t agree with abortion but I am not anti choice. I want the right to choose if I have to wear a seat belt, motor cycle helmet, I want lots of choices and I don’t want my frakin government to make them for me. You only talk about choice in the choice to kill your child, I talk about real choice to do what I want without my government telling me no. I think half the pro life people would be happy if they just limited abortions to the first 3 months, didn’t force tax payers to pay for them and the women having the abortions were educated SEREIOUSLY educated as to what they were doing. There will always be some who are trying to end all abortions just like there will always be some who insist on abortions up to the due date and even to refuse living children medical treatment because they are unwanted by their biological mothers.
And another thing you've said a few times really does need cleared up. It's in regard to two different things late term abortions... and President Obama & the "born alive" after van abortion issue. These have been vastly inaccurately portrayed.
sorry but obama is not only for partial birth abortion he has said he does not agree with the born alive infant protection act, he refused to let the bill come up when he was in charge in the senate and when someone else was in charge he voted present and later he voted no to the bill then he lied and said he would vote yes if it were like the federal bill then it came out that it was exactly like the federal bill. He can’t even say when life begins because it’s above his pay grade. I always thought Barbara boxer was the lowest form of human waste when it came to this topic but obama beats her even, who would have thought that was possible.
On late term abortion that ONLY happens in life of the mother and late term diagnosis of super extreme handicap. First off the woman's life ALWAYS trumps the fetus because there's just no way we'll ever make women die in childbirth against their will. And on the severe handicap that's a doctor saying things are so bad the baby probably wouldn't even live in the first place and if it did it's most likely in a vegetative state. Both these also seem reasonable to me.
This is not true, its “health” of the mother not life of the mother and when they say health it can mean anything from ill be depressed if I don’t get rid of this kid to what ever the doctor can come up with.
Using basic common sense Top Gun…. A woman is 8 ½ months pregnant, it turns out she for what ever reason will die if she carries this baby another two weeks so the doctor has to turn the baby so it comes out breach on purpose because if the head comes out it’s a baby… he induces labor and makes the woman deliver the baby feet first… so far the baby is alive and well.. feet are out, butt is out… the process is taking a long time, a c-section would be much faster or a normal delivery but to make sure you can stab the baby in the back of the neck before the head comes out (making a successful and legal abortion) you have the woman do the very dangerous process of a breach baby. So now everything but the head is out, the doctor now holds the head inside the woman till he can get the sharp object in the back of the babies head then he twists it till the little feet stop kicking and once he knows this baby is dead he lets the head come out.
Please Top Gun, using reasoning and logic how was that going to help or save this woman? You are kidding yourself if you think forcing a woman to have a baby breach then when the baby is finally almost out you hold the head in till you can kill the baby is doing ANYTHING for the life of this mother and I use that term mother very loose when it comes to this.
On the Obama "born live" vote you have to remember that the medical board in Illinois had the exact same opinion on the issue. They reality is that if a fetus survived an abortion it would set up a system where they then had to try and reverse all the damage done from the abortion to save a fetus... 99. something % of the time impossible. Then that opened them up to massive lawsuits from the mother who wanted and paid for an abortion. So the decision was made, no life saving effort after a abortion. So there is reasons for this. It's not at all like those on the Right tend to portray it. The doctors wanted it this way.
The born alive infant protection act is now law and no thanks to obama or the corrupt Illinois board. He was wrong they were wrong Barbara boxer is wrong and the act is a law now.
Taxpayers don't pay anything for abortions, they are paid for at the time of service... so we're in agreement here.
Taxpayers don’t pay anything for abortion? Are you high ? making a joke or really you don’t know.
Obama has changed the rules, we do pay for abortions and not only that we pay for abortions in china now. Its kind of funny we borrow money from china to keep the government working then we pay for their abortions. Tax payers do pay for abortions and we will be paying to cut up aborted babies to do experiments on too, and we will pay to clone aborted babies so we can cut them up and learn god knows what. But Michael j. fox will be happy and all the others who feel they matter more than others.
I don't see any reason to put the woman through any forced classes on abortions. Every woman knows what an abortion is. This is not something taken lightly.
That is bull, I did not know. I asked if I was going to kill a baby, the doctor said no. he said it’s a mass of tissue. It was 3 years later on a date to the local fair that I found out exactly what I had done. I had a mental break down right in front of the right to life booth. All information I had asked for but said didn’t exist. I was removing a tumor.
And we are in agreement that more should be done to first promote ways not to get pregnant and secondly to help fund programs that would help women that choose to have a child. The problem here is whether it's right or wrong it's the Conservatives that fight this type of funding tooth & nail in fact constantly trying to cut back on the current spending levels for things like you have recommended.
I don’t want government funded programs to educate people seeing abortions or educate people mothering their children, that can be done by private citizens.
So we have some common ground which is good. To be honest I'd love to see a compromise... but it will never happen because both sides want it all their way.
there will always be the extreme people who insist on killing in the 9th month or after the baby is born and there will always be those who think children, all children have a right to life… though I don’t think all women have a right to be a mother.
If say there was an agreement between the Right & Left for a bipartisan Constitutional Amendment to be put forward that a woman had a guaranteed right to an abortion but the time-line was pushed back to say just a little over the first trimester... between 3 & 4 months... I would probably see that as a compromise to consider.
id be happy to see that but ill always want education on what your doing, I learned first hand that they don’t tell you. Not only do they not tell you that the 3 month baby inside of you had its own heart and DNA they don’t tell you that abortion can make having a baby later harder, also there are studies but I don’t think its provable that people who get abortions are more inclined to getting cervical cancer.
But like I said before... we still managed to find some common ground which is a start.
yeah we fought lots less this time didn’t we