US administration to abolish due process

[pocketfullofshells]

Given all of the above, how can we even think about giving the Taliban a part in the new government of Afganistan? And, if we don't, just how much longer are the American people going to be willing to fight a never ending war?

And, if the Taliban is not a terrorist organization, it is most certainly harboring terrorists and using them in its struggle to boot us out of Afghanistan and take over the country once again.

And how is a organization that plants cars bombs in time square...not a terrorist group?

I disagree about the Taliban not playing any role in the government of Afghanistan...I think its a fact we must deal with, while trying to get the most Radical out still. They had far to much power to start with and to much influence to completely get rid of them...like trying to get rid of all the Bathist in Iraq...with but a lot harder, with more support from people.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

This is the most silly ass thread I've seen in a long time.

The IF propaganda machine, plus its recruiting program, will just sort of collapse if we get rid of gitmo? What naive pap.

I'm sure its all over your head...see what you see here with me, Rob, and PLC1 is a real debate...where we actually post facts and listen to each other...you can feel to try it sometime.

 

[BigRob]

Given all of the above, how can we even think about giving the Taliban a part in the new government of Afganistan?

We don't have to include them in the new government to accomplish the goal of "denying them the ability to overthrow the government."

And, if we don't, just how much longer are the American people going to be willing to fight a never ending war?

I don't know how long the American people will continue to support the war. President Obama has promised a draw down to begin in July 2011 (at least for what we "surged"), so we will see how that goes and the progress we have made.

And, if the Taliban is not a terrorist organization, it is most certainly harboring terrorists and using them in its struggle to boot us out of Afganistan and take over the country once again.

I don't disagree that the Taliban should be added to the list, but they are not, and there are some good reasons for it in my opinion.

Additionally, in many cases, we must accept that the Taliban hates Al Qaeda. We have to remember that the Taliban lost power because of Al Qaeda and in many cases (more now than before) do not want to work with them.

Additionally, there are now Pakistani offshoots of the Taliban etc, so we need to be clear just which groups we are talking about.

 

[BigRob]

And how is a organization that plants cars bombs in time square...not a terrorist group?

That was not the Afghan Taliban, it was the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan, which is a separate group.

I disagree about the Taliban not playing any role in the government of Afghanistan...I think its a fact we must deal with, while trying to get the most Radical out still. They had far to much power to start with and to much influence to completely get rid of them...like trying to get rid of all the Bathist in Iraq...with but a lot harder, with more support from people.

I think at most some of the Taliban could be included, but I don't think it will be a necessity.

 

[GenSeneca]

its a great recruiting tool, and its hard to win hearts and minds ( what we where trying to do in Iraq and Afghanistan) when your views as someone torturing there people...while your claiming to free them.

Riiiiight.... The US is sooooo much more brutal and oppressive to the people of those countries than were Saddam Hussein and the Taliban.

If the US put the "detainees" in 5 star hotels and treated them like royalty, there would still be nations, and some individual jackasses, that called our treatment of those people "torture" and claim that our actions were counterproductive to our goals.

 

[PLC1]

We don't have to include them in the new government to accomplish the goal of "denying them the ability to overthrow the government."



.

No, but fighting the Taliban until they're no longer an issue is going to take many years. No one really knows how long, but it seems likely to be much longer than the US voter is going to be willing to support a war that never seems to get anywhere.

There really is no good solution to the problem of fighting the Taliban. Maybe it's time to either cut our losses and get out now, or to go in with guns blazing and just wipe them out, "collateral damage" be damned. I'm really not sure what we should do at this point, other than pause and reflect before becoming embroiled in a similar conflict in the future.

 

[GenSeneca]

And how is a organization that plants cars bombs in time square...not a terrorist group?

I disagree about the Taliban not playing any role in the government of Afghanistan...I think its a fact we must deal with, while trying to get the most Radical out still. They had far to much power to start with and to much influence to completely get rid of them...like trying to get rid of all the Bathist in Iraq...with but a lot harder, with more support from people.

The same things could have been said about the Nazi's in Germany... How did we eliminate the Nazi's from Germany? It wasn't by giving the "moderate" ones seats in the new government.

 

[BigRob]

No, but fighting the Taliban until they're no longer an issue is going to take many years. No one really knows how long, but it seems likely to be much longer than the US voter is going to be willing to support a war that never seems to get anywhere.

Afghanistan is going to be a long war.. I have my doubts we will get out of there during President Obama's time in office, even if he is elected to another term.

There really is no good solution to the problem of fighting the Taliban. Maybe it's time to either cut our losses and get out now, or to go in with guns blazing and just wipe them out, "collateral damage" be damned. I'm really not sure what we should do at this point, other than pause and reflect before becoming embroiled in a similar conflict in the future.

Well, the military has gotten pretty good at running counter-insurgency operations, let us hope the July 2011 report offers some good news.

 

[BigRob]

The same things could have been said about the Nazi's in Germany... How did we eliminate the Nazi's from Germany? It wasn't by giving the "moderate" ones seats in the new government.

To be fair, we did not eliminate the Nazi's by banning anyone who had any affiliation with the party from playing a role in post war Germany either.

 

[Rick]

To be fair, we did not eliminate the Nazi's by banning anyone who had any affiliation with the party from playing a role in post war Germany either.

That was only because all the people who ran everything were in the party, and they were the only ones who could keep the society from disintegrating.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Riiiiight.... The US is sooooo much more brutal and oppressive to the people of those countries than were Saddam Hussein and the Taliban.

If the US put the "detainees" in 5 star hotels and treated them like royalty, there would still be nations, and some individual jackasses, that called our treatment of those people "torture" and claim that our actions were counterproductive to our goals.

cough cough straw man? what?

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Afghanistan is going to be a long war.. I have my doubts we will get out of there during President Obama's time in office, even if he is elected to another term.



Well, the military has gotten pretty good at running counter-insurgency operations, let us hope the July 2011 report offers some good news.

Yes it would take along time to finish this war...average for Most COIN ops is some 10 years, and I think to be fair we can't count half of Bush's time as it was spent ignoring it more or less ...
But politically its not going to last unless we do something big fast...the left is weary and with 2012 coming up, I am sure many republicans will start useing it to attack Obama...and done or not troops will start to head back...I fear years later we will pay a price for this.

 

[Apathy]

1)Riiiiight.... The US is sooooo much more brutal and oppressive to the people of those countries than were Saddam Hussein and the Taliban.

2)If the US put the "detainees" in 5 star hotels and treated them like royalty, there would still be nations, and some individual jackasses, that called our treatment of those people "torture" and claim that our actions were counterproductive to our goals.

1) Right and we rode in on a white horse to save the day.

2) I dont think holding people without cause waterboarding them, beating them, and sodomizing them qualifies as the royal treatment.

 

[BigRob]

Yes it would take along time to finish this war...average for Most COIN ops is some 10 years, and I think to be fair we can't count half of Bush's time as it was spent ignoring it more or less ...
But politically its not going to last unless we do something big fast...the left is weary and with 2012 coming up, I am sure many republicans will start useing it to attack Obama...and done or not troops will start to head back...I fear years later we will pay a price for this.

The President (in his public statements) has seemed to indicate that July 2011 is a hard deadline for when some troops are going to head home... Some of his advisers have indicated that the deadline is not a hard one, so we shall see...

I would say some troops are going to be coming home prior to 2012, but it does not mean we will be out of there, or that the war is won etc.

As an aside, we are not pursuing the typical COIN strategy in Afghanistan, because it is simply not feasible...rather it is a modified version that does not seek to obtain all the typical goals.

 

[BigRob]

That was only because all the people who ran everything were in the party, and they were the only ones who could keep the society from disintegrating.

And why is it a totally different scenario with the Baath Party, or even to an extent the Taliban?