Gitmo, gitclosed

[BigRob]

If you spin-doctoring idjits would take a breather for a minute, you'd figure out that the prison could be kept warm but the surroundings (should an escape plan be hatched) would be forbidding to leave. Warm inside, ice outside...

And there's more. I get this feeling like we need to be guarding our Alaskan flank. A beefed presence of the military there might not be a bad idea. They can guard the prison for now..

What a bunch of naysayers you are. Bunz comes up with a great plan and you babies whine because it might work. All you can do is critcize while our nation spirals down the poop hole. Turn down the Flush Limbaugh, turn up your sleeves, shut your yaps and get to work.. Or are your conservative values in name only? Hmmmm?

The whole purpose of GITMO was to prevent detainees from getting onto US soil, and thus falling under jurisdiction of US court. An island in Alaska, no matter how remote, does not fit this criteria.

 

[Pandora]

The whole purpose of GITMO was to prevent detainees from getting onto US soil, and thus falling under jurisdiction of US court. An island in Alaska, no matter how remote, does not fit this criteria.

Great point Rob!!!

 

[Sihouette]

The whole purpose of GITMO was to prevent detainees from getting onto US soil.

It sounds so clean when you spin it that way! No, we know that the whole purpose of interring prisoners offshore isn't because we didn't have a facility here that could hold them, it was to circumvent American law.

I look forward to your next spin on the edge of my chair..


Hey, maybe you could make it about why it was necessary for Cheney's Kangaroo CIA to spy on ordinary citizens email and phone conversations about anything or nothing at all? Yes, spin that one for me too. You're on a roll!

 

[BigRob]

It sounds so clean when you spin it that way! No, we know that the whole purpose of interring prisoners offshore isn't because we didn't have a facility here that could hold them, it was to circumvent American law.

I look forward to your next spin on the edge of my chair..

I am not sure what else you thought it was for. If you bring the "detainees" to US soil you are unable to hold them indefinitely without classifying them as "POW's."

If you classify them as POW's then you by extension adopt the Protocols of the Geneva Conventions that we intentionally refused to sign on to for the sole purpose of not allowing terror movements and groups such as the PLO to get Geneva Conventions protections.

Further, classification as "POW's" brings in a whole list of new rules that we must abide by when holding these people. It also raises the question that in a war such as this (crossing borders, fighting non-state actors) how do you determine when the "war" is actually over? Without this distinction, it then becomes next to impossible to abide by the Geneva Conventions for "POW's" because the war will legally never end.

Hey, maybe you could make it about why it was necessary for Cheney's Kangaroo CIA to spy on ordinary citizens email and phone conversations about anything or nothing at all? Yes, spin that one for me too. You're on a roll!

Ok... I will. Congress approved it. Have a problem with it, talk to your Congressperson.

 

[Sihouette]

Congress (dems and repub) approved spying on anyone's emails and phone conversations for any reason? Hmmmm...I'll have to get back to you on that one..

If you classify them as POW's then you by extension adopt the Protocols of the Geneva Conventions that we intentionally refused to sign on to for the sole purpose of not allowing terror movements and groups such as the PLO to get Geneva Conventions protections.

So by extension then, you have no problem with american POWs being treated exactly like the Gitmo detainees?

OK, *scribbles in notebook*...so that's BigRob for torture on american POWs...

*scribble scribble*...

 

[BigRob]

Congress (dems and repub) approved spying on anyone's emails and phone conversations for any reason? Hmmmm...I'll have to get back to you on that one..

Congress, through the AUMF, gave the President a clear statute to go around FISA. In fact the FISA legislation spells this out clearly. Further, it has been held at the district court level that actions undertaken such as this do not constitute a violation of the 4th amendment.

Of course, after the NSA controversy, Congress (both D and R) came back to pass a bill that enabled this practice to go on.

So by extension then, you have no problem with american POWs being treated exactly like the Gitmo detainees?

Of course you blatantly ignore the POW/Detainee distinction. You also blatantly ignore that American POW's captured by these groups get no good treatment.

Further, I would have a problem with American "POW's" being treated poorly in a state vs state conflict. I would also have a problem with the United States treating POW's in a manner inconsistent with the Geneva Conventions. However, these detainees are not POW's. The Geneva Conventions does not apply to organizations such as this... they do not apply to us, nor should we apply it to them, especially in a state vs non-state actor conflict such as this.

 

[Sihouette]

Of course you blatantly ignore the POW/Detainee distinction

I don't often use the word: ROFLMAO, but here it is relevant. I nearly fell off my chair laughing at this spin. Please...not so early...*ach*...my tummy hurts...stop!

The distinction? You mean like between a donkey and a jackass? I'm SURE the enemy will be all about your "distinction" when it's time to handle captured American "detainees" abroad.

Sir, your spindoctoring has spun out of control. You need to get your spinners rotated and balanced at the nearest GOP service center. You're a walking road hazard!

 

[The Scotsman]

I am not sure what else you thought it was for. If you bring the "detainees" to US soil you are unable to hold them indefinitely without classifying them as "POW's."

........lovely......but now that you've had your fill of these nasty wee fellas why is your Government trying to offload them onto the UK and Europe!!!???? You lot damned well nabbed em you sort it out......

 

[samsara15]

We would have harmed our image less had we executed them in cold blood long ago. Keeping them as eternal prisoners has only shown the weakness of our charges against them.

 

[samsara15]

Conservatives just don't seem to realize how shameful and damaging to our nation's reputation the mere existence of Gitmo has been.

 

[Sihouette]

It's not just damaging. Wilfully and craftily circumventing the Constitution is treasonous; and worse, it endangers the lives and well-being of our own uniformed personelle that might be captured as "detainees" themselves abroad.

The "distinction" between detainees and POWs...Jesus H. Christ...

 

[BigRob]

I don't often use the word: ROFLMAO, but here it is relevant. I nearly fell off my chair laughing at this spin. Please...not so early...*ach*...my tummy hurts...stop!

Great legal response....

The distinction? You mean like between a donkey and a jackass? I'm SURE the enemy will be all about your "distinction" when it's time to handle captured American "detainees" abroad.

Your analogies are meaningless. The law makes a distinction. Time to deal with it.

As for our "enemies" they make no distinction. In fact, they cannot be bothered with the Geneva Conventions.

Sir, your spindoctoring has spun out of control. You need to get your spinners rotated and balanced at the nearest GOP service center. You're a walking road hazard!

If pointing out what the law says is "spinning" then you are correct I guess. Since you are the one hell bent on following the law, there is the law, and we are following it.

 

[BigRob]

........lovely......but now that you've had your fill of these nasty wee fellas why is your Government trying to offload them onto the UK and Europe!!!???? You lot damned well nabbed em you sort it out......

Because we do not want them on US soil. Hence the genius of the Bush administration for not closing GITMO before solving that little problem... Of course maybe you could "hope" for a "change."

 

[BigRob]

Conservatives just don't seem to realize how shameful and damaging to our nation's reputation the mere existence of Gitmo has been.

Has it been shameful and damaging... sure. Does that mean it was not necessary? No. Does that mean that we do not continue to have the same problems as before? No. Does that mean that I am willing to place reputation over security? No.

 

[BigRob]

It's not just damaging. Wilfully and craftily circumventing the Constitution is treasonous; and worse, it endangers the lives and well-being of our own uniformed personelle that might be captured as "detainees" themselves abroad.

Endangers the lives and well-beings of our people? What planet are you on? Not a single group that we are fighting honors the Geneva Conventions... nor have they ever...

I will tell you what happens to their detainees (aka Americans)... they get their heads cut off. Heaven forbid however that we keep them in a cold room.

The "distinction" between detainees and POWs...Jesus H. Christ...

It's a clear legal distinction. Your personal opinion on the matter is meaningless.