Traditional family key to world peace: Pope

[numinus]

No, of course reparations are not an act of concealment. The reparations are so huge because it has been proven in court over and over again that the hierarchy of the church knew about the pedophile priests and moved them around to keep them CONCEALED for decades.

That is a criminal offense. No amount of money can get anyone off a criminal offense -- except with the consent of the 'alleged' victim.

 

[Coyote]

My mistake. Perhaps I said that to you in another forum.

However - WHY can't those rights be extended to her lesbian partner because, as a partner - the rights of both children are fully protected.



In view of the rights of children, they are protected how?

The rights of the children are protected the same as they would be were her partner a male.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

That is a criminal offense. No amount of money can get anyone off a criminal offense -- except with the consent of the 'alleged' victim.

In a general sense that is correct, but Papal Dispensations can be purchased to get one out of an illconceived marriage.

You're right the Catholic Church's actions are criminal, the egregious nature of them dictate the huge reparations even after the offenders have been jailed.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Have you ever been tear-gassed, clubbed or shot at (with live bullets -- their much cheaper than the rubber ones) for a conviction you hold?

Keep your silly student activism to yourself. There are more urgent ideals in the real world worth fighting for than the one you are peddling right now.

I'm not sure what the connection is between you and other old bigots dying of old age and my being shot at.

I'm sure that the "student activism" of the young people who have a committment to equality is painful to you, you wish to deny rights to others that you demand for yourself.

Human rights and equality are real world ideals and the very ones that have been fought for again and again. Who do we have to fight against? Well, the bigots, the people like yourself who hate, the people who would pass laws to discriminate against those they have judged to be "less than" themselves.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

The only difference is that with blacks and women, the arguments have logical basis.

No logic can be reasonably discerned from your sorry attempt at debate.

You're like a cardboard cut-out of a bigot, you use the same tired phrases that have been used over and over. When black people wanted to be full citizens the racists used the same statement you just did when civil rights for blacks was compared to civil rights for women. It was reasonable for women to have civil rights but it wasn't logical to give rights to blacks.

A few years ago you would have been campaigning against interracial marriage--what will it be a decade from now when gay and trans-people are acknowledged as normal people?

 

[Jarlaxle]

I think his head might explode.

 

[numinus]

The rights of the children are protected the same as they would be were her partner a male.

In that case, there would be no reason to assert that particular article in the udhr -- that the family is the NATURAL AND FUNDAMENTAL GROUP UNIT OF SOCIETY.

Nor would the right of a child to grow up with natural parents particularly logical, wouldn't it?

 

[numinus]

In a general sense that is correct, but Papal Dispensations can be purchased to get one out of an illconceived marriage.

You're right the Catholic Church's actions are criminal, the egregious nature of them dictate the huge reparations even after the offenders have been jailed.

That would be true IF (and that is a very big if) complicity within the entire church heirarchy can be proven.

And that is why you're opinions are clearly bigotted -- since the lack of proof of complicity established in a court of law does not stop you from attacking all christians.

Sort of like the actions of a rabid dog -- no discernable human reason, whatsoever.

 

[numinus]

I'm not sure what the connection is between you and other old bigots dying of old age and my being shot at.

The connection, if it still eludes you, is that your particular brand of student activism is more like petty adventurism dabbled on by the ignorant or gullible than anything.

Clear enough?

I'm sure that the "student activism" of the young people who have a committment to equality is painful to you, you wish to deny rights to others that you demand for yourself.

I'm sure that 'student activism' of the homosexual variety has absolutely nothing, whatsoever, to do with egalitarianism. That line of thought is pure imagination on your part.

Human rights and equality are real world ideals and the very ones that have been fought for again and again. Who do we have to fight against? Well, the bigots, the people like yourself who hate, the people who would pass laws to discriminate against those they have judged to be "less than" themselves.

You only have a right to exercise homosexuality. You do not have a right to impose this on everyone else -- certainly not on the legal institutions of the state nor on the children you mean to adopt.

 

[numinus]

You're like a cardboard cut-out of a bigot, you use the same tired phrases that have been used over and over.

LOL

Logic is meant to be used over and over again because its ALWAYS true.

Duh?

When black people wanted to be full citizens the racists used the same statement you just did when civil rights for blacks was compared to civil rights for women. It was reasonable for women to have civil rights but it wasn't logical to give rights to blacks.

You are incapable of presenting any logical argument for your opinion. Otherwise, you would have given one right now instead of dwelling on blacks and women.

A few years ago you would have been campaigning against interracial marriage--what will it be a decade from now when gay and trans-people are acknowledged as normal people?

That would be the day psych evaluations for trans-gender operations is no longer necessary.

 

[numinus]

I think his head might explode.

You forgot to laugh like a simian with that equally non-sensical post.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

That would be true IF (and that is a very big if) complicity within the entire church heirarchy can be proven.

And that is why you're opinions are clearly bigotted -- since the lack of proof of complicity established in a court of law does not stop you from attacking all christians.

Sort of like the actions of a rabid dog -- no discernable human reason, whatsoever.

The church's complicity has been established over and over again, Nums, why do you think the church is paying so much in reparations? It ain't out of the goodness of their little Christian hearts. The courts have mandated the huge payouts as punitive damages. So the courts are like rabid dogs? This is Num logic.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

The connection, if it still eludes you, is that your particular brand of student activism is more like petty adventurism dabbled on by the ignorant or gullible than anything.Clear enough?

I appreciate the kudos you give me for being in some way responsible for the egalitarian attitudes of the current crop of college students, but the unfortunate truth is that I'm not really in charge, all I do is go and talk to the kids about transsexuality (which you have so far been incapable of understanding is not homosexuality--this is where the "bigotry" comes in since bigotry is a fine mix of ignorance and fear) and when they talk back to me it becomes clear that they don't have the same ingrained bigotry of folks like you. It's encouraging really.

I'm sure that 'student activism' of the homosexual variety has absolutely nothing, whatsoever, to do with egalitarianism. That line of thought is pure imagination on your part.

Not being able to encompass the concept of egalitarianism probably prevents you from saying anything logical on the subject. I recall a post wherein you said that you didn't talk about things of which you were ignorant. But yet you've posted rather a lot on transsexuality. I suppose along with your Num logic you also have Num honesty.

You only have a right to exercise homosexuality. You do not have a right to impose this on everyone else -- certainly not on the legal institutions of the state nor on the children you mean to adopt.

Black people have the right to be black just as long as they don't get uppity and want to go to our schools, eat in our restaurants, drink from our water fountains, or marry our women. Oh yeah, they can't be treated equally under the law either--another perfect example of Num logic.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

LOLLogic is meant to be used over and over again because its ALWAYS true. Duh?

No, what is considered "logic" changes as our knowledge base changes--or at least it does in the people who actually learn.

You are incapable of presenting any logical argument for your opinion. Otherwise, you would have given one right now instead of dwelling on blacks and women.

As I have noted, bigotry always is the same, it's only the target that changes as the culture changes. Of course every generation of bigots likes to characterize themselves as the keepers of God's Own Truth, but that's just a self-serving lie to pump up their tiny egos. Why do bigots even bother to spend so much time hurting and hating? Because the only way they can feel better about themselves is to crap on others. Always a minority too, because bigots are also cowards.

Why don't the Nums of the world take on a real issue that is pervasive worldwide, an intractable issue that has killed more people than all the wars, an issue that has dogged civilization forever? Like Poverty. Well, they won't take it on because it's too big, they look for easy targets in the form of small minorities. Another reason is that working to end poverty might require them to change the way THEY are, but that's scary--and anyway they're perfect right now, right Nums? Ignorant, fearful, cowards attacking those who don't have the numbers to fight back.

That would be the day psych evaluations for trans-gender operations is no longer necessary.

This is my favorite part of your post because after several references like this it clearly demonstrates another area of Num bigotry (fear/ignorance). A lot of people find any kind of medical care for the psyche to be shameful, if you get counseling, then you must be crazy. This is a really weird idea in a country where almost the whole population takes mood altering drugs. The Nums of the world are once again holding back progress by stigmatizing people who utilize the advances of modern medicine.

This is also a good example of circular reasoning. Nums has decided that anyone who is trans has to be insane/bonkers. If we don't get counseling or psyche evaluations then that proves that we're bonkers, but if we do get them, that proves that we're bonkers. Nice Num logic again.

In truth, the counseling we get is really useful in learning to deal with the Nums of the world who don't know and--BY GOD!--aren't going to learn anything, thus demonstrating that fine mix of Num logic, Num ignorance, and Num cowardice the produces what we see here on the site: Num bigotry.

 

[Coyote]

In that case, there would be no reason to assert that particular article in the udhr -- that the family is the NATURAL AND FUNDAMENTAL GROUP UNIT OF SOCIETY.

Nor would the right of a child to grow up with natural parents particularly logical, wouldn't it?

The UDHR makes the following references to family:

Article 16.

(1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.

(2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.

(3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.[/B]

It doesn't limit the family to "natural" and it doesnt' do that for a reason. Many families are single parent families, grandparents raising thier grandchildren, or extended family networks. I think it is important to not strictly define family because to do so places cultural imperatives over people.