The real questions are

[AlicornsPrayer]

The author above is ignoring Obama's mother's second marriage, to a muslim named Lolo Soetoro, with whom Obama lived for several years while growing up, before his mother got divorced. Obama spent most of his childhood growing up in Indonesia, the world's largest islamic country. None of this may have affected Obama's belief system, but let's tell the WHOLE truth, shall we?

Obama describes life with his stepfather in his autobiography:

"With Lolo, I learned how to eat small green chili peppers raw with dinner (plenty of rice), and away from the dinner table, I was introduced to dog meat (tough), snake meat (tougher), and roasted grasshopper (crunchy)," Obama wrote. "LIke many Indonesians, Lolo followed a brand of Islam that could make room for the remnants of more ancient animist and Hindu faiths. He explained that a man took on the powers of whatever he ate: One day soon, he promised, he would bring home a piece of tiger meat for us to share."

Ugh!

Obama only lived from ages 4-10 in Indonesia...The rest of the time, he grew up in Hawaii, till he went to college on the main land here in the states. 6 years doesn't constitute 'the most of his childhood' period. Ages 1-4, and 10-18 in Hawaii is 12 years growing up here in the US, with his grandparents and mother. Of who, like I said, were Christian.

So again...The truth of the situation is being exaggerated about his supposed 'Muslim' upbringing in order to foster fear in the voter...Period.

And sorry darling...But the idea of that the type of meat you eat, brings that animal's powers into yourself isn't 'Islamic'...In fact, it's a very pagan rooted belief that is found alot within the Native American teachings, as well as in Asian-Buddhist/Hindu/Taoims/Dharmic traditions.

The Chinese and Japanese (which the majority are Buddhist) are the biggest/best known societies today that incorporate that belief into their every day living practices...In fact they sell/prepare herbals, teas, etc. containing exotic animal parts for those specific 'cures/endowments'.

Other traditions/cultures/practices that incorporate this ideology are Romani, Vodun, Shinto, Druidism, etc...Just to name a few that is.

From the portion you quoted, what he was describing was traditional Hindu ideology and is supported by his comments about his step-father incorporating 'more ancient and Hindu faiths' into his own...More ancient then Hindu. Simply because although Hinduism doesnt' say it's wrong to eat meat, most meats are taboo except for mutton, chicken, and fish...

Islamics on the other hand, share the same taboos about meat that Judaism has...which it is taboo to have eaten the meats by Islamic ideology, that Obama mentions they had had...Which actually is a more Asian Buddhist ideology at work...What you eat, endows you with it's powers. And dog is a favored specialty in that area of the world...As is snake and grasshoppers...All fair game/food...

Only in Western Civilization is eating dog outlawed, although the other mentioned foods are eaten as delicasies in the West...

Now the Tiger is different, as Western Civilizations have outlawed eating extinct/near extinct species...But in Asian and Middle Western Cultures? That's a whole different kettle of fish, so to speak...As although it's looked down upon because of extinct species subject, their goverments don't exactly enforce laws against doing so for their citizens.

 

[uguysarfruts]

Obama only lived from ages 4-10 in Indonesia...The rest of the time, he grew up in Hawaii, till he went to college on the main land here in the states. 6 years doesn't constitute 'the most of his childhood' period. Ages 1-4, and 10-18 in Hawaii is 12 years growing up here in the US, with his grandparents and mother. Of who, like I said, were Christian.

So again...The truth of the situation is being exaggerated about his supposed 'Muslim' upbringing in order to foster fear in the voter...Period.

And sorry darling...But the idea of that the type of meat you eat, brings that animal's powers into yourself isn't 'Islamic'...In fact, it's a very pagan rooted belief that is found alot within the Native American teachings, as well as in Asian-Buddhist/Hindu/Taoims/Dharmic traditions.

The Chinese and Japanese (which the majority are Buddhist) are the biggest/best known societies today that incorporate that belief into their every day living practices...In fact they sell/prepare herbals, teas, etc. containing exotic animal parts for those specific 'cures/endowments'.

Other traditions/cultures/practices that incorporate this ideology are Romani, Vodun, Shinto, Druidism, etc...Just to name a few that is.

From the portion you quoted, what he was describing was traditional Hindu ideology and is supported by his comments about his step-father incorporating 'more ancient and Hindu faiths' into his own...More ancient then Hindu. Simply because although Hinduism doesnt' say it's wrong to eat meat, most meats are taboo except for mutton, chicken, and fish...

Islamics on the other hand, share the same taboos about meat that Judaism has...which it is taboo to have eaten the meats by Islamic ideology, that Obama mentions they had had...Which actually is a more Asian Buddhist ideology at work...What you eat, endows you with it's powers. And dog is a favored specialty in that area of the world...As is snake and grasshoppers...All fair game/food...

Only in Western Civilization is eating dog outlawed, although the other mentioned foods are eaten as delicasies in the West...

Now the Tiger is different, as Western Civilizations have outlawed eating extinct/near extinct species...But in Asian and Middle Western Cultures? That's a whole different kettle of fish, so to speak...As although it's looked down upon because of extinct species subject, their goverments don't exactly enforce laws against doing so for their citizens.

You obviously need to move to Africa and become a victim of your stupidity, if you are white, you are a race traitor, and when i think of people like you, I think of fish food.

 

[AlicornsPrayer]

You obviously need to move to Africa and become a victim of your stupidity, if you are white, you are a race traitor, and when i think of people like you, I think of fish food.

ROTFLMAOL!!!

In otherwords, you didn't like the fact that the other poster's falsehoods about a canidate was just that...Falsehoods. So the only retort you have, is to hurl insults towards me, depending on whether I'm black or white?

Sorry that you can't handle facts and rather support innuendos and falsehoods about another person, no matter what color thier skin color is/isn't or religious beliefs are/aren't...

And thanks for sharing with me, that you're a racist and don't have anything to contribute but racist slurs and verbal abuses to those you percieve as 'different' then your narrow-minded self.

Oh, and by the way hon?

Indonesia isn't in Africa...So your reference to Africa had not a thing to do with the topic that was being discussed. Kenya might be...But the discussion was supposedly Obama having lived in Indonesia most of his childhood...Do try to keep up with what was being discussed...

 

[Segep]

Reason: to stick my foot up your ass

Put that thing away before you hurt yourself.

 

[Libsmasher]

.

Obama only lived from ages 4-10 in Indonesia...The rest of the time, he grew up in Hawaii, till he went to college on the main land here in the states. 6 years doesn't constitute 'the most of his childhood' period. Ages 1-4, and 10-18 in Hawaii is 12 years growing up here in the US, with his grandparents and mother. Of who, like I said, were Christian.

1 to 12 is childhood, 13 - 19 is teenage, 20 is adulthood. He spent 8 years of his childhood with a muslim father or stepfather - you're wrong, sweets. Obama was also named after Muhammad's grandson. Prez of the United States?? C'monnnnnnnnn.

 

[9sublime]

1 to 12 is childhood, 13 - 19 is teenage, 20 is adulthood. He spent 8 years of his childhood with a muslim father or stepfather - you're wrong, sweets. Obama was also named after Muhammad's grandson. Prez of the United States?? C'monnnnnnnnn.

Let's say hypothetically, he spent his whole chidlhood being Muslim, and his teenage years, and maybe even a young adult. It doens't mean its impossible for him to convert does it?

Stop being so pathetic, all of you. What you are born into does not neccessarily constitute who you are.

 

[AlicornsPrayer]

1 to 12 is childhood, 13 - 19 is teenage, 20 is adulthood. He spent 8 years of his childhood with a muslim father or stepfather - you're wrong, sweets. Obama was also named after Muhammad's grandson. Prez of the United States?? C'monnnnnnnnn.

ROTFLMAOL! I see you still insist on stretching facts, simply in order to try fostering a false fear about a canidate...

Sorry darling...But in the US, if you're under 18, you're a child...Childhood may have different catagories...But a child no matter how you slice it, in a legal sense. Toddler, pre-schooler, adolecent, pre-teen, teen, adult...from Toddler to adult, all in between is childhood.

Or are we now going to play semantics cause you want to continue on with innuendos and falsehoods? You know there's a name for that...Dirty politics...When the opposition is so afraid of their opponent they have to lie about them?

Also, why mention 'father' there? I guess it goes completely over your head about his father abandoning him when he was a toddler?

Also, you seem horrible at doing math...Age 4 to 6 years old doesn't come to 8 years...It comes to 6 (SIX) years...Again, you have a need to inflate the facts to fit your agenda of dirty politicing and falsehoods.

So what of Obama's name? Hate to tell you this, but children are not responsible nor form their lives to conform to the names their parents give them...Millions of children world-wide have embarrassing names given to them from their parents...But the name doesn't make the person...The person makes the name.

And so far, you have insinuated and stretched the truth about facts concerning the person...Which doesn't fit them period, cause they are not the name or identity you are trying to attach to them through your falsehoods and insinuations.

Let's say hypothetically, he spent his whole chidlhood being Muslim, and his teenage years, and maybe even a young adult. It doens't mean its impossible for him to convert does it?

Stop being so pathetic, all of you. What you are born into does not neccessarily constitute who you are.

I happen to agree with you there Sublime. All I'm pointing out is the fact that although Obama's father was Islamic, or that he lived in a Islamic nation, or that even his name is Islamic...That Obama has always made it perfectly clear that at no time did he consider himself anything but a Christian.

And I find it perfectly distasteful that despite his consistant telling of being a Christian, that some people rather feed gossip based of of nothing more then situations/circumstances he had no control over...He had no control over who his mother married...He had no control over the name his parents choose for him...And he certainly had no choice in where his family moved him as a child...

But despite all of that, he follows a Christian belief as a child and adult. Especially in light that he, himself, discribes his religious upbringing at the hands of his mother and step-father as being more atheist/agnostic then anything else. That neither were particularly religious in any sense, quite the opposite. That he didn't really find himself, TILL he walked into a United Church of Christ in his twenties...That up til then, he really didn't have a religious identity himself, although the Christian seed was in him and just unvocalized up till then.

Personally, that's what I find pathetic in all of this...That people feel so threatened by this canidate, that instead of looking for something truthful to use against him, they rather play the gossiping and innuendo game.

We talk about how we would like to see an honest politician...But I'd go a step futher and say I'd love to see an honest voter as well...

Seems both types go hand-in-hand these days. No wonder our country is so messed up...

 

[numinus]

People in this thread should remember that in the exercise of suffrage, one is SUPPOSED TO DISCRIMINATE.

 

[Libsmasher]

.

ROTFLMAOL! I see you still insist on stretching facts, simply in order to try fostering a false fear about a canidate...

Sorry darling...But in the US, if you're under 18, you're a child...Childhood may have different catagories...But a child no matter how you slice it, in a legal sense. Toddler, pre-schooler, adolecent, pre-teen, teen, adult...from Toddler to adult, all in between is childhood.

And the next year, when you're 18, you can be sent to Iraq and fight in the war? Kind of an abrupt change from "childhood".

Also, why mention 'father' there? I guess it goes completely over your head about his father abandoning him when he was a toddler?

Also, you seem horrible at doing math...Age 4 to 6 years old doesn't come to 8 years...It comes to 6 (SIX) years...Again, you have a need to inflate the facts to fit your agenda of dirty politicing and falsehoods.

His islamic father had him from birth to age 2. His islamic stepfather had him age 4 to 10. Wanna try the math again, einstein?

So what of Obama's name? Hate to tell you this, but children are not responsible nor form their lives to conform to the names their parents give them...Millions of children world-wide have embarrassing names given to them from their parents...But the name doesn't make the person...The person makes the name.

Garsh, who woulda thunk it! The POINT was to indicate the influence of the people who raised him, and were islamic. Blink twice if you get it yet.

 

[9sublime]

Well tell me where the influence is evident in his politics? It seems to the Islamic religion has only influenced his name.

 

[AlicornsPrayer]

And the next year, when you're 18, you can be sent to Iraq and fight in the war? Kind of an abrupt change from "childhood".

I agree...It is an abrubt change in status...And I find it also interesting, considering said adult can go to war and possibly die, or even enter into a marriage at age 18...But same said adult isn't considered adult enough to buy a drink in a bar or a 6-pack at the store til they're 21...

But irregardlessly, they're not considered an adult until age 18...Despite the fact that they're allowed to do certain things and denied other things based on that adult status...

His islamic father had him from birth to age 2. His islamic stepfather had him age 4 to 10. Wanna try the math again, einstein?

For one thing, there's no way to know IF Obama's father himself was Islamic...All we know is the fact that his father came from a predominantly Islamic country. Even then, that still doesn't hold any 'influence' as to what Obama himself was. Especially considering he wasn't born in Kenya, but in Hawaii...A non-Islamic state within a non-Islamic country...

The MOST you can say is that Obama was born in a mixed-religious family (Non-practicing Christian Mother and possibly Islamic Father) with both possible influences in his childhood. BUT, you'd rather be deceptive in that fact, ignore his Christian roots, for no other reason then to create false fear and innuendo.

And again...about the step-father...His step-father was born Muslim but himself was ATHIEST...Or if you'd perfer, AGNOSTIC in his practices. In otherwords, he was in no way a practicing Muslim and even Obama's own writtings about his stepfather point that out in how his step-father held other beliefs very contrary to his Muslim upbringing...

Again, you are being deceptive and misleading while ignoring the facts only to foster more fear and false innuendos against Obama himself.

By the way...Now you're being wishy-washy. Your original comment was that Obama lived in Indonesia and had his STEP-FATHER'S Muslim influence the majority of his life...

The author above is ignoring Obama's mother's second marriage, to a muslim named Lolo Soetoro, with whom Obama lived for several years while growing up, before his mother got divorced. Obama spent most of his childhood growing up in Indonesia, the world's largest islamic country.

Then, when I point out to you that Obama didn't spend the majority of his life in Indonesia, but Hawaii and state-side...You switch your claims to then try to include his father, while still trying to maintain that 'Obama was mainly influenced by Islam all his life'?

Garsh, who woulda thunk it! The POINT was to indicate the influence of the people who raised him, and were islamic. Blink twice if you get it yet.

What about the influence of his mother? You want to make an issue about what countries the father and step-father were from, but you totally discount where his mother was from and what her own religious influences would have been on that child?

Not to mention, you want to make some big deal out of his father's absentee influence, based on nothing more then where his father was from without any knowledge of the father's religious upbringing (innuendo only) as well as ignore the step-father's actual religious preferences of being athiest...Again, only focusing on where they were from, lived, in order to foster fear and innuendo on Obama?

And to further show just how deceptive you are about presenting facts about Obama, you are trying to insist that his name makes him Muslim, despite the fact that the name doesn't make the person or say what that individual's beliefs are? Like Obama had say or control in what name his parents gave him. ROTFLMAOL!!!

But like I said...I don't expect much more from your type then you've shown in your posts...You're into dirty politics and you really can't help yourself in playing the innuendo game in order to get people to choose your side of issues through misinformation and fear...And if there isn't any dirt about them, you're more then happy to make it up as you go along, cause nothing's worse in your mind then an informed voter...You want them as scared and paranoid as you are, in hopes they'll vote as paranoid and scared as you vote. LOL!

Just like the politicians you more then likely support. Why ever would you want to address pros-cons about a canidate's actual policies when you can engage in smear campains and gossip about them instead. LOL!

I'll be so happy when we get more canidates that not only can seperate their religions from our goverment, but that can inspire the voters to do the same...And that's half the problem with your side's mentality...You can't seperate your religious beliefs and fears, from the canidates themselves. You even got to smear your Christian canidates for no other purpose then to say they're not 'Christian enough' or 'Christian long enough'...

I'm looking forward to the day we start voting Athiests into the executive offices...So we can finally enjoy a 'goverment seperate from religion' democracy that our founding fathers dreamed of.

 

[heyjude]

On one hand, the conservatives rant that Obama is a Muslim, and on the other, they rant about the Christian church he attends. It is African centric and almost exclusively black. I guess some people want it both ways.

It's a little like bein Clinton. She cold and unfeminine, she's a weak woman. There is no winning with some people.

 

[Libsmasher]

.

On one hand, the conservatives rant that Obama is a Muslim, and on the other, they rant about the Christian church he attends.
.

They do? Garsh, I don't remember making either rant, and I'm conservative.

 

[Libsmasher]

.

I agree...It is an abrubt change in status...And I find it also interesting, considering said adult can go to war and possibly die, or even enter into a marriage at age 18...But same said adult isn't considered adult enough to buy a drink in a bar or a 6-pack at the store til they're 21...

That's illogical - being a private in the army during war requires ability to learn combat, take orders, strength, and fast reflexes. Drinking and marriage require maturity frequently not found in 18 year olds.

For one thing, there's no way to know IF Obama's father himself was Islamic...All we know is the fact that his father came from a predominantly Islamic country. Even then, that still doesn't hold any 'influence' as to what Obama himself was. Especially considering he wasn't born in Kenya, but in Hawaii...A non-Islamic state within a non-Islamic country...

Wrong - Obama says that his father was raised islamic. His stefather was islamic. Indonesia is an islamic country.

The MOST you can say is that Obama was born in a mixed-religious family (Non-practicing Christian Mother and possibly Islamic Father) with both possible influences in his childhood. BUT, you'd rather be deceptive in that fact, ignore his Christian roots, for no other reason then to create false fear and innuendo.

His mother was non-religious - he has no "christian roots".

And again...about the step-father...His step-father was born Muslim but himself was ATHIEST...Or if you'd perfer, AGNOSTIC in his practices.

That is false - his stepfather was neither an atheist or an agnostic. What are you going to say next - "Indonesia isn't really an islamic country"?

Again, you are being deceptive and misleading while ignoring the facts only to foster more fear and false innuendos against Obama himself.

No, I'm telling it like it is - you simply can't deal with the facts.

By the way...Now you're being wishy-washy. Your original comment was that Obama lived in Indonesia and had his STEP-FATHER'S Muslim influence the majority of his life...

You're hallucinating - I said no such thing.

Then, when I point out to you that Obama didn't spend the majority of his life in Indonesia, but Hawaii and state-side...You switch your claims to then try to include his father, while still trying to maintain that 'Obama was mainly influenced by Islam all his life'?

I said that he was surrounded by islamic influences growing up. The influences you have when you're growing up can last a lifetime. You are trying to evade this by a nonsensical simplistic arithmetic.

And to further show just how deceptive you are about presenting facts about Obama, you are trying to insist that his name makes him Muslim, despite the fact that the name doesn't make the person or say what that individual's beliefs are? Like Obama had say or control in what name his parents gave him. ROTFLMAOL!!!

That point apparently flew over your head at Mach 3. The point was that that such a name would be given by the father revealed the influences he would have been subject to. Get it yet?

But like I said...I don't expect much more from your type then you've shown in your posts...You're into dirty politics and you really can't help yourself in playing the innuendo game in order to get people to choose your side of issues through misinformation and fear...And if there isn't any dirt about them, you're more then happy to make it up as you go along, cause nothing's worse in your mind then an informed voter...You want them as scared and paranoid as you are, in hopes they'll vote as paranoid and scared as you vote.

"blah blah blah" (yawwwwnnnn)

Just like the politicians you more then likely support. Why ever would you want to address pros-cons about a canidate's actual policies when you can engage in smear campains and gossip about them instead.

Obama doesn't have policies - just glittering generalities and claimed goals without explaining how they are to be achieved. He keeps everything vague so that everyone who is disatisfied will think he is their man.

I'll be so happy when we get more canidates that not only can seperate their religions from our goverment,

What the devil does THAT mean? Anyone's guess.

but that can inspire the voters to do the same...And that's half the problem with your side's mentality...You can't seperate your religious beliefs and fears, from the canidates themselves. You even got to smear your Christian canidates for no other purpose then to say they're not 'Christian enough' or 'Christian long enough'...

Uh... I don't have any religious beliefs. Now don't you feel foolish? You certainly look foolish!

 

[AlicornsPrayer]

By the way...Now you're being wishy-washy. Your original comment was that Obama lived in Indonesia and had his STEP-FATHER'S Muslim influence the majority of his life...

You're hallucinating - I said no such thing.

LOL! Yes you did. In fact, in my post that you're responding to here, I included the exact post you said so...And HIGHLIGHTED the portion of your claim about the majority of his time being spent in Indonesia...Which you conviently overlooked in fact...To deny you said it?

Let me refresh your memory...Again...

The author above is ignoring Obama's mother's second marriage, to a muslim named Lolo Soetoro, with whom Obama lived for several years while growing up, before his mother got divorced. Obama spent most of his childhood growing up in Indonesia, the world's largest islamic country.

Remember now? I mean, you can click the little arrow next to your name in that quote, and it'll take you directly to YOUR post, where you did indeed claim that Obama had spent most of his life in Indonesia, hence his 'Islamic upbringing' you originally started out claiming...

By the way...I've stated several times, that Indonesia is an Islamic country...As well as stating similar expressions in regards to Kenya, where Obama's father came from...Would you like me to repost that for you? Since obviously you don't read what's said, or dismiss what was said in order to falsely back up your position?

So why now are you trying to pretend I think otherwise?

Oh...And from Obama's book, about his father's and step-father's supposed 'Islamic influences' on him...Which by the way...I was confusing his father with his step-father...My bad...

his Kenyan father was raised a Muslim, but a confirmed atheist by the time his parents met, and his Indonesian stepfather as a man who saw religion as not particularly useful.

As to his mother?

Mother was detached from religion, yet in many ways the most spiritually awakened person that I have ever known.

Either way you want to sum that up, that doesn't conclude that Obama's parents used their beliefs/non-beliefs to influence his beliefs...You may want it to appear that way...If anything, they left it up to him to choose for himself what fit him best. IF they were supposedly such an influence, you'd think he'd be Agnostic or Atheist himself...But he's Christian.

If anyone or anything was responsible for his beliefs, then it would appear that America and it's predominantly Christian culture (where he was born and has spent the majority of his childhood and adult life) was more responsible for his beliefs then any 'Islamic person or country'...Since it's as a Christian he identifies himself, not Islamic period. And American culture itself is predominantly Christian.

And back to the name thingy eh? Then how do you explain Atheists that give their children names that have a religious useage? Parents that name their children after relatives in rememberance, that have a Christian religious meaning, yet the parents themselves aren't particularly religious?

You're putting way more meaning into Obama's name then is truthful...His parents gave him a name to remember a relative. You'd like it to mean more, in order to back up your anti-Islamic views...But that's simply making a mountain out of a molehill in order to cause fear and disinformation.

And obviously, even IF your implied meaning is that Obama's name was intended to influence his beliefs? Well, then again that fails, since he's obviously Christian and doesn't hold to the Islamic ideals you'd like to make others think he holds to...

Obviously, you are religious in some sense...As it's you trying to use religious reference/inference as to Obama's intentions and goals...

Only a religous person would go to that particular point of trying to get others to focus on another's suspect religious views, in order to try and paint that person as 'suspect and possibly harmful' because of suspect religious views...

So no, I don't feel a bit foolish in lumping you into the same group as any other religious zealot who uses religion as a basis to judge another's worth/value...

And our country would be better off, if people like yourself stopped trying to use religion and faith as a means to vote/not vote people into office or to give/remove rights from US citizens. You vote people into office based on what you think they're religous beliefs may/maynot be in order to ensure the politician votes for policies that support those religious ideologies...

Otherwise, you wouldn't need to play that 'Obama is Muslim' card in the first place. Only a religious person hoping to cause fear and disinformation, would play that card.