The holy trinity

[Dawkinsrocks]

I am really puzzled by the holy trinity.

My understanding is that it consists of God the father, God the son and God the holy ghost.

That must mean that Jesus has always been around and that he didn't die at all. Which must mean he wasn't conceived of the virgin Mary and all that stuff.

And this view is supported by the 'God the father' bit. I mean he could not be a father without having a child.

Also, what is the holy ghost? Was there something called 'holy' and did it die unhappily only to wander through eternity as a ghost?

It is so confusing.

But obviously true

 

[SW85]

See the appropriate wikipedia entry.

In the future, you might not want to publicly confess ignorance about the central tenets of the religion you spend so much time condemning as stupid.

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

oh, you don't understand it either

 

[SW85]

Oh, well, if you say so.

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

Forgive me for not understanding but it is hardly obvious.

God is allegedly a trinity of father son and holy ghost.

But I thought Jesus was born 2009 years ago.

Was it the holy duality before that or was Jesus there all along?

And if he was it is not really fair to say he was born 2009 years ago.

But if he was there when and why did he come along and who was his mother?

It is so confusing.

Can anyone explain this?

 

[Mr.Dysfunctional]

Forgive me for not understanding but it is hardly obvious.

God is allegedly a trinity of father son and holy ghost.

But I thought Jesus was born 2009 years ago.

Was it the holy duality before that or was Jesus there all along?

And if he was it is not really fair to say he was born 2009 years ago.

But if he was there when and why did he come along and who was his mother?

It is so confusing.

Can anyone explain this?

My god Dawkins ... why don't you just read the bible ... you know they make english versions now...

Are you afraid you will burst into flames just for picking it up?!?!?!
Do us all a favor and study the material for yourself... reading it for one would be a start ... then how about reviewing the changes in church up to 1400th century .. like really .. as much as you bash christians up and down this web-site .. you actually are now asking to be informed about soemthing you should know by heart? **sigh**

Go to a college course for the History of Christianity , attend a sunday church meeting .. TALK TO A PREACHER FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! If you would drop you insensitive exostric approach to people ... you might get a bit farther ahead. and maybe even learn something.......

I personally think you will burst into flames thou just stepping into a church .. but thats IMPO

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

I have read the bible twice and it is a very confusing book.

Especially in this area.

Why don't you answer my questions?

Oh and BTW you don't have to step into a church to burst into flames. The church has a long history of taking the flames to the people.

 

[The Scotsman]

I have read the bible twice and it is a very confusing book.

.......then give up the intellectual pursuits, bugger off down the pub and have a beer; contemplate your navel or a beer mat or the fat babe swilling the Barcardi Breezers....

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

Oh sorry, I thought this was a debating site

 

[samsara15]

Please cite any place in the Bible that lists or describes any 'Trinity'. I am not aware of any. As far as I can tell, the 'Trinity' doctrine was the result of an interpretation of the late Roman era Christians. The secondary result of a long running battle between verious Christian factions in the 3rd and 4th century about the nature of God - Monophysites, Arians, and so forth.

 

[foggedinn]

Please cite any place in the Bible that lists or describes any 'Trinity'. I am not aware of any. As far as I can tell, the 'Trinity' doctrine was the result of an interpretation of the late Roman era Christians.

You are correct that the term "Trinity" is not found in scripture. Nor is the term "Rapture".

However, people are to be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. And Jesus described some events that people refer to as "The Rapture".

Keep asking questions Dawk. And read the Bible two more times.

 

[numinus]

Please cite any place in the Bible that lists or describes any 'Trinity'. I am not aware of any. As far as I can tell, the 'Trinity' doctrine was the result of an interpretation of the late Roman era Christians. The secondary result of a long running battle between verious Christian factions in the 3rd and 4th century about the nature of God - Monophysites, Arians, and so forth.

Certainly not the word 'trinity' but the concept is there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_trinity#Scriptural_texts_cited_as_implying_support

 

[zakiyeh]

4:171:
This is a point where muslims and christians disagree in belief. Muslims do believe in Jesus, but they don't believe in the trinity. There are many verses in Quran about Jesus and his mother, Mary.
This is one of them!:
"O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His transcendent majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender."(171)

Note:The version "People of the Scripture" in Quran refers to people believing in the Bible, or the Torah,; ie the christians and/or the Jews.

 

[numinus]

4:171:
This is a point where muslims and christians disagree in belief. Muslims do believe in Jesus, but they don't believe in the trinity. There are many verses in Quran about Jesus and his mother, Mary.
This is one of them!:
"O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His transcendent majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender."(171)

Note:The version "People of the Scripture" in Quran refers to people believing in the Bible, or the Torah,; ie the christians and/or the Jews.

This verse notwithstanding, the three major monotheistic religions (christianity, judaism and islam) have infinitely MORE in common than any religion -- certainly MORE in agreement than disagreement.

And precisely because there is a wide area of doctrinal overlap, these religions should be allies rather than going at each other's throats -- or at the very least, it would be easier to accomodate inter-faith dialogue.

The world would be an immensely better place if reasonable muslims weren't so infatuated with goat-herder logic as espoused by nasrallah and his ilk. Same thing for christians and jews.

 

[zakiyeh]

to numinus

I quite agree. the topic was the Holy Trinity, so I just posted some thing I knew about it. I thought it would be interesting for some to know there is direct reference to it in Quran. Nevertheless there are many other verses that are common with what is written in bible, and we believe that the whole religion is the same, except that a more complete version of it has been revealed to prophet Muhammad. You might as well have a look at my last post in The monstrous Christian / Islamic God:

https://www.houseofpolitics.com/forum/showpost.php?p=87496&postcount=68