The Forgotten Founders

[Gipper]

That is what they are being taught in the public schools, and what their parents were taught, etc., since the 60's. Can you expect anything else?

You are correct, but I do expect that Americans use some logic and conclude that no one should have the right to take my property and give it to someone else.

The Founders knew this, but it has been lost by many Americans.

 

[Gipper]

"The ultimate authority ... resides in the people alone. ... The advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation ... forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition." --James Madison​

 

[pocketfullofshells]

I just think its funny, Gipper would rail against Hamilton's views if he where alive today on alot of issues...

Founding Fathers are good for quotes when they back you, and easy to ignore when they don't. and if one did not say what you want or you did not agree with them...one of the others I am sure will have said something to fit your idea...then you can pretend your just like them...

Need a strong Fed? What would Adams say?
want a weak fed? what would Jefferson say?
want to be involved in a war in Europe? what would Jefferson say?
you want to be neutral? what would Washington or Adams say?
Think Slavery was wrong? what did Jefferson say?
Think getting rid of slavery would be bad? see Jefferson again...

 

[pocketfullofshells]

That is what they are being taught in the public schools, and what their parents were taught, etc., since the 60's. Can you expect anything else?

they should do it in the name of Security!

 

[Gipper]

I just think its funny, Gipper would rail against Hamilton's views if he where alive today on alot of issues...

Founding Fathers are good for quotes when they back you, and easy to ignore when they don't. and if one did not say what you want or you did not agree with them...one of the others I am sure will have said something to fit your idea...then you can pretend your just like them...

Need a strong Fed? What would Adams say?
want a weak fed? what would Jefferson say?
want to be involved in a war in Europe? what would Jefferson say?
you want to be neutral? what would Washington or Adams say?
Think Slavery was wrong? what did Jefferson say?
Think getting rid of slavery would be bad? see Jefferson again...

If you think ANY of the Founders would approve of our current government, you are sadly mistaken.

If any of the Founders could be magically brought to life, they would lead a new revolution to end the horrendous, onerous, enormous, and intolerant fed government.

By any objective analysis, our current situation is far worse than what the Founders endured under the King of England.

They were all about liberty for the individual and limited government rather than your preference for totalitarianism.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

If you think ANY of the Founders would approve of our current government, you are sadly mistaken.

If any of the Founders could be magically brought to life, they would lead a new revolution to end the horrendous, onerous, enormous, and intolerant fed government.

By any objective analysis, our current situation is far worse than what the Founders endured under the King of England.

They were all about liberty for the individual and limited government rather than your preference for totalitarianism.

yea its so horrible our government doing...what we vote for....and with all those Elected officials....

your idea of Democracy is....everyone should agree with you.

 

[Gipper]

yea its so horrible our government doing...what we vote for....and with all those Elected officials....

your idea of Democracy is....everyone should agree with you.

Wrong again buddy.

My idea of a constitutional republic is that we follow the Constitution as was intended by the Founders.

No more ignoring it and no more progressive BS.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Wrong again buddy.

My idea of a constitutional republic is that we follow the Constitution as was intended by the Founders.

No more ignoring it and no more progressive BS.

The founding fathers ignored it...the Constitution only applied to white male land owners of course.

 

[Gipper]

The founding fathers ignored it...the Constitution only applied to white male land owners of course.

Wrong again.

How do you live with yourself knowing you are ALWAYS wrong?

 

[PLC1]

Wrong again.

How do you live with yourself knowing you are ALWAYS wrong?

Part of the Constitution may have applied to women, maybe even to non property owners, but the right to vote only applied to white men of property in the beginning. Women weren't given the right to vote until the 1920s. Women were not allowed to even own property until around the same time. Only in California could women own property without the permission of their husbands.

Quite a lot of the Constitution deals with voting and ownership of property, does it not?

Then, of course, there was he little matter of black slaves, as well as white indentured servants. Not much in the way of Constitutional rights for them, was there?

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Part of the Constitution may have applied to women, maybe even to non property owners, but the right to vote only applied to white men of property in the beginning. Women weren't given the right to vote until the 1920s. Women were not allowed to even own property until around the same time. Only in California could women own property without the permission of their husbands.

Quite a lot of the Constitution deals with voting and ownership of property, does it not?

Then, of course, there was he little matter of black slaves, as well as white indentured servants. Not much in the way of Constitutional rights for them, was there?

maybe thats the real plan behind gippers ideas...to stop blacks from being free and woman from having rights...also all non land owners.

The right forgets this nation was also founded...on the poor buring down the rich oppressors homes , and sometimes killing them...

 

[GenSeneca]

Quite a lot of the Constitution deals with voting and ownership of property, does it not?

Because the idea was to have people who paid taxes voting on how to spend that money. We have universal suffrage but we do not have universal taxation... I am of the opinion that only those who pay taxes should be allowed to vote. As it stands now, 50% of the population pays nothing in taxes but they have an equal say in how the money collected from the other 50% is spent.

I would prefer that everyone be taxed through a flat tax and keep universal suffrage. At least that way politicians cannot raise taxes on half the population in order to grant subsidies and gifts to the other 50% in return for their votes.

Then, of course, there was he little matter of black slaves, as well as white indentured servants. Not much in the way of Constitutional rights for them, was there?

Had the constitution granted rights to slaves and indentured servants, the states would not have ratified the constitution now would they?

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Because the idea was to have people who paid taxes voting on how to spend that money. We have universal suffrage but we do not have universal taxation... I am of the opinion that only those who pay taxes should be allowed to vote. As it stands now, 50% of the population pays nothing in taxes but they have an equal say in how the money collected from the other 50% is spent.

I would prefer that everyone be taxed through a flat tax and keep universal suffrage. At least that way politicians cannot raise taxes on half the population in order to grant subsidies and gifts to the other 50% in return for their votes.


Had the constitution granted rights to slaves and indentured servants, the states would not have ratified the constitution now would they?

so in other words, the poor can't vote ...

also since evryone I know pays sales tax...guess that means we all can vote...or you not counting that?

 

[Pandora]

Good post. Thankfully things like stepping in and stopping the raping of the masses by THE robber barron healthcare giants is in there!

U.S. Constitution - Preamble
The Preamble

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

If "promote the general Welfare" was meant to be anything to do with health care why was it never dealt with at any point in the first 100 years? People were poor and sick back then more so than today and health care was hard to come by then more so than today yet they made no national health care.

 

[GenSeneca]

so in other words, the poor can't vote ...

Have them pay taxes by instituting a flat tax, so that 100% of income earners pay taxes, which is exactly what I said.

also since evryone I know pays sales tax...guess that means we all can vote...or you not counting that?

I was specifically referring to the federal income tax, which is why I stated that 50% pay and 50% do not.