The Bible; The Unabridged-Version

Maybe our "moralists" need to spend a little-more-time with this, before they continue to tell others how to live their lives.....and, who to vote-for.

Maybe "amoral" folks ought to think for themselves, instead of waiting for the government to tell them how to wipe their butts.

Hey Shaman, Michael Vick the dog murderer said he found "God" in prison, and that it was a "cultural" thing that he got started on dog fighting at the age of EIGHT? Can you tell me what moral culture he's talking about?
 
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Maybe "amoral" folks ought to think for themselves, instead of waiting for the government to tell them how to wipe their butts.

Hey Shaman, Michael Vick the dog murderer said he found "God" in prison, and that it was a "cultural" thing that he got started on dog fighting at the age of EIGHT? Can you tell me what moral culture he's talking about?

Amoral isn't the word you're looking for; immoral suits your purposes. Amoral refers not to negative morality. but rather to not being moral or immoral. Amoral does not have a negative connotation, which I'm sure you're intending, as does immoral.

As for dog fighting, I don't like it; this of course being a cultural thing, since technically all animals are pretty much the same, yet I seem to have a paradoxical lack of care concerning the cows, pigs, and fish I eat. Is it immoral to shoot a deer for sport? Is it immoral to crush ants? Why should, without culture bias, dogs be any different? I mean they're cute, cuddly, and lovely pets (I have one myself), I cannot however find a reason that one should consider it wrong to use them in violent sports when we don't seem to care much for bulls, deer, rabbits, cows, pigs, wolves, or otherwise.

Speaking of wolves, let me point this out. The wolf, species Canis lupus, is hunted for sport. This violent sport is supported whole heartedly by Sarah Palin. Now I'd like you to meet the dog, species Canis lupus familiaris which we protect with a multitude of laws. Mind you the familiaris is but a subspecies and does not separate it from the species of the wolf. So seriously, with your touting of the amorality[sic] of Michael Vick, perhaps you should realize he is performing the same act (being the perpetrator in the violent death of C. lupus) as Sarah Palin.

I'm just saying.
 
Amoral isn't the word you're looking for; immoral suits your purposes. Amoral refers not to negative morality. but rather to not being moral or immoral. Amoral does not have a negative connotation, which I'm sure you're intending, as does immoral.

As for dog fighting, I don't like it; this of course being a cultural thing, since technically all animals are pretty much the same, yet I seem to have a paradoxical lack of care concerning the cows, pigs, and fish I eat. Is it immoral to shoot a deer for sport? Is it immoral to crush ants? Why should, without culture bias, dogs be any different? I mean they're cute, cuddly, and lovely pets (I have one myself), I cannot however find a reason that one should consider it wrong to use them in violent sports when we don't seem to care much for bulls, deer, rabbits, cows, pigs, wolves, or otherwise.

Speaking of wolves, let me point this out. The wolf, species Canis lupus, is hunted for sport. This violent sport is supported whole heartedly by Sarah Palin. Now I'd like you to meet the dog, species Canis lupus familiaris which we protect with a multitude of laws. Mind you the familiaris is but a subspecies and does not separate it from the species of the wolf. So seriously, with your touting of the amorality[sic] of Michael Vick, perhaps you should realize he is performing the same act (being the perpetrator in the violent death of C. lupus) as Sarah Palin.

I'm just saying.

You're correct and Sarah Palin should go to jail too, you have my vote to indict that moose-murderin' Christian phony.
 
Could you show us the math please?

Sure.

Without any green house effect whatsoever, the Earth would be roughly ~33ºC cooler.
The actual scientific papers on this require a subscription, so this is the EPAs web site which cites that information. Keep that number in mind for later.

Of the total green house effect, 95% of it is water.
Very widely known in the scientific community, but not often mentioned elsewhere.

The remaining 5% of the greenhouse effect is actually divided up by many trace gasses throughout our atmosphere. This includes Ozone, Methane, nitrous oxide, other trace gases, and of course Carbon Dioxide. For the sake of simplification, we will assume the entire 5% is due to CO2 exclusively.

Of the total CO2 created annually, humans only account for a tiny fraction of the created CO2. Unfortunately, like most Earth sciences, there is varying number depending on what methodology you use.
image270b.gif

3.2% or

3.4%

and I've seen 4%, which I assume is the same numbers rounded up. Again, to make things simple, let's round up to 4% and roll with that.

So humans are responsible for 4% of CO2 which is responsible for only 5% of the green house effect. 4% of 5% is 0.2% We are responsible for 0.2% of the greenhouse effect.

Now, what does that translate into temperature wise? Remember we said that naturally the green house effect rises the temperature by 33ºC. 0.2% of 33ºC is 0.066ºC

Therefore, 0.066ºC is the total effect of the cumulative CO2 of the entire human race to this point.

In order for human CO2 to cause an increase in temperature of just 1ºC, we would have to collectively increase our total CO2 emissions by 16 fold, which would be difficult even if we made it a goal. Yet even then it wouldn't be enough.

The reason for that is, the greenhouse effect does not increase linearly with CO2 concentrations. It is "logarithmic", or in simple speak, follows the rule of diminishing returns. This is because simply having more CO2 in the atmosphere, does not mean that there is more long-wave light energy to absorb.

Another way in which eco-screamers twist numbers is by looking at CO2 concentration in the atmosphere, and claiming we are responsible for all increases. This however relies heavily on the assumption that the natural carbon cycle is in constant balance, and that any change must be due to human activities.

This tends to ignore the fact that CO2 levels in history have both been much lower, and much higher, without any human effects.

Yet even in these calculations the results are similar. If we assume that all increases in CO2 our directly due to human activity, we account for only 25% of CO2, which again is only 5% of the greenhouse effect. 25% * 5% = 1.25%

1.25% of the 33ºC equals roughly 0.4ºC. Which again means that using broad assumptions, you still get a temperature increase far too small for human skin to even notice, let alone apocalyptic dire predictions of future destruction.

Far more likely, changes in Earth temperature are due to change in the suns energy output.
 
Thou shalt not kill.

Is this something you find ambiguous, or Christians find ambiguous? I have yet to meet a Christian, who had a hard time understanding this verse.

For those that do, here is the explanation.

Languages have changed over time. In Hebrew, in which this verse came from, the word used is ratsach, which refers to intentional killing without cause. The Hebrew word for "kill" in this instance is not ratsach, but nakah, which can refer to either premeditated or unintentional killing.

It is likely that in old English, the word "kill" referred to premeditated killing as well, but over the decades has changed to have a broader meaning.

However, any orthodox pastor with training in Hebrew should be able to give a clear answer on that. And as I said, I have yet to meet a Christian who was confused by that. Beside most modern translations, have up to date English.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy 5:17;&version=47;
"You shall not murder."

If this is all you find ambiguous, you are doing pretty good.
 
Is this something you find ambiguous, or Christians find ambiguous? I have yet to meet a Christian, who had a hard time understanding this verse.

For those that do, here is the explanation.

Languages have changed over time. In Hebrew, in which this verse came from, the word used is ratsach, which refers to intentional killing without cause. The Hebrew word for "kill" in this instance is not ratsach, but nakah, which can refer to either premeditated or unintentional killing.

It is likely that in old English, the word "kill" referred to premeditated killing as well, but over the decades has changed to have a broader meaning.

However, any orthodox pastor with training in Hebrew should be able to give a clear answer on that. And as I said, I have yet to meet a Christian who was confused by that. Beside most modern translations, have up to date English.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy 5:17;&version=47;
"You shall not murder."

If this is all you find ambiguous, you are doing pretty good.

So the "kill" only meant people? And when they went to war it didn't mean anything? Capital punishment isn't covered? But Jesus said to return good for evil, turn the other cheek, to forgive those who use you spitefully. I don't recall Him ever saying that killing or murdering was okay.

I like the fact that the Bible is being changed now while I'm here to see it, so many people have told me that it is God's Word unchanged all down through history that it's nice to see that they are again proven wrong. Thanks.
 
So the "kill" only meant people? And when they went to war it didn't mean anything? Capital punishment isn't covered? But Jesus said to return good for evil, turn the other cheek, to forgive those who use you spitefully. I don't recall Him ever saying that killing or murdering was okay.

Matthew 11:20 a whole city is condemed by Jesus.
Mark 15:12 Jesus sends a whole herd of pigs over a cliff.
Matthew 14:4 Jesus upholds the death penalty for those who fail to honor their mothers.
Throughout his whole ministry Peter carries a sword unchallenged. (probably for defense against robbers)
And the whole reason that Jesus died on the cross was so He could to bear the capital punishment that all of us deserve. It would be silly for him to die on the cross if He did not think that we all deserve death.
I too don't know of any passage that condones murder.

I like the fact that the Bible is being changed now while I'm here to see it, so many people have told me that it is God's Word unchanged all down through history that it's nice to see that they are again proven wrong. Thanks.

Andy's whole post was about how the original meaning of the word has remained the same and the best interpretations follow the best meaning of the word and you conclude that the bible is being changed while you see it. Man you are ripe.
 
Matthew 11:20 a whole city is condemed by Jesus.
Mark 15:12 Jesus sends a whole herd of pigs over a cliff.
Matthew 14:4 Jesus upholds the death penalty for those who fail to honor their mothers.
Throughout his whole ministry Peter carries a sword unchallenged. (probably for defense against robbers)
And the whole reason that Jesus died on the cross was so He could to bear the capital punishment that all of us deserve. It would be silly for him to die on the cross if He did not think that we all deserve death.
I too don't know of any passage that condones murder.
Just as I doubt that God did all that cruel and stupid stuff in the Old Testament, so too do I doubt that Jesus did the things you posted. People have to resort to those kinds of tactics because they are amazingly incompetent, I don't think God suffers from that malady.

Andy's whole post was about how the original meaning of the word has remained the same and the best interpretations follow the best meaning of the word and you conclude that the bible is being changed while you see it. Man you are ripe.

Yes, it was, and that's the point. For 2000 years the translation was right, now it's wrong and has to be changed. This is the story of the Bible, people changing it as it suited them or their current ideas. The book is a rubber yardstick.
 
So the "kill" only meant people? And when they went to war it didn't mean anything? Capital punishment isn't covered? But Jesus said to return good for evil, turn the other cheek, to forgive those who use you spitefully. I don't recall Him ever saying that killing or murdering was okay.

I like the fact that the Bible is being changed now while I'm here to see it, so many people have told me that it is God's Word unchanged all down through history that it's nice to see that they are again proven wrong. Thanks.

No. It was always the same. What changed was the English language.

The Hebrew always said "ratsach". That hasn't changed in thousands of years.
 
Just as I doubt that God did all that cruel and stupid stuff in the Old Testament, so too do I doubt that Jesus did the things you posted. People have to resort to those kinds of tactics because they are amazingly incompetent, I don't think God suffers from that malady.

So if you disagree with everything, or anything, the Bible says, why do you care what it means? See, for believers like myself, this was never ambiguous, nor did we have any trouble with it. Is it possible that your lack of faith is the problem, rather than the text?

Yes, it was, and that's the point. For 2000 years the translation was right, now it's wrong and has to be changed. This is the story of the Bible, people changing it as it suited them or their current ideas. The book is a rubber yardstick.

Again, the English language has changed. When you look at the Hebrew, or other scripts, nothing has changed.
 
Sure.

Without any green house effect whatsoever, the Earth would be roughly ~33ºC cooler.

The actual scientific papers on this require a subscription, so this is the EPAs web site which cites that information. Keep that number in mind for later.

Of the total green house effect, 95% of it is water.

Very widely known in the scientific community, but not often mentioned elsewhere.

The remaining 5% of the greenhouse effect is actually divided up by many trace gasses throughout our atmosphere. This includes Ozone, Methane, nitrous oxide, other trace gases, and of course Carbon Dioxide. For the sake of simplification, we will assume the entire 5% is due to CO2 exclusively.

Of the total CO2 created annually, humans only account for a tiny fraction of the created CO2. Unfortunately, like most Earth sciences, there is varying number depending on what methodology you use.
image270b.gif

3.2% or


3.4%

and I've seen 4%, which I assume is the same numbers rounded up. Again, to make things simple, let's round up to 4% and roll with that.

So humans are responsible for 4% of CO2 which is responsible for only 5% of the green house effect. 4% of 5% is 0.2% We are responsible for 0.2% of the greenhouse effect.

Now, what does that translate into temperature wise? Remember we said that naturally the green house effect rises the temperature by 33ºC. 0.2% of 33ºC is 0.066ºC

Therefore, 0.066ºC is the total effect of the cumulative CO2 of the entire human race to this point.

In order for human CO2 to cause an increase in temperature of just 1ºC, we would have to collectively increase our total CO2 emissions by 16 fold, which would be difficult even if we made it a goal. Yet even then it wouldn't be enough.

The reason for that is, the greenhouse effect does not increase linearly with CO2 concentrations. It is "logarithmic", or in simple speak, follows the rule of diminishing returns. This is because simply having more CO2 in the atmosphere, does not mean that there is more long-wave light energy to absorb.

Another way in which eco-screamers twist numbers is by looking at CO2 concentration in the atmosphere, and claiming we are responsible for all increases. This however relies heavily on the assumption that the natural carbon cycle is in constant balance, and that any change must be due to human activities.

This tends to ignore the fact that CO2 levels in history have both been much lower, and much higher, without any human effects.

Yet even in these calculations the results are similar. If we assume that all increases in CO2 our directly due to human activity, we account for only 25% of CO2, which again is only 5% of the greenhouse effect. 25% * 5% = 1.25%

1.25% of the 33ºC equals roughly 0.4ºC. Which again means that using broad assumptions, you still get a temperature increase far too small for human skin to even notice, let alone apocalyptic dire predictions of future destruction.

Far more likely, changes in Earth temperature are due to change in the suns energy output.

I occurred to me that I failed to actually explain why it was impossible. In theory, eventually we could double triple, quadruple our CO2 output until we did significantly raise the temperature of the Earth, except for two problems.

First, the law of diminishing returns would mean that the amount of CO2 required to continue increasing the temperature would approach infinity as we kept producing more CO2.

Second, and this is the kicker, in order to double the warming effect of pre-industrial CO2 (ignoring water) would require about 90,000 PPMV of CO2. We're at 390 PPM now. Plus, as CO2 levels rise, plant absorption increases. Not to mention that CO2 becomes toxic at 6,000 PPMV.

The bottom line is, this is mathematically impossible.
 
No. It was always the same. What changed was the English language.

The Hebrew always said "ratsach". That hasn't changed in thousands of years.

Maybe the original word hasn't changed, but how many Christians lived and died believing the wrong thing because of false interpretation? How many more of these false interpretations will we find? Maybe we'll discover that it's okay to be gay, David and Jonathon were okay with it, maybe incest will be okay too, Lot seemed to give it all he had. Where will it end? The Bible is a rubber yardstick that keeps changing length as we "interpret" it.
 
So if you disagree with everything, or anything, the Bible says, why do you care what it means? See, for believers like myself, this was never ambiguous, nor did we have any trouble with it. Is it possible that your lack of faith is the problem, rather than the text?
My problem has always been what the "true believers" do with the rubber yardstick. The people in the Inquisition were just as sure of themselves as you are, the people who burned a million women at the stake over a period of more than 500 years were just as much "believers" as you, were they right? That's the problem, the arrogance of the "true believer" has never been tempered with the compassion of Christ.

Faith, in the Bible? Not a shred. But my relationship with my Creator is alright, He can see into my heart and knows who and what I am, and that's good enough for me.

Again, the English language has changed. When you look at the Hebrew, or other scripts, nothing has changed.
And that statement is supposed to reassure me how? How come the Codex Sinaiticus is so much different from our Bibles today? Whole books in there that we don't have. A rubber yardstick indeed.
 
My problem has always been what the "true believers" do with the rubber yardstick. The people in the Inquisition were just as sure of themselves as you are, the people who burned a million women at the stake over a period of more than 500 years were just as much "believers" as you, were they right? That's the problem, the arrogance of the "true believer" has never been tempered with the compassion of Christ.

Faith, in the Bible? Not a shred. But my relationship with my Creator is alright, He can see into my heart and knows who and what I am, and that's good enough for me.

Were they right? That is pretty easy. I read my Bible, and see where it says to do the things they did. Nope it doesn't. That wasn't hard.

So if you are secure in your world view, why bother us about our Bible?

And that statement is supposed to reassure me how? How come the Codex Sinaiticus is so much different from our Bibles today? Whole books in there that we don't have. A rubber yardstick indeed.

There were dozens of other books that were not canonized into the Bible, or considered inspired writings. Inspiration of the Holy spirit of God, as found in the Bible, would not be something a non-bible believer could ever understand since you do not have it.

Since you do not have the leading of the spirit of God, it is understandable that you would suspect us of using some "rubber yard stick" as you say.

Again, you are arguing against something you can not understand, so why bother?
 
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Were they right? That is pretty easy. I read my Bible, and see where it says to do the things they did. Nope it doesn't. That wasn't hard.
So if you are secure in your world view, why bother us about our Bible?There were dozens of other books that were not canonized into the Bible, or considered inspired writings. Inspiration of the Holy spirit of God, as found in the Bible, would not be something a non-bible believer could ever understand since you do not have it.

Since you do not have the leading of the spirit of God, it is understandable that you would suspect us of using some "rubber yard stick" as you say.

Again, you are arguing against something you can not understand, so why bother?
Because you are the driving force in the culture in which I live, my rights are abrogated on a daily basis by your religious beliefs. Your holy book has cost millions of lives due to it's violent admonitions and contradictory rules. If you people just stopped trying to force others to live by your rules you'd have no trouble from me. My marriage my yet be taken from me by your Bible-beater brothers and sisters, that constitutes an assault on me because I don't believe the same way as you do.
 
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