The Audacity of Arrogance

Do you try to be nasty, or does it just come naturally?


I'm not the one with the name of "Cruella!"

And I'm not the one who insist in attacking people who don't think like me.

I enjoy debating. The fact that I am (with Pocket) one of the only liberal on this forum (and only temporarely!), doesn't mean that I do not have the right to express my opinion without being belittled and harrassed.

Been there, done that. . .right Dogtowner? :D
 
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And I'm not the one who insist in attacking people who don't think like me.

I must have missed that post. You've made yourself very clear about what you think of people who don't think like you. Stupid, red necks, yada, yada, yada. At least your in the right thread.
 
Go back and look at the post where I said that. . . and see the PART of the quote that I was referring to. It has NOTHING to do with Iran or Israel!

No, I do not think Israel being nuked by Iran would be a good thing. . .but then I don't believe in it, as Iran knows that it would NOT be the end of the story.
And, look who is making the decisions in Iran. . . . and it is not the guy with the big mouth (which is pretty normal!)

In the other hand, I do not think that Iran being nuked by Israel would be a good thing either. . .and many Jewish people, both here and in Israel think like me.
You are clearly misguided on this one. Iran has already called for the total destruction of Israel, many times over. They are the aggressor! The nuking of Japan was a horrible thing but, not as bad as what would have happened if American GI's would have invaded the main land of Japan. They were the aggressors. Horrible yes .... justified ... YES!

Iran is clearly the AGGRESSOR!
 
You are clearly misguided on this one. Iran has already called for the total destruction of Israel, many times over. They are the aggressor! The nuking of Japan was a horrible thing but, not as bad as what would have happened if American GI's would have invaded the main land of Japan. They were the aggressors. Horrible yes .... justified ... YES!

Iran is clearly the AGGRESSOR!

and while their "clergy" have ok'ed the use of nuclear weapons there is no suggestion that Israel would. much as they did with Iraq, they would disable the nuclear capability in Iran. with or without obama's overt permission. obama did already sell them the bombs to do the job. as always with him its the actions and not the words that matter. smoke and mirrors and not even good at it.
 
and while their "clergy" have ok'ed the use of nuclear weapons there is no suggestion that Israel would. much as they did with Iraq, they would disable the nuclear capability in Iran. with or without obama's overt permission. obama did already sell them the bombs to do the job. as always with him its the actions and not the words that matter. smoke and mirrors and not even good at it.

Carrying out an attack on Iran is vastly more complicated, and really nothing like, the Israeli attack on Syrian and Iraqi nuclear sites. The logistics are far more complicated.
 
The simple logistics of flying that distance...with a payload large enough to do anything...while protecting your fuel tankers in the air...is a major issue. Since the ordinance needed is fairly heavy to do enough damage..and the loss of extra fuel that leads to...Plus Iran would attack back...100%.
 
I am not saying they cannot do it -- but the idea that they can simply carry it with the same ease that they bombed sites in Syria and Iraq is absurd.

Agreed. Israel can't do this alone. They know it and so does Obama. Israel is a tiny area and I'm sure Iran has enough assets in place to destroy them. Maybe not on a nuclear level, but you have to remember they have Hezbollah on the north and Hamas/PA and now Egypt on their south. Even Syria still has capacity to come in from the east.

A few years ago, Amadjhad said that they were willing to sacrafice a third of their country inorder to destroy Israel. They also belive that a third word war would usher in the Caliphate, they are taunting that every day, if you read the news. I don't think most people on this planet realize just how serious of a time we are heading into. Russia and China have aligned themselves and are helping to supply Iran. Russia has warned us more than once to not attack Iran. So little Israel is the usual scapegoat to be the excuse for something mush bigger at stake. Iran knows it, that's why they are so damn cocky. Iran calls us the big Satan and Israel the little Satan. Guess who their real target is?
 
A lot in my opinion. Even more so from an economic standpoint. Our military uses many things developed and made in Israel. We have large companies doing a lot of business there, the intelligence sharing alone is worth a good relationship, we refuel planes there, can access naval ports -- we don't have to commit troops to that immediate area -- I believe it was a former Sec. of State (don't remember which one off hand) that said "Israel is the largest American aircraft carrier in the region -- and it cannot be moved, sunk, or displaced." -- I am not sure if that is the exact quote, but you get the intention.

I get your point. I can see that 30-40 years ago Israel was considered a strategic location, I'm not so sure it's as important today. I can see the value of planes on long flights re-fueling there. We do have this sort of relationship with many nations and they don't treat us like their dog. As for the intelligence, I doubt the veracity of Israeli intelligence. I'm not saying that we shouldn't deal with them, I'm just saying that they seem to have an extremely inflated sense of their importance to us, and regardless of anyone's opinion of our current President, this "snap-to" bullcrap coming from some of their officials needs to stop, now.



I don't think that is true -- for two main reasons I would argue. 1) Pakistan's issues when they went nuclear were not in the Middle East, it was really a defense against India, and nuclear Pakistan did not upset the balance of power in the Middle East because it really didn't offer a threat to others nation vying for regional hegemony -- this is not the case today with a nuclear Iran. 2) Technology hurdles and the Cold War. I don't think anyone in the Middle East could have really quickly obtained a weapon at the time Pakistan did, (without a lot of outside help) and I don't think they really had as much incentive. With the Cold War raging, the United States and Soviet nuclear deterrent umbrellas were more than enough to satisfy most governments. I think this is changing however.

Back when Pakistan was developing a nuclear program the same sorts of articles and opinions appeared in the media. I've seen quite a few articles stating that Pakistan is currently helping Iran so if someone believes the falling domino theory it doesn't make any sense to go after the second domino but ignore the first domino.
 
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I get your point. I can see that 30-40 years ago Israel was considered a strategic location, I'm not so sure it's as important today. I can see the value of planes on long flights re-fueling there. We do have this sort of relationship with many nations and they don't treat us like their dog. As for the intelligence, I doubt the veracity of Israeli intelligence. I'm not saying that we shouldn't deal with them, I'm just saying that they seem to have an extremely inflated sense of their importance to us, and regardless of anyone's opinion of our current President, this "snap-to" bullcrap coming from some of their officials needs to stop, now.

Well I can agree we should not just blindly do what they want us to do -- but I view our relationship with them as extremely important, both from an economic, and military aspect.

Back when Pakistan was developing a nuclear program the same sorts of articles and opinions appeared in the media. I've seen quite a few articles stating that Pakistan is currently helping Iran so if someone believes the falling domino theory it doesn't make any sense to go after the second domino but ignore the first domino.

I don't think this argument flies anymore. In my opinion, the whole domino theory idea during the Cold War doesn't hold much weight because our security umbrella was large and credible, therefore despite nation X becoming a nuclear power, nation Y felt secure because we assured them we would protect them -- while this remains the case, I think attitudes are starting shift in a post Cold War world.

Even nations like Japan are loudly doubting the credibility of the United States deterrent (in the wake of North Korean testing), and there is a larger and larger push for Japan to pursue its own program. Japan already more or less has the capability, they just choose not to weaponize -- it is the same with South Korea. These nations continue to know that we will back them 100% for the time being.

Apply that to the Middle East however, a nuclear Iran will grossly upset the balance of power in the region -- and can we really expect Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc to rely solely on the United States to counter that? We don't seem to be much of a counter now -- in the absence of a nuclear Iran. I would not expect these nations to put their security solely in our hands -- and if you read the Wikileak cables,and look at history, these nations hate each other.

I would think that if Iran proves it has a nuclear capability (not even a weapon, just a capability), you will start to see Egypt and and Saudi Arabia start to develop their own capabilities. Certainly I think that a strong President could prevent such things, even in the face of the nuclear capable Iran, but I don't think President Obama (or Gov. Romney) is going to be able to do that.

To address the issue of Pakistan, certain the AQ Khan network has been problematic in many areas, and the inability of Pakistan to really control their own territory is troubling. In terms of proliferation worries, a collapsing Pakistan is probably more of a challenge than Iran -- which is why we have been pouring money into Pakistan in an effort to at least protect nuclear sites etc.
 
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