Colin Powell to endorse Obama?

[Libsmasher]

I have read other things as well, I have seen the man speak actually. At Elmendorf AFB in 1997.

Before I address the issues below, I find it comical you are questioning him on the two issues the left generally brings up.

Does the validity of a criticism depend on who brings it up?

Huh? This is your critique? That is the job of the CIA. While the SecState and the Dicrector of the CIA work closely together, it is the job of the CIA to already provide accurate intel to State.

Do you think YOU would make damn sure FOR YOURSELF about evidence used to launch a WAR?? I would, and I think ANYBODY who was in his position and COMPETENT would go to the CIA and say "convince me, and this better be very, very good."

He didnt pull the trigger, he didnt order anyone to do anything. It didnt even happen when he was in Vietnam. He wrote a letter basically telling an enlisted man to mind his own business. He wasnt involved in any serious cover up. I think the whole thing is being blown out of proportion.

You're whitewashing his whitewash.

 

[Bunz]

Does the validity of a criticism depend on who brings it up?

Not really, but the irony is clear.

Do you think YOU would make damn sure FOR YOURSELF about evidence used to launch a WAR?? I would, and I think ANYBODY who was in his position and COMPETENT would go to the CIA and say "convince me, and this better be very, very good."

Yes I would have, and I have no indication he didnt do that himself. But again, where was the CIA and the Bush Administration in this?

As a side note, are you conceding the fact the WMD argument was questionable?

You're whitewashing his whitewash.

Thats a good line,
What would you have done different?

 

[Libsmasher]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Libsmasher
Does the validity of a criticism depend on who brings it up?

Not really, but the irony is clear.

Fine, but not relevent to the subject of the thread.

Quote:
Do you think YOU would make damn sure FOR YOURSELF about evidence used to launch a WAR?? I would, and I think ANYBODY who was in his position and COMPETENT would go to the CIA and say "convince me, and this better be very, very good."

Yes I would have, and I have no indication he didnt do that himself. But again, where was the CIA and the Bush Administration in this?

You have no indication he DID do it - he went to the UN with surveillance photos that he claimed were mobile poison gas vehicles, etc, and it turned out he was wrong. Again, the thread is about Powell - try to focus.

As a side note, are you conceding the fact the WMD argument was questionable?

No - just that Powell demonstrated his career-long incompetence during that event.

Quote:
You're whitewashing his whitewash.

Thats a good line,
What would you have done different?

Check out a very serious allegation - quantum mechanics for you?

 

[Bunz]

Fine, but not relevent to the subject of the thread.

Well that remains to be seen.

You have no indication he DID do it

You should read "Fiasco". There is no question that Powell was skeptical about the whole thing. He was also not in charge of collecting or administering intel. Nor was he in change of military matters. You can check Bush, Cheney, Tenet, Rummy and Condi for that.
Powell's failure was not gathering the international support that was necessary to undertake this sort of operation responsibly.

he went to the UN with surveillance photos that he claimed were mobile poison gas vehicles, etc, and it turned out he was wrong. Again, the thread is about Powell - try to focus.

He did make a that speech. I guess I am not sure he was lying. Last I heard, those trucks went to Syria.

No - just that Powell demonstrated his career-long incompetence during that event.

Slander.

Check out a very serious allegation - quantum mechanics for you?

Yeah, a divisional XO sending a written correspondance to an enlisted man that gave any details about the next course of action or an attaboy
Of course he would try to put the best spin possible. What did you expect him to say?
This is the sentence in question.

"In direct refutation of this portrayal is the fact that relations between Americal soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent."

A letter that to my knowledge has never been made public. Id like to know what the rest of the letter contains before I pass any judgement on this.

Could you imagine if he would have written a letter that says,
Thanks Sarge, dont worry, everyone involved is going to the firing squad because the US Army had a major screw up. Dont feel to bad though, because there are a million Vietnamese who love us!
Keep your condoms over your muzzle
Major Powell.

 

[Libsmasher]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Libsmasher
Fine, but not relevent to the subject of the thread.

Well that remains to be seen.

Whaaaattttt????

Quote:
You have no indication he DID do it

You should read "Fiasco". There is no question that Powell was skeptical about the whole thing. He was also not in charge of collecting or administering intel. Nor was he in change of military matters. You can check Bush, Cheney, Tenet, Rummy and Condi for that.

Sorry, skepticism doesn't make a leader - correct ACTIONS do. And you talk about irony - Bush wasn't in charge of collecting/analyzing intel either, but that has never impeded the "Bush lied" mantra. The point is not one about departmental allocation of responsibilities, but rather making the extra effort to be certain about the basis for supporting a decision as grave as going to war.

Quote:
he went to the UN with surveillance photos that he claimed were mobile poison gas vehicles, etc, and it turned out he was wrong. Again, the thread is about Powell - try to focus

.

He did make a that speech. I guess I am not sure he was lying. Last I heard, those trucks went to Syria.

I've never accused him of lying. Rather, he presented some info that turned out to be false.

Quote:
No - just that Powell demonstrated his career-long incompetence during that event.

Slander.

Slander, my ass. The public record of his ineptness speaks for itself.

Quote:
Check out a very serious allegation - quantum mechanics for you?

Yeah, a divisional XO sending a written correspondance to an enlisted man that gave any details about the next course of action or an attaboy
Of course he would try to put the best spin possible. What did you expect him to say?
This is the sentence in question.

Quote:
"In direct refutation of this portrayal is the fact that relations between Americal soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent."

A letter that to my knowledge has never been made public. Id like to know what the rest of the letter contains before I pass any judgement on this.

Could you imagine if he would have written a letter that says,
Thanks Sarge, dont worry, everyone involved is going to the firing squad because the US Army had a major screw up. Dont feel to bad though, because there are a million Vietnamese who love us!
Keep your condoms over your muzzle
Major Powell.

I don't know about all that. Someone makes an allegation of war crimes. Worth checking out? Yep. Did Powell check it out? Nope.

 

[Bunz]

Sorry, skepticism doesn't make a leader - correct ACTIONS do.

In the two situations we are discussing, very few would have taken dramatically different actions concerning the circumstances involved. Sure he could have not used that one sentence in a single letter.

And you talk about irony - Bush wasn't in charge of collecting/analyzing intel either,

Bush is CoC. He is the "decider" the soul person who is the jury on deciding what was true, then making policy decisions based on the conclusions made by the President.

The point is not one about departmental allocation of responsibilities, but rather making the extra effort to be certain about the basis for supporting a decision as grave as going to war.

He was the only one who did! He was overruled and marginalized because of it. Powell was given just a small amount of time one on one with the President to try to stop the train. It didnt work. What else do you suggest he have done?

I've never accused him of lying. Rather, he presented some info that turned out to be false.

Now this is a howler.

Slander, my ass. The public record of his ineptness speaks for itself.

Well you seem to be focused on two very specific things, a single sentence in one letter that has never been published. And a speech made to the UN, where he "didnt lie, but "Rather, he presented some info that turned out to be false." Two questionable actions in a year 40 year career, with a record full of success. Do you have anything else?

I don't know about all that. Someone makes an allegation of war crimes. Worth checking out? Yep. Did Powell check it out? Nope.

What would you have done?

 

[Libsmasher]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Libsmasher
Sorry, skepticism doesn't make a leader - correct ACTIONS do.

In the two situations we are discussing, very few would have taken dramatically different actions concerning the circumstances involved. Sure he could have not used that one sentence in a single letter.

Baloney - the incident finally came to light after another soldier, Ron Ridenhour, wrote a letter to Congressman Morris Udall, who didn't ignore it like Powell, who had been directly charged by higher ups to investigate it. No ifs, in one of the most important tests of his military career, Powell failed.

Quote:
And you talk about irony - Bush wasn't in charge of collecting/analyzing intel either,

Bush is CoC. He is the "decider" the soul person who is the jury on deciding what was true, then making policy decisions based on the conclusions made by the President.

Again your obsession with this hierarchy and that department. Any cabinet level or higher person connected with this should have taken the initiative to get to the truth.

Quote:
The point is not one about departmental allocation of responsibilities, but rather making the extra effort to be certain about the basis for supporting a decision as grave as going to war.

He was the only one who did!

Uh, no he didn't.

He was overruled and marginalized because of it. Powell was given just a small amount of time one on one with the President to try to stop the train. It didnt work. What else do you suggest he have done?

Completely false. He argued against invasion, but never questioned, in the time frame that it mattered, the quality of the intelligence on which the invasion was based.

Quote:
I've never accused him of lying. Rather, he presented some info that turned out to be false.

Now this is a howler.

You're given to laugh for no reason?

Quote:
Slander, my ass. The public record of his ineptness speaks for itself.

Well you seem to be focused on two very specific things, a single sentence in one letter that has never been published. And a speech made to the UN, where he "didnt lie, but "Rather, he presented some info that turned out to be false." Two questionable actions in a year 40 year career, with a record full of success.

You're trying to minimize things with artful terms. Put another way: "He didn't uncover the worst massacre in US military history when charged with it, and he failed to verify evidence for going to war in one of the longest US wars in history." A big deal? Naahhhhhhh

Do you have anything else?

How about this:

In the early 1980s, Powell served at Fort Carson, Colorado. It was there that he had a major clash with General John Hudachek, his commander. Hudachek said in an efficiency evaluation that Powell was a poor leader who should not be promoted. Powell's rising military career was unhindered by Hudachek's evaluation report.

As we saw with Obama's razor thin resume, apparently nothing stops or trumps "affirmative action".

Quote:
I don't know about all that. Someone makes an allegation of war crimes. Worth checking out? Yep. Did Powell check it out? Nope.

What would you have done?

Uh........hold onto your hat.......ready for this????

CHECK IT OUT.

 

[Pandora]

So now that Powell endorsed him, does that mean Powell who was for the war in the beginning is admitting he himself doesn’t have the judgment to lead but obama does?

 

[Pandora]

OK I basicly lost all respect I had for Powell. His reasons for endorsing Obama were flat stupid.

Because McCain taked about Ayers and because "they" say he is a muslim. McCain never said that, some lady did at his rally and he corrected her and got crap for it. But instead Powell lies and says McCains camp is calling Obama a muslim.
then he lied and said now they are attacking him by calling him a socialsit. First off they are not, but people like me are. second its true so if the shoe fits.

I have no more respect for him. I would have more respect for him if he just endorsed him becuase he was black than to lie and attack McCain for something McCain isnt doing.

low and dirty

 

[Popeye]

OK I basicly lost all respect I had for Powell. His reasons for endorsing Obama were flat stupid.

Because McCain taked about Ayers and because "they" say he is a muslim. McCain never said that, some lady did at his rally and he corrected her and got crap for it. But instead Powell lies and says McCains camp is calling Obama a muslim.
then he lied and said now they are attacking him by calling him a socialsit. First off they are not, but people like me are. second its true so if the shoe fits.

I have no more respect for him. I would have more respect for him if he just endorsed him becuase he was black than to lie and attack McCain for something McCain isnt doing.

low and dirty

I see, the man that you and others have been showcasing as a successful black man within the GOP and an example of why we shouldn't consider the Republican Party racist, is suddenly no good. You do realize your entire post just reeks of sour grapes?

As to the endorsement, Powell said he didn't like the robo sliming calls that have been taking place and you can't blame him. He also seems to have picked up on the underlying current of hate permeating the McCain/Palin campaign but he gave other reasons for the endorsement as well.

Notably, he specified that "decisions that came out of the conventions" played a role in his decision, strongly suggesting that McCain's choice of Palin cost McCain the chance of Powell's support. Thanks again Sarah!

Also interesting was Powell's claim that the two men's response to the economic response played a role. He said that gave him an opportunity to evaluate the two men's "judgment" and way of "approaching a problem."He praised Obama's "calm, patient, intellectual, steady approach to problem solving."

It's never too late to late to break those chains that bind you...and the General has done exactly that.

 

[top gun]

It was a GREAT ENDORSEMENT for Senator Obama from General Colin Powell today!

Especially after he had even contributed to the McCain campaign back in the primaries.

But the erratic behavior of McCain, the pick of the woefully unqualified Palin, the mean spirited McCain smear campaign and honestly just the credibility Senator Obama has obtained with his calm rational well thought out & intelligent behavior made it's own clear case for the Powell endorsement!

AND TODAY IT CAME!

 

[Pandora]

I see, the man that you and others have been showcasing as a successful black man within the GOP and an example of why we shouldn't consider the Republican Party racist, is suddenly no good. You do realize your entire post just reeks of sour grapes?

As to the endorsement, Powell said he didn't like the robo sliming calls that have been taking place and you can't blame him. He also seems to have picked up on the underlying current of hate permeating the McCain/Palin campaign but he gave other reasons for the endorsement as well.

Notably, he specified that "decisions that came out of the conventions" played a role in his decision, strongly suggesting that McCain's choice of Palin cost McCain the chance of Powell's support. Thanks again Sarah!

Also interesting was Powell's claim that the two men's response to the economic response played a role. He said that gave him an opportunity to evaluate the two men's "judgment" and way of "approaching a problem."He praised Obama's "calm, patient, intellectual, steady approach to problem solving."

It's never too late to late to break those chains that bind you...and the General has done exactly that.

Well that is because that is exactly what you want to see when reading my posts.

I dont think Powell is less of a human for the endorsment.

Did you read my first post on this thread? the one before he actually endorsed? You should read it. I had no problem with him saying I am endorsing Obama.

My problem is the reasons he decided to list for the endorsement. Those reasons reduce my respect for the man. They were invalid reasons, made up reasons and one was an opinion but not one I share.

I did not expect him to go out and bash McCain or the war just to please Obama, He could have easily gave a glowing endorsement with out bashing the people he clailms he isnt endorsing because they bash.

He is still a good and decent person I just have lost respect for him as someone I would listen to about an important issue.

 

[Pandora]

Here, incase you missed my post BEFORE the endorsment


Powell endorsing him won’t bother me at all. I don’t consider Powell a conservative so it seems normal for him to endorse Obama, but another African American conservative endorsed him and that did bother me. Race before political beliefs? That does not set right with me.

I am native and I only know of one native I would ever endorse to be in office because he is also conservative not because he is native. Most natives bother me and I feel sorrier for them than anything else. I wouldn’t jump into the trash they do just because they are native like me, and that’s how I felt about the conservative guy (who I can not remember his name) but he endorsed Obama.

But Powell, more power to him. Its no compromise for him to do it, he is not really in the right party for his political beliefs anyways... I can imagine African American men must be very proud of Obama if for nothing else, he was able to come so much further than any of them thought he could.

 

[Pandora]

it was his bashing the republicans and mccain for bashing obama style endorsement that really bothered me. some of it flat false too, but hey why let truth get in the way of a good endorsement.


on social issues he is probably dead on with obama, and there is no reason he shouldnt endorse him. the war thing is a bit tricky but its not like powell is going to run for anything so it doesnt really matter.

he also made no mention of how unfair and flat cruel the obama campaign has been.. he made it sound like this freaking angel from god sits there so good and the bad people keep spreading lies about him,

that kind of stuff didnt set well with me, but im just one person

 

[Popeye]

it was his bashing the republicans and mccain for bashing obama style endorsement that really bothered me. some of it flat false too, but hey why let truth get in the way of a good endorsement.


on social issues he is probably dead on with obama, and there is no reason he shouldnt endorse him. the war thing is a bit tricky but its not like powell is going to run for anything so it doesnt really matter.

he also made no mention of how unfair and flat cruel the obama campaign has been.. he made it sound like this freaking angel from god sits there so good and the bad people keep spreading lies about him,

that kind of stuff didnt set well with me, but im just one person

Obviously you're entitled to your opinion..I just don't happen to share it, particularly after watching the video of Powell's endorsement.