Supreme Court Rejects Campaign Spending Limits

GenSeca is arguing for the sake of it, he knows perfectly well that money runs the government and elections.
That wasn't the topic, you have taken to arguing a different topic and applying my words about a different topic to create a strawman.

Please note the title of the thread: Supreme Court Rejects Campaign Spending Limits

The Left has been claiming that Money=Votes in elections, it was that fallacy that I have argued against. You applied my statements to a different topic, that of money buying votes in the legislature, and thereby created your strawman:

Lets take a look... You said:
The billions spent on Lobbists and bribes to government officials don't buy votes?

To which I replied:
On that we don't disagree but that wasn't the topic of the thread.

I was specifically dealing with campaign financing in my remarks, that is, the money used to get politicians elected. You clung to a different topic, that of politicians who had already been elected getting money for votes in the legislature and on that we have no disagreement.

So if you're done beating up on that poor strawman, please pick a specific topic and I will be glad to discuss it with you.
 
Werbung:
That wasn't the topic, you have taken to arguing a different topic and applying my words about a different topic to create a strawman.

Please note the title of the thread: Supreme Court Rejects Campaign Spending Limits

The Left has been claiming that Money=Votes in elections, it was that fallacy that I have argued against. You applied my statements to a different topic, that of money buying votes in the legislature, and thereby created your strawman:

Lets take a look... You said:


To which I replied:


I was specifically dealing with campaign financing in my remarks, that is, the money used to get politicians elected. You clung to a different topic, that of politicians who had already been elected getting money for votes in the legislature and on that we have no disagreement.

So if you're done beating up on that poor strawman, please pick a specific topic and I will be glad to discuss it with you.

Well, golly, I'm sure sorry I spread a wider net than you wanted to address. Are we only discussing campaign limits in electing people? Or can we talk about buying votes in referendums too? I spoke directly to your subject in reference to the Measure 8 spending.

I have also addressed the buying of votes in the election process by large corporations and foreign entities--or aren't those purchased votes part of the discussion?

I can't fathom why you are arguing this when you know it's not true, big money wins more elections and that's why so much money gets put into the process. All of the government is for sale--even though you try to make it into a strawman--despite your denials.
 
I take it you mean me, what exactly did you want to know ?

How many times do I have to post it? Read my posts, are you alright with foreign governments and other foreign entities contributing unlimited amounts of money into our electoral system? The examples I gave would be Red China and Saudi Arabia supporting Obie in his destruction of America.
 
How many times do I have to post it? Read my posts, are you alright with foreign governments and other foreign entities contributing unlimited amounts of money into our electoral system? The examples I gave would be Red China and Saudi Arabia supporting Obie in his destruction of America.

Red China and Saudi Arabia and labor unions helped obama by pouring/funneling money to help get him elected before the ruling came down from the SC, so why does the ruling bother you? What you fear has already been happening.
 
I said it in another thread, but I'll say it here, too. The same people who want to give foreign terrorists American Constitutional rights with respect to arrest, interrogation, and prosecution, don't want to give legitimate foreign business people free speech rights.
 
I said it in another thread, but I'll say it here, too. The same people who want to give foreign terrorists American Constitutional rights with respect to arrest, interrogation, and prosecution, don't want to give legitimate foreign business people free speech rights.
What 'free speech rights' are they not getting now? They can write editorials/place huge ads/set up a polling place/send out any and all flyer's that they want to vial our mail system...purchase a calling listing from several mail order locations and phone your home...so just exactly how are 'legitimate foreign business' getting their 'FREE SPEECH' squashed.
THEY just don't need to be involved in our election processes;)
 
Well, golly, I'm sure sorry I spread a wider net than you wanted to address.

You took my comments about one topic, applied them to another, then attacked me for positions on a topic that I don't hold... You should be sorry for that.

I have also addressed the buying of votes in the election process by large corporations and foreign entities--or aren't those purchased votes part of the discussion?
If you think they can buy votes in the legislature (through lobbying etc.) then we agree. However, if you believe they can buy the votes of the general public to get a particular politician elected, then we disagree.

I can name specific legislators who have been given money by specific groups to vote a certain way on legislation. I have never been offered money by a corporation or foreign entity to vote for a particular candidate in an election.

So if you've recieved money from corporations and/or foreign entities to vote for a particular candidate in an election, I would be glad to hear about it.

big money wins more elections and that's why so much money gets put into the process.
It's like gambling, they bet big to win big but when they lose, they lose big. Corporations and other special interest groups are only able to get the special treatment from the government they do because of our mixed economy, which allows, even encourages, politicians to crawl in bed with special interest groups.

They funnel private money to the politician, the politician funnels public funds to the corporation, both of them are happy and its the taxpayer that foots the bill.

Unlike you, I know exactly where the problem is and how to stop it.
 
You took my comments about one topic, applied them to another, then attacked me for positions on a topic that I don't hold... You should be sorry for that.


If you think they can buy votes in the legislature (through lobbying etc.) then we agree. However, if you believe they can buy the votes of the general public to get a particular politician elected, then we disagree.

I can name specific legislators who have been given money by specific groups to vote a certain way on legislation. I have never been offered money by a corporation or foreign entity to vote for a particular candidate in an election.

So if you've recieved money from corporations and/or foreign entities to vote for a particular candidate in an election, I would be glad to hear about it.


It's like gambling, they bet big to win big but when they lose, they lose big. Corporations and other special interest groups are only able to get the special treatment from the government they do because of our mixed economy, which allows, even encourages, politicians to crawl in bed with special interest groups.

They funnel private money to the politician, the politician funnels public funds to the corporation, both of them are happy and its the taxpayer that foots the bill.

Unlike you, I know exactly where the problem is and how to stop it.



Cindy McKinney got a lot of arab money to no avail.
While people are generally stupid, they can see which way the wind blows here and there.
 
You people are focusing on the wrong Amendment for redress. The 9th assures us that no one may trump another.

The 14th endows us with a situation of equality where no law passed [or indeed enforced] may abridge anyone of that equality. Allowing wealth to create conditions of loss of personal empowerment on behalf of ordinary ciitzens is in violation of this Amendment. And further, Congress alone has been appointed by the Constitution to enforce the 14th.

In other words, no condition of anyone's free speech may effectively squash the ability of others to speak freely.

Then there is the real problem of Al qaida infiltrating our very electoral process. Oil rich Middle East interests with nearly unlimited funds could stack our Congress with their people. Oh and the fact that corporations, since they are not made up entirely of domestic owners, do not pass the test of US citizenship.
 
That last point may be the stinker for the SCOTUS ruling. The Constitution applies to US citizens, not foreign citizens. And because probably all bigger corporations have foreign stockholders, they may not at all be condered "citizens". Period, unless every foreign stockholder has to go through the process of naturalization.

If I could pass an Amendment it would be that any potential Supreme Court Justice must have obviously a degree and many years of practice in law, but they must have an area of expertise of constitutional-law or they don't get the position.

It wouldn't totally eliminate corruption, but it would make them more accountable. It would be much harder for them to say "oh, I didn't know about that part of the Constitution"...:cool:
 
You people are focusing on the wrong Amendment for redress. The 9th assures us that no one may trump another.

The 14th endows us with a situation of equality where no law passed [or indeed enforced] may abridge anyone of that equality. Allowing wealth to create conditions of loss of personal empowerment on behalf of ordinary ciitzens is in violation of this Amendment. And further, Congress alone has been appointed by the Constitution to enforce the 14th.

In other words, no condition of anyone's free speech may effectively squash the ability of others to speak freely.

Then there is the real problem of Al qaida infiltrating our very electoral process. Oil rich Middle East interests with nearly unlimited funds could stack our Congress with their people. Oh and the fact that corporations, since they are not made up entirely of domestic owners, do not pass the test of US citizenship.


Whose free speech is abridged ? No one.
Free speech is not limited to citizens.

Dubai does not appear to have unlimited funds having just gone into default.
 
That last point may be the stinker for the SCOTUS ruling. The Constitution applies to US citizens, not foreign citizens. And because probably all bigger corporations have foreign stockholders, they may not at all be condered "citizens". Period, unless every foreign stockholder has to go through the process of naturalization.

If I could pass an Amendment it would be that any potential Supreme Court Justice must have obviously a degree and many years of practice in law, but they must have an area of expertise of constitutional-law or they don't get the position.

It wouldn't totally eliminate corruption, but it would make them more accountable. It would be much harder for them to say "oh, I didn't know about that part of the Constitution"...:cool:



Wrong.
 
There you have it, Constitutional "expert" dogtowner has spoken. You can all go home now...lol..

Whose free speech is abridged?
Oh that's easy, those vast majority of US citizens who cannot afford to compete for air time and "punch" of quality in advertising production which has been proven to sway the subconscious minds of people in spite of their better reasoning power. That's who.

And they'll be out-competed [abridged of the potency of their free speech, emasculated if you will] by partially-owned-by-foreigners corporations multi-supercitizen fiscal fortresses. Mike Judge is a visionary in his "Idiocracy" film. This turning over of the governance of the People by the People and for the People instead to corporate supercitizens was the foundation of all that went awry with our country in the fictional? future-setting. My favorite scene was one of the main character "Not Sure" watching the sign for Fuddruckers morph into...well you'll just have to see what unbridled corporate influence did. The movie is darkly-hilarious and quite timely. I recommend it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0yQunhOaU0
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0O7_3o3BrI
 
There you have it, Constitutional "expert" dogtowner has spoken. You can all go home now...lol..


Oh that's easy, those vast majority of US citizens who cannot afford to compete for air time and "punch" of quality in advertising production which has been proven to sway the subconscious minds of people in spite of their better reasoning power. That's who.

And they'll be out-competed [abridged of the potency of their free speech, emasculated if you will] by partially-owned-by-foreigners corporations multi-supercitizen fiscal fortresses. Mike Judge is a visionary in his "Idiocracy" film. This turning over of the governance of the People by the People and for the People instead to corporate supercitizens was the foundation of all that went awry with our country in the fictional? future-setting. My favorite scene was one of the main character "Not Sure" watching the sign for Fuddruckers morph into...well you'll just have to see what unbridled corporate influence did. The movie is darkly-hilarious and quite timely. I recommend it.



OK, so you agree that nobody is having their free speech abridged. At least we've settled that.

If these people are super-citizens, do they get extra votes ?
 
Werbung:
I think that it would behoove all of us to read/understand the court cases that had been filed since & during the Signing of the McCain-Feingold Bill and it may be a clarifying argument for why the supreme court overturned this bill that was supported by the republicans in 2002. I would appear that many of the 'Parties' that were trying to operate outside of the Rules/Regulations were receiveing some serious fines and that wasn't making a lot of the lobbyist happy and in-turn they were poking at the people/parties that they were trying to support for election! It was evident that there were a numerous amount of special interest groups trying to side step the RULES/GUIDELINES and that caused a lot of federal court cases to be filed!

The Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act of 2002 (BCRA, McCain–Feingold Act, Pub.L. 107-155, 116 Stat. 81, enacted March 27, 2002, H.R. 2356)
Isn't it interesting that McCain seems to have just rolled over on this Supreme Court ruling and that only Feingold has come out as very upset about this change...hmmm John McCain seems to have lost his back bone somewhere along the way!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipartisan_Campaign_Reform_Act
Provisions of the legislation were challenged as unconstitutional by a group of plaintiffs led by then-Senate Majority Whip Mitch McConnell, a long-time opponent of the bill. President Bush signed the law despite "reservations about the constitutionality of the broad ban on issue advertising."[1] He appeared to expect that the Supreme Court would overturn some of its key provisions. But, in December 2003, the Supreme Court upheld most of the legislation in McConnell v. FEC.
Subsequently, political parties and "watchdog" organizations have filed complaints with the FEC concerning the raising and spending of soft money by so-called "527 organizations" — organizations claiming tax-exemption as "political organizations" under Section 527 of the Internal Revenue Code (26 U.S.C. § 527), but not registering as "political committees" under the Federal Election Campaign Act, which uses a different legal definition. These organizations have been established on both sides of the political aisle, and have included high profile organizations such as the Media Fund and the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. 527s are financed in large part by wealthy individuals, labor unions, and businesses[citation needed]. 527s pre-dated McCain-Feingold but grew in popularity after the law took effect. In May 2004, the FEC voted to not write new rules on the application of federal campaign finance laws to 527 organizations. Although the FEC did promulgate a new rule in the fall of 2004 requiring some 527s participating in federal campaigns to use at least 50% "hard money" (contributions regulated by the Federal Election Campaign Act) to pay their expenses, the FEC did not change its regulations on when a 527 organization must register as a federal "political committee"-prompting Representatives Shays and Meehan to file a federal court lawsuit against the FEC for the Commission's failure to adopt a 527 rule. In September, 2007, a Federal District Court ruled in favor of the FEC, against Congressmen Shays and Meehan.
In December 2006 the FEC entered settlements with three 527 groups the Commission found to have violated federal law by failing to register as "political committees" and abide by contribution limits, source prohibitions and disclosure requirements during the 2004 election cycle. Swift Boat Veterans for Truth was fined $299,500; the League of Conservation Voters was fined $180,000; MoveOn.org was fined $150,000. In February 2007, the 527 organization Progress for America Voter Fund was likewise fined $750,000 for its failure to abide by federal campaign finance laws during the 2004 election cycle.
In June 2007 the U.S. Supreme Court held, in Federal Election Commission v. Wisconsin Right to Life, Inc., that BCRA's limitations on corporate and labor union funding of broadcast ads mentioning a candidate within 30 days of a primary or caucus or 60 days of a general election are unconstitutional as applied to ads susceptible of a reasonable interpretation other than as an appeal to vote for or against a specific candidate. Some election law experts believe the new exception will render BCRA's "electioneering communication" provisions meaningless, while others believe the new exception is quite narrow. The Federal Election Commission's interpretation and application of the new exception during the 2008 election cycle will determine the true scope and impact of the Court's decision.
In June, 2008, the section of the act known as the "millionaire's amendment" was overturned by the Supreme Court in Davis v. Federal Election Commission [2]. This provision had attempted to "equalize" campaigns by providing that the legal limit on contributions would increase for a candidate who was substantially outspent by an opposing candidate using personal wealth.
In March 2009, the U.S. Supreme Court heard oral arguments in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, regarding whether or not a heavily political documentary (about Hillary Clinton) could be considered a political ad.[1] In January 2010, the Supreme Court struck those sections down, saying, "If the First Amendment has any force, it prohibits Congress from fining or jailing citizens, or associations of citizens, for simply engaging in political speech.” Specifically, Citizens struck down campaign financing laws related to corporations and unions; law previously banned the broadcast, cable or satellite transmission of “electioneering communications” paid for by corporations in the 30 days before a presidential primary and in the 60 days before the general election. The minority said the court was making a mistake treating the voices of corporations as similar to those of people.[2]
<more to this story source> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipartisan_Campaign_Reform_Act
 
Back
Top