Spoke at Town Hall today

[Pandora]

Well you tell everybody you're a registered Democrat so it's not surprising you don't get Lunatic Right e-mails. I don't get them either. My younger brother the registered Republican... now he gets them. Fact is they are out there in huge numbers. So huge that it's become a full time job for people just to debunk all the lies contained therein.

And they started way WAY before any of the MoveOn stuff. Remember the Democrats wanted to do the Town Halls to adequately inform people so the "you're not being transparent" argument wouldn't be used against them.

They never planned on organized bused in mob tactics. It took them awhile to counter that.

What group was before moveon.org? That is the first group I can think of that organized a sect of voters.

Do you know the name of the republican group who does this?

 

[top gun]

What group was before moveon.org? That is the first group I can think of that organized a sect of voters.

Do you know the name of the republican group who does this?

I don't know what the leading independent Progressive group was before MoveOn. But there are others that are all inclusive for Progressive ideas (like Progress Ohio that I'm also a member of) and many others that back singular ideas.

And I have no problem with "groups" from either side. As long as they are peaceful and don't try and stop others from obtaining the information that they came to get.

The Republicans run things in a slightly different way. Republicans groups are more likely to be cloaked in some generic patriotic sounding name as to not immediately tip off their true purpose.

These show some good examples...

 

[BigRob]

Yes I get invitations to events from no less that 4 or 5 sources one of which is MoveOn.

It is disappointing that you get emails from a group that puts out trash like this.

 

[top gun]

It is disappointing that you get emails from a group that puts out trash like this.

Leave it to you Rob to find a MoveOn ad that I'd have to give you're question a yes too.

I think it's become far too easy (read that cheap shot) for both sides to go straight from American policy decisions by elected officials that they just don't agree with... to Adolph Hitler.

Although in general I'm very pleased with the MoveOn. The way the system is set up you need a big 501 (c)(4) group to be able to go after things and not be directly tied to the Party. They're not perfect... I also thought the (Petreaus/betray us) ad was not great judgment. But on balance there's been hundreds of MoveOn ads I absolutely loved.

And again Bush got himself not just in America but internationally in some Hitler comparison problems when it came out that he himself had in fact approved TORTURE for captured & defenseless detainees.

That following the fact the Bush administration guaranteed there were WMD's in Iraq in the first place and citing that created a critical necessity to invade Iraq when there were in fact absolutely no WMD's found there at all... and that heightened the concept of an torturing invader even more.

But still I don't think any American President is Hitler.

 

[BigRob]

Leave it to you Rob to find a MoveOn ad that I'd have to give you're question a yes too.

I think it's become far too easy (read that cheap shot) for both sides to go straight from American policy decisions by elected officials that they just don't agree with... to Adolph Hitler.

I agree, perhaps we should "move on."

Although in general I'm very pleased with the MoveOn. The way the system is set up you need a big 501 (c)(4) group to be able to go after things and not be directly tied to the Party. They're not perfect... I also thought the (Petreaus/betray us) ad was not great judgment. But on balance there's been hundreds of MoveOn ads I absolutely loved.

I agree, that ad was in poor taste as well. I can agree that we need the big 501 c4's, I just wish we could see more of them that are less blatantly partisan.

And again Bush got himself not just in America but internationally in some Hitler comparison problems when it came out that he himself had in fact approved TORTURE for captured & defenseless detainees.

Well, Bush, with Congressional approval, approved enhanced interrogation methods that were in line with the Geneva Conventions.

That following the fact the Bush administration guaranteed there were WMD's in Iraq in the first place and citing that created a critical necessity to invade Iraq when there were in fact absolutely no WMD's found there at all... and that heightened the concept of an torturing invader even more.

Well, in the National Security Strategy of 2002, he did declare that we would follow a preemption strategy. He stated "We will cooperate with other nations to deny, contain, and curtail our enemies' efforts to acquire dangerous technologies. And, as a matter of common sense and self-defense, America will act against such emerging threats before they are fully formed. We cannot defend America and our friends by hoping for the best. So we must be prepared to defeat our enemies' plans, using the best intelligence and proceeding with deliberation."

That is pretty much exactly what we did.

We can debate all day about Iraq, I did not have a problem with the invasion. It was the ensuing occupation that we botched, and resulted in the situation that followed.

But still I don't think any American President is Hitler.

Agreed.

 

[top gun]

I agree, that ad was in poor taste as well. I can agree that we need the big 501 c4's, I just wish we could see more of them that are less blatantly partisan.

Yeah that would be great except I think both Parties like being able to have a group or groups that can say things they as the RNC or DNC don't want to say on the record.

My idea was that there should be some completely bipartisan board that would screen all 501 TV commercials etc. for accuracy. If the ads were stripped of blatant spin and had to be 100% truthful that would help.

It would be nice to get ride of them altogether and it would also be nice to have all Presidential & Congressional campaigns publicly funded so once elected they could just do their job and not worry about lobbyists and fund raising. But you get into freedom of speech type issues trying to put limits on things like that.

Well, Bush, with Congressional approval, approved enhanced interrogation methods that were in line with the Geneva Conventions.

And the courts have been coming down against that and the detentions without trials ever since. Regardless let's face it politics is about perception and both of these actions draws the analogies to infamous people in history.

Well, in the National Security Strategy of 2002, he did declare that we would follow a preemption strategy. He stated "We will cooperate with other nations to deny, contain, and curtail our enemies' efforts to acquire dangerous technologies. And, as a matter of common sense and self-defense, America will act against such emerging threats before they are fully formed. We cannot defend America and our friends by hoping for the best. So we must be prepared to defeat our enemies' plans, using the best intelligence and proceeding with deliberation."

That is pretty much exactly what we did.

Yep that's what they said. But the evidence they used and the sense of urgency that they put forward to act with a preemptive strategy could not have been more flawed (read that less than honest).

And preemptive war has to have a hugely high standard IMO. Even in the movie Minority Report where they had frickin clairvoyants they screwed it up and tried to arrest Tom Cruise... AND THEY HAD CLAIRVOYANTS!

We can debate all day about Iraq, I did not have a problem with the invasion. It was the ensuing occupation that we botched, and resulted in the situation that followed.

Well we disagree on that. I saw it from the beginning as an over reaction to not being able to catch Bin Laden. When every military assessment available at the time said... We have Hussien is in such a "NO FLY ZONE" box that he can't even put up a crop duster. I'm not going to invade yet on some conflicting often discredited stories.

Agreed.

And we end on agreement... no Hitlers in the Oval Office from either Party.