Should we offer a "Path to Citizenship" to illegal aliens already here?

[top gun]

He agreed to do it if congress agreed to protect the borders and take it seriously. He should have known they were lying to him.

they will say the same thing again, just do it and this time we really will protect the borders but they will be lying again.

Come on. So now your saying President Reagan was stupid and didn't understand exactly the dynamic.??? PLEASE!

This is the funny way that Conservatives like to pass the buck... even when it's THEIR BUCK! You all talk as if a Berlin Wall is the solution and since nobody spent like a gazillion dollars on it over say Social Security or Medicare then it was all just a big trick.




Fact is it's a difficult fix and the only way to do it is come down hard on businesses that hire illegals. And we all know Republicans hate to enforce laws on businesses... and they're also against a National ID Card that would be across the board and not single out just one group for profiling.

 

[top gun]

I'm not missing the point at all. Again they aren't going to be walking around see a person that looks Hispanic, and then walk up to them asking to see the papers. Read the law. As i stated earlier it is a quick read, here is your chance to go further than the Obama or Holder.

No... it's actually you who are missing (or not understanding) the point. I'll break it down for you.

Blonde hair blue eyed Scott Blankenship is not detained & held after he is stopped for some violation until he shows citizenship papers.

Brown skinned Juan Valdez a 5th generation 100% American citizen IS DETAINED & HELD after he is stopped for some violation until he shows citizenship papers.

If you call a tail a leg, how many legs has a dog? Five? No, calling a tail a leg don't make it a leg.
Abraham Lincoln

 

[CoachV40]

No... it's actually you who are missing (or not understanding) the point. I'll break it down for you.

Blonde hair blue eyed Scott Blankenship is not detained & held after he is stopped for some violation until he shows citizenship papers.

Brown skinned Juan Valdez a 5th generation 100% American citizen IS DETAINED & HELD after he is stopped for some violation until he shows citizenship papers.

If you call a tail a leg, how many legs has a dog? Five? No, calling a tail a leg don't make it a leg.
Abraham Lincoln

If he's a citizen it should be a matter of looking up his information. But for every Juan Valdez that has that happen, how many illegals will be detained and hopefully deported. What about the the white or black grandma's that are stopped in airports and checked out, as the middle eastern man strplls on to the gate. I've seen that happen personally. Is it a perfect system NO, but it is certainly better than what was being passed as border security anywhere else in the country.

 

[Little-Acorn]

immigration policy IS Federal Jurisdiction not state.

Absolutely correct. Says so clearly in the Constitution.

However, immigration enforcement can be done by any government: Federal, state, local, or any combination. In fact, you can even do it yourself. If you see someone you think is an illegal alien, you can go to a cop (any cop) and tell him so, and tell him you want to make a Citizen's Arrest. The cop will give you a paper where you swear that out and sign it, and the the cop will take the guy away and process him as a suspected illegal alien.

Of course, if it turns out the guy is NOT an illegal alien, he can and will sue you for everything you own. If you can satisfy a judge (and maybe a jury) that you had good and sufficient reason to believe the guy was an illegal, you MIGHT get off with only a few tens of thousand dollars of legal fees to pay. If not, you might lose it all. You should keep this in mind when making Citizen's Arrests.

That said, city or state police agencies can make arrests just like you can. And if they have legislation to back them up and define what constitutes a legitimate stop, they are in a much safe position than you are. They merely have to prove they acted within the law. If Arizona makes a law saying AZ police can investigate someone AFTER stopping him for some legitimate "other" police function (speeding, domestic violence call etc.) AND they have reasonable cause to suspect he's an illegal, then the cop is safe from lawsuits like the one you just got hit with.

And whaddaya know - Arizona just did exactly that.

Arizona cannot pass any laws that sets any policy different from what the Fed has already set. But AZ was careful not to do that. In fact, the AZ law says that if the above happens and they get a guy who is a possible illegal, the ONLY thing they can do to him, is turn him over to the Feds! Federal policy is thus fulfilled completely, and the Constitution is not violated.

 

[Little-Acorn]

Blonde hair blue eyed Scott Blankenship is not detained & held after he is stopped for some violation until he shows citizenship papers.

Brown skinned Juan Valdez a 5th generation 100% American citizen IS DETAINED & HELD after he is stopped for some violation until he shows citizenship papers.

Time to inject a little reality into this ongoing hysteria.

Blonde haired, blue-eyed Scott Blankenship is not detained and held after he is stopped for 75 in a 55 zone until he shows citizenship papers.

In another part of town, his twin brother Jack Blankenship is stopped for 75 in a 55 zone. The cop asks for his license and registration. Jack looks at him blankly, and replies in French, which the cop only understands a little. The cop gets him out of the car and gets him to admit he has no license and registration. The cop then asks him if he is in the country legally, and Jack clams up and doesn't say another word. The cop calls it in as a suspected illegal alien, and holds Jack there until the Federal ICE agent arrives. ICE takes Jack to the local Fed copshop and lets him make a phone call. Jack calls his brother Scott, who goes home, gets Jack's French passport that's stamped with a current U.S. visa and brings it to the Fed copshop. Feds fine Jack for travelling in the U.S. as a foreign national without carrying his visa on his person, and then release Jack back to the town cops who write him tickets for speeding, driving without a license and registration, and being a stupid idiot. And they impound his car, which his brother Scott has to pay $700 to get out of the Yard.

Dark-skinned Juan Valdez is stopped for 75 in a 55 zone. The local cop asks for his license and registration, but Juan speaks only Spanish. The cop repeates it slowly, with a few words in Spanish, and finally Juan gets the idea and gets out his license and registration, which turn out to be up-to-date and valid. The cop writes him a ticket for 75 in a 55 zone, never asks if he's in the country legally, and lets him go.

If Juan had never produced the license and registration, and/or made it clear he didn't have either document, the cop would have asked him if he was in the country legally. If Juan then clammed up, or even if he said "Si, Senor", the copy would probably call it in as a possible illegal alien, and turned him over to the Fed ICE just like they did to Jack B. What happens then, depends on what documents Juan is able to produce.

All of the above scenarios are completely legal, and all of them will probably happen in Arizona and the other states with laws similar to Arizona's (which is most of them. There's nothing new or unusual about Arizona's law).

Bottom line: Don't drive around without your license and registration, and don't slug your wife where a cop (or neighbor) can hear. True whether you're an illegal or not. BTW, this country has a severe problem with a massive invasion of illegal aliens, and is passing extra legislation to deal with it. If you don't speak English and have a habit of speeding and/or hitting your wife, carry some ID, just in case. If you DON'T have a habit of speeding or wife-beating, then you'll probably never need the ID. True if you're a blonde/blue Frenchman or a dark-skinned Hispanic.

Any other questions?

 

[Gipper]

Hey its pretty simple.

The BO administration and Dems want the illegals made legal so that they get 20M new Dem voters in November.

Its just that simple.

I hope the Dems push this before November. Because if they do, they will lose bigger than anyone ever expected.

 

[CoachV40]

Time to inject a little reality into this ongoing hysteria.

Blonde haired, blue-eyed Scott Blankenship is not detained and held after he is stopped for 75 in a 55 zone until he shows citizenship papers.

In another part of town, his twin brother Jack Blankenship is stopped for 75 in a 55 zone. The cop asks for his license and registration. Jack looks at him blankly, and replies in French, which the cop only understands a little. The cop gets him out of the car and gets him to admit he has no license and registration. The cop then asks him if he is in the country legally, and Jack clams up and doesn't say another word. The cop calls it in as a suspected illegal alien, and holds Jack there until the Federal ICE agent arrives. ICE takes Jack to the local Fed copshop and lets him make a phone call. Jack calls his brother Scott, who goes home, gets Jack's French passport that's stamped with a current U.S. visa and brings it to the Fed copshop. Feds fine Jack for travelling in the U.S. as a foreign national without carrying his visa on his person, and then release Jack back to the town cops who write him tickets for speeding, driving without a license and registration, and being a stupid idiot. And they impound his car, which his brother Scott has to pay $700 to get out of the Yard.

Dark-skinned Juan Valdez is stopped for 75 in a 55 zone. The local cop asks for his license and registration, but Juan speaks only Spanish. The cop repeates it slowly, with a few words in Spanish, and finally Juan gets the idea and gets out his license and registration, which turn out to be up-to-date and valid. The cop writes him a ticket for 75 in a 55 zone, never asks if he's in the country legally, and lets him go.

If Juan had never produced the license and registration, and/or made it clear he didn't have either document, the cop would have asked him if he was in the country legally. If Juan then clammed up, or even if he said "Si, Senor", the copy would probably call it in as a possible illegal alien, and turned him over to the Fed ICE just like they did to Jack B. What happens then, depends on what documents Juan is able to produce.

All of the above scenarios are completely legal, and all of them will probably happen in Arizona and the other states with laws similar to Arizona's (which is most of them. There's nothing new or unusual about Arizona's law).

Bottom line: Don't drive around without your license and registration, and don't slug your wife where a cop (or neighbor) can hear. True whether you're an illegal or not. BTW, this country has a severe problem with a massive invasion of illegal aliens, and is passing extra legislation to deal with it. If you don't speak English and have a habit of speeding and/or hitting your wife, carry some ID, just in case. If you DON'T have a habit of speeding or wife-beating, then you'll probably never need the ID. True if you're a blonde/blue Frenchman or a dark-skinned Hispanic.

Any other questions?

Well said Little Acorn!

 

[PLC1]

Hey its pretty simple.

The BO administration and Dems want the illegals made legal so that they get 20M new Dem voters in November.

Its just that simple.

I hope the Dems push this before November. Because if they do, they will lose bigger than anyone ever expected.

Why is it, then, that the Republicans don't want to do anything about illegal immigration either?

I think both parties want to look the other way for the same reason: Their financial supporters like the cheap labor.

How else can you explain no action for the past 50 years?

 

[Pandora]

Come on. So now your saying President Reagan was stupid and didn't understand exactly the dynamic.??? PLEASE!

Well it was stupid of him to think he could trust congress to keep their word.
Its not passing the buck, its just saying what happened and didnt happen.

I dont think he ever should have done it and not just because congress can not be trusted to keep their word but because we should not reward people with something as grand as being an American when they lied cheated and stole to get as far as they have.

Send them back and make them get in line behind the honest people doing it legally. THough I think we should speed up those who are waiting legally to get in.

 

[PLC1]

Well it was stupid of him to think he could trust congress to keep their word.
Its not passing the buck, its just saying what happened and didnt happen.

I dont think he ever should have done it and not just because congress can not be trusted to keep their word but because we should not reward people with something as grand as being an American when they lied cheated and stole to get as far as they have.

Send them back and make them get in line behind the honest people doing it legally. THough I think we should speed up those who are waiting legally to get in.

Exactly right on target.

Unfortunately, what should happen and what will happen are two different things.

 

[top gun]

If he's a citizen it should be a matter of looking up his information. But for every Juan Valdez that has that happen, how many illegals will be detained and hopefully deported. What about the the white or black grandma's that are stopped in airports and checked out, as the middle eastern man strplls on to the gate. I've seen that happen personally. Is it a perfect system NO, but it is certainly better than what was being passed as border security anywhere else in the country.

Like I said it's obvious why it's not fair.

One can however rationalize it if they choose to. It's called the end justifies the mean mentality. You are welcome to embrace it if you like. I personally can't. There will be profiling and there will be many Latino Americans inconvenienced and hassled just because they are Latino. I'm against that.

If there's any good news here it's that this will completely polarize the fastest growing American voting block and set them firmly as fully Democrat.

 

[CoachV40]

Like I said it's obvious why it's not fair.

One can however rationalize it if they choose to. It's called the end justifies the mean mentality. You are welcome to embrace it if you like. I personally can't. There will be profiling and there will be many Latino Americans inconvenienced and hassled just because they are Latino. I'm against that.

If there's any good news here it's that this will completely polarize the fastest growing American voting block and set them firmly as fully Democrat.

They will only be inconvenienced if they are breaking a law that will get them pulled over. At that point it is as simple as showing the proper identification, and going on about your business. Is it perfect and flawless....no probably not, however we don't live in a perfect world.

 

[PLC1]

They will only be inconvenienced if they are breaking a law that will get them pulled over. At that point it is as simple as showing the proper identification, and going on about your business. Is it perfect and flawless....no probably not, however we don't live in a perfect world.

Doesn't everyone have to show ID in the form of a license whenever they are pulled over for allegedly breaking a traffic law, whether they look Hispanic or not?

How is that discriminatory?

Maybe a birth certificate or other similar ID should be required for any public service, like enrolling kids in public school, for example, or applying for food stamps and the like. If it applied to everyone, it wouldn't be discriminatory, would it?

 

[CoachV40]

Doesn't everyone have to show ID in the form of a license whenever they are pulled over for allegedly breaking a traffic law, whether they look Hispanic or not?

How is that discriminatory?

Maybe a birth certificate or other similar ID should be required for any public service, like enrolling kids in public school, for example, or applying for food stamps and the like. If it applied to everyone, it wouldn't be discriminatory, would it?

Absolutely they have to show i.d. anyway. It isn't discriminatory and that has been my point the whole time. Yes, I would certainly support having to show that you are a legal citizen for enrollment in public schools and social programs. I know there will be someone that says these things are already required in many cases, but how about some enforcement. I know a couple people that work in offices that do sign ups for social programs. They have seen illegals come in with a set of kids sign up for programs, then later that day different illegal adult comes in with same kids using the same address. Lets not even get started on the over crowding of the public schools!

 

[Pandora]

Doesn't everyone have to show ID in the form of a license whenever they are pulled over for allegedly breaking a traffic law, whether they look Hispanic or not?

How is that discriminatory?

Maybe a birth certificate or other similar ID should be required for any public service, like enrolling kids in public school, for example, or applying for food stamps and the like. If it applied to everyone, it wouldn't be discriminatory, would it?

When my son was a baby he had to have a surgery that I could not afford. The state of oregon paid for his surgery but to get that help I had to show his birth certificate and SSN# to get the help.

When he went to get his learners permit to drive I had to show same documents. At the counter next to me a man who did not speak any english got a drivers license without showing any ID. He had a letter proving his address and that was it.

The rules are different but I have no idea why.

and every time I have been stopped by a police man the first thing they ask for is my drivers lic. and proof of insurance.

To get my "government" job I had to show a SS card and ID Drivers lic. as well as getting finger printed. We have illegals who work for the same place I do and I dont know how they got away without showing ID but they did.