Should toturing be allowed?

[palerider]

Our country's policies contriubte to those deaths--do you vote?

Which policy keeps them from having clean water and food to eat. We export more free food to 3rd world countries than any two other nations.

I am suggesting that you are a hypocrite for demanding a right for yourself that you would deny to others, that you are demanding that others solve a problem that YOU are unhappy about, and you top off that hypocrisy by not voluteering to do one of the most important jobs there is for anyone who wants to end abortions: adopt a child so that it doesn't get aborted. But you don't want to do that, instead you want to pass laws and force other people to do what you don't want to do. Nice attitude, but very ordinary--common even.

Suggest whatever you like but by definition, my position is not hypocritical. I am demanding that unborns in this country be given the 14th amendment protection that all of us get. That is not just "a problem" that I am unhappy about. It is the most gross violation of human rights that this country has ever known.

Tell me mare, do you suggest that we step up and forgive all killers and turn them loose after they have done the deed? Or just women who kill their children?

Sovereignty over one's own body. Is that too complex an concept for you? Read my post to Armchair.

If the child were an invader, you would have a point. The child, however, where it is through no fault of its own. It has been placed in a position of dependence. Tell me, do you think it would be ok for me to place you in a position in which you depended upon me for your very life and then withdraw that support because I no longer felt like providing it?

 

[palerider]

So the baby of rape has a right to live as a parasite on an unwilling host. You also neglected to address my analogy of your cancer.

More misunderstandinig of biology. Should I list a half a dozen specific and scientifically accurate reasons that an unborn is not a parasite for you?

And exactly what crime has a child of rape comitted that its life should be forfiet. There is a criminal in the situation and it is he who should be the focus of your vengance, not the child.

Cojoined twins are equals, one is not necessarily a parasite on the other, but in a number of cases, the one that was least viable was sacrificed to save the life of the other.

This only happens in cases where they share an organ and the organ is not strong enough to support both and both will die if they are not separated. The one who has the organ has the right to defend his or her life and if they are very young and incapable of making the decision, the concerned adults have the responsibility to defend his life for him.

Right here you jumped from a parasite inside a person's body to a fully realized human being able to live without its biological Mother.

Are you arguing that dependence is a valid reason to kill?

When you are raped and then required to carry the baby of that assault for 9 months in your body and then go through the pain of birth and care for that child until it can be adopted, then you can talk to me about ownership, until then you are a virgin lecturing on sex.

In what other situations do you believe it is appropriate to kill those who bring back bad or tragic memories or remind us of terrible events in our lives?

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Pale,
You should read Dr. Who's posts, I don't agree with him as much as I do with you on some aspects, but he can carry on a conversation and you cannot. See my post (#258) on the abortion thread in reference to any further response to you by me. I'm sorry that you are so frightened and angry, it's got to be a terrible way to live, but since you can't participate in a real discussion I'm going to let you go. You do have one of the most interesting mixes of hatred, compassion, sadism, fear, logic, illogic, and repressed religious misogyny that I have ever seen. I hope you can sort it out.

 

[palerider]

... You do have one of the most interesting mixes of hatred, compassion, sadism, fear, logic, illogic, and repressed religious misogyny that I have ever seen. I hope you can sort it out.

My but you do fabricate the reasons for running away from a discussion don't you. And even this hodgepodge amounts to no more than a personal attack on me and does nothing to support your very conflicted position.

 

[DrWho]

So the baby of rape has a right to live as a parasite on an unwilling host. You also neglected to address my analogy of your cancer.


But you neglected to say when that happens. Conception?

I have lost track of where you made you analogy of cancer.

But usually I do not address every point a person makes, either because it is obviously true or obviously false. I am hoping to only continue conversations where we can grow and discussing things that are obvious helps no one to grow.

Unfortunately, it has become clear that our conversation will not either. I find your logic to be kinda mixed up and really riddled with absurd notions like 'a baby is a parasite' and somehow throwing misogyny in to the pile. Actually I suspect that the misogyny you see is a result of your apparent misandrogeny.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

I have lost track of where you made you analogy of cancer.

But usually I do not address every point a person makes, either because it is obviously true or obviously false. I am hoping to only continue conversations where we can grow and discussing things that are obvious helps no one to grow.

Unfortunately, it has become clear that our conversation will not either. I find your logic to be kinda mixed up and really riddled with absurd notions like 'a baby is a parasite' and somehow throwing misogyny in to the pile. Actually I suspect that the misogyny you see is a result of your apparent misandrogeny.

If you were raped, would you feel violated? You couldn't get pregnant of course, but you would feel violated wouldn't you? How would it feel to have it happen over and over again for 9 months? I don't know of any other way to bring home to you the feeling of being raped and then being forced to allow the rapists baby to grow inside of your body and tear your life apart with an unwanted pregnancy. You are a Christian? Have you no compassion for the woman? The baby will feel like a parasite, just like you having a cancer growing in your body.

We are trying to bridge a gulf between women and men that has existed since time began. Misogyny comes into this when I find that you are a Christian because it is a patriarchal religion that has traditionally had little respect for women. If a woman can be considered one of the spoils of war, raped, and then turned out, what would you call that? That's Scripture.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

My but you do fabricate the reasons for running away from a discussion don't you. And even this hodgepodge amounts to no more than a personal attack on me and does nothing to support your very conflicted position.

Pale,
You should read Dr. Who's posts, I don't agree with him as much as I do with you on some aspects, but he can carry on a conversation and you cannot. See my post (#258) on the abortion thread in reference to any further response to you by me. I'm sorry that you are so frightened and angry, it's got to be a terrible way to live, but since you can't participate in a real discussion I'm going to let you go. You do have one of the most interesting mixes of hatred, compassion, sadism, fear, logic, illogic, and repressed religious misogyny that I have ever seen. I hope you can sort it out.

 

[palerider]

If you were raped, would you feel violated? You couldn't get pregnant of course, but you would feel violated wouldn't you? How would it feel to have it happen over and over again for 9 months? I don't know of any other way to bring home to you the feeling of being raped and then being forced to allow the rapists baby to grow inside of your body and tear your life apart with an unwanted pregnancy. You are a Christian? Have you no compassion for the woman? The baby will feel like a parasite, just like you having a cancer growing in your body.

I have asked this before but you dodged so I will ask again. Under what other circumstances do you believe it is acceptable to kill another human being who reminds you of a tragic event, or dredges up unpleasant memories? Do you believe we should be able to kill anyone who reminds us of unpleasantness in our past, or just unborn children?

 

[palerider]

Pale,
You should read Dr. Who's posts, I don't agree with him as much as I do with you on some aspects, but he can carry on a conversation and you cannot. See my post (#258) on the abortion thread in reference to any further response to you by me. I'm sorry that you are so frightened and angry, it's got to be a terrible way to live, but since you can't participate in a real discussion I'm going to let you go. You do have one of the most interesting mixes of hatred, compassion, sadism, fear, logic, illogic, and repressed religious misogyny that I have ever seen. I hope you can sort it out.

Sad mare. Sad and tragic that you resort to this in lieu of discussion.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Sad mare. Sad and tragic that you resort to this in lieu of discussion.

Sorry, Pale, but there is no discussing with you. You don't answer questions and there can be no discussion without a give and take.

I went back and looked at all the times you called me a liar and all the other bad things you called me and said about me, so I find that I have to ask rhetorically (because I know you won't answer questions) : Why would you want to continue with this "discussion"?

You told me that you have a wonderful life full of friends, family, happiness, love, and fulfillment--Why are you interested in conversing with a person who is all those nasty things you have called me? Did you lie? Are you really a sick and twisted, miserable soul living in a damp, dank basement with rats scuttling around, vampiring your internet wirelessly off the people in the nice apartments upstairs, typing away in a frenzy of rage and impotence because of your low-station in life? Whatever you are, I don't need to talk to you anymore, thanks.

 

[palerider]

Sorry, Pale, but there is no discussing with you. You don't answer questions and there can be no discussion without a give and take.

I answer any and all questions that are germain to the issue. I won't, however, support your attempt to make killiing acceptable contingent on other's willingness to care for those who are being killed. Unless of course you wish to admit that you believe that is the case and will explain the rational behind that belief.

I went back and looked at all the times you called me a liar and all the other bad things you called me and said about me, so I find that I have to ask rhetorically (because I know you won't answer questions) : Why would you want to continue with this "discussion"?

What bad things did I call you mare? In fact, I don't believe I actually called you a liar. I pointed out lies, but I don't think I called you a liar. I do welcome you to bring forward any bad things I have called you and will gladly apologize for them if they are not true.

I am interested in the discussion and interested in what lies behind your convoluted and conflicted philosophy mare. You entered the conversation, said a lot of things you can't explain, and when I didn't give you a pass on them, you dropped any pretense of discussion of the topic and instead began a string of quite vile personal attacks on me. That is interesting. Very interesting indeed.

You told me that you have a wonderful life full of friends, family, happiness, love, and fulfillment--Why are you interested in conversing with a person who is all those nasty things you have called me? Did you lie? Are you really a sick and twisted, miserable soul living in a damp, dank basement with rats scuttling around, vampiring your internet wirelessly off the people in the nice apartments upstairs, typing away in a frenzy of rage and impotence because of your low-station in life? Whatever you are, I don't need to talk to you anymore, thanks.

Actually mare, I said that I have had a "very pleasant life" and said nothing about my family, love, or fulfillment (although I have been married to a wonderful woman for nearly 40 years). Why do you find it necessary to be dishonest about even the most basic things? Surely you were able to read and understand the words that I wrote, they said what I ment to say. Why did you find it necessary to reinterpret them into something other than what I said? You do that a lot and my bet is that all the "nasty" things you believe I have called you are no more than your own interpretation of not so nasty things that I have actually said. And that is very interesting as well.

I have asked you before mare to bring forward any "nasty" things I have called you and you have yet to bring forward anything at all. You keep making the claim but don't offer any evidence at all. Didn't you chide Chip for exactly the same thing? More hypocricy.

 

[Rokerijdude11]

Sorry, Pale, but there is no discussing with you. You don't answer questions and there can be no discussion without a give and take.

I went back and looked at all the times you called me a liar and all the other bad things you called me and said about me, so I find that I have to ask rhetorically (because I know you won't answer questions) : Why would you want to continue with this "discussion"?

You told me that you have a wonderful life full of friends, family, happiness, love, and fulfillment--Why are you interested in conversing with a person who is all those nasty things you have called me? Did you lie? Are you really a sick and twisted, miserable soul living in a damp, dank basement with rats scuttling around, vampiring your internet wirelessly off the people in the nice apartments upstairs, typing away in a frenzy of rage and impotence because of your low-station in life? Whatever you are, I don't need to talk to you anymore, thanks.

And yet another comes to the realization of the futility of discussing anything whith palerider

 

[palerider]

And yet another comes to the realization of the futility of discussing anything whith palerider

At least she has the balls to debate me head on and doesn't follow me around the board like some deranged little puppy nipping at my shoelaces.

I challenged her to bring forward posts where I called her a liar, and posts where I called her other "bad things". She hasn't, because to the best of my knowledge, I never called her a liar, or any other "bad thing". In fact, all of the terrible things that she claims that I have said to her only exist in her own imagination. I did catch her in lies just like I caught you in lies, but I don't believe I ever actually called you a liar either.

Tell me. Did you verify whether or not she was speakinig honestly or do you just support her because she is attacking me?

I am sure that you can appreciate her tendency to switch to name calling and personal attacks in lieu of actual argument though. Kindred spirits and all. She switched to personal attacks instead of debate because her position was conflicted and hypocritical. You have become a mewling thing that follows me around the board nipping at my shoelaces rather than a man who debates issues head on.

For all the faults with her philosophy, I doubt that mare will sink as low as you by following me around the board trying vainly to score some sort of point against me by commenting to yourself or whoever will listen about me. Get yourself some self respect and confront me head on if you have something to say.

 

[USMC the Almighty]

At least she has the balls to debate me head on and doesn't follow me around the board like some deranged little puppy nipping at my shoelaces.

I challenged her to bring forward posts where I called her a liar, and posts where I called her other "bad things". She hasn't, because to the best of my knowledge, I never called her a liar, or any other "bad thing". In fact, all of the terrible things that she claims that I have said to her only exist in her own imagination. I did catch her in lies just like I caught you in lies, but I don't believe I ever actually called you a liar either.

Tell me. Did you verify whether or not she was speakinig honestly or do you just support her because she is attacking me?

I am sure that you can appreciate her tendency to switch to name calling and personal attacks in lieu of actual argument though. Kindred spirits and all. She switched to personal attacks instead of debate because her position was conflicted and hypocritical. You have become a mewling thing that follows me around the board nipping at my shoelaces rather than a man who debates issues head on.

For all the faults with her philosophy, I doubt that mare will sink as low as you by following me around the board trying vainly to score some sort of point against me by commenting to yourself or whoever will listen about me. Get yourself some self respect and confront me head on if you have something to say.

That's very well put and an accurate description.

 

[Rokerijdude11]

At least she has the balls to debate me head on and doesn't follow me around the board like some deranged little puppy nipping at my shoelaces.

I challenged her to bring forward posts where I called her a liar, and posts where I called her other "bad things". She hasn't, because to the best of my knowledge, I never called her a liar, or any other "bad thing". In fact, all of the terrible things that she claims that I have said to her only exist in her own imagination. I did catch her in lies just like I caught you in lies, but I don't believe I ever actually called you a liar either.

Tell me. Did you verify whether or not she was speakinig honestly or do you just support her because she is attacking me?

I am sure that you can appreciate her tendency to switch to name calling and personal attacks in lieu of actual argument though. Kindred spirits and all. She switched to personal attacks instead of debate because her position was conflicted and hypocritical. You have become a mewling thing that follows me around the board nipping at my shoelaces rather than a man who debates issues head on.

For all the faults with her philosophy, I doubt that mare will sink as low as you by following me around the board trying vainly to score some sort of point against me by commenting to yourself or whoever will listen about me. Get yourself some self respect and confront me head on if you have something to say.

I am done with circle talking palerider find another mark pal
dont flatter yourself pal you mean nothing to me .i find it amusing that others are reaching theyre break point with you and your circle talking