Should there be a law against public institutions that lie for money?

[jbbarn]

I have to disagree with you a little bit, there. I think he added more than anyone else. "poor people suck" isn't a valid argument at all. It could possibly even be described as judgmental and nasty. "Christians should practice what they preach" is a way more valid argument. Especially since those same Christians want their religion to dictate everybody else's lives. Out of all the debates I have had with die hard Christians about how they justify breaking Jesus' biggest rule (the one about helping the needy), the most common argument was: .

Another favorite of Jesus is "judge not lest ye be judged. That means he doesn't want people judging poor people just because they ASSUME they know anything about anyone else'e situation and life. If I'm not mistaken the only judgment God is okay with is when he does the judging himself.

At what point did I ever say, or imply, that "poor people suck?" I don't think I would have considered such a phrase to be a valid debate point, even if I felt that way, which I certainly do NOT! I am just not going to waste my time on people who put words on paper for me, because they are so deceived, or naive, or something, that reality holds no attraction for them. The reason we have so many people in America on welfare is because the Gov't. has played Nanny for 40+ years! I have known a LOT of people who bragged about not having to work! I had a disabled brother whom I cared for until he died, so I don't need any lectures or crap about how I think mentally deficient, or otherwise disabled people should be forced to work! If any liberal has a brain cell left, he or she will realize that is not what we're talking about here!

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

I'm pretty sure there are laws against such things. Isn't fraud illegal? So, if you're seeing fraud occurring perhaps you should report it.

I'm not quite sure how religions are being grouped with charities that don't use the money as stated. Have you some proof of churches collecting money with specific intent and then not fulfilling those obligations?

I see someone has given you an example so will speak to the lying that religions do as a mater of course.

Do you think they should have a responsibility to tell the truth to their gullible sheeple?

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

The fraud is illegal. But there are loop holes. The FOP (Fraternal Order of Police), aren't actually associated with your local police. And less than 10 cents per dollar went to their charity. They're non profit so people assume a lot more of the money goes to the charity. the people I knew who worked for them said so much goes to the the caller who gets the person to agree to the donation, the guy who will drive to the donator's house and pick it up, and the office manager. 15 years ago, the charity got less than 10% of the money.


All completely legal because of loopholes

A drop in the bucket.


The crooks ain't just confined to religions. Here are a few more crooks:

Rank Charity name... Total raised by solicitors ...Paid to solicitors ... % spent on direct cash aid

1 Kids Wish Network 137.9million 115.9 million 2.5%

2 Cancer Fund of America 86.8million 75.4 million 1.0%

3 Children's Wish Foundation International 92.7million 61.2 million 10.6%

4 Firefighters Charitable Foundation 62.8million 53.8 million 7.4%

5 International Union of Police Associations, AFL-CIO 66.6million 50.4 million 0.5%

6 Breast Cancer Relief Foundation 63.9million 44.8 million 2.2%

7 American Association of State Troopers 48.1million 38.6 million 8.9%

8 National Veterans Service Fund 70.2million 36.9 million 7.8%

9 Children's Cancer Fund of America 43.7million 34.4 million 4.6%

10 Children's Cancer Recovery Foundation 38.5million 28.9 million 0.7%

11 Project Cure (Bradenton, FL) 53.8million 25.5 million 0.0%

12 Committee For Missing Children 26.6million 23.5 million 0.8%

13 Youth Development Fund 27.5million 22.6 million 1.0%

14 Association for Firefighters and Paramedics 24.0million 21.4 million 3.1%

15 Woman To Woman Breast Cancer Foundation 19.4million 18.2 million 0.3%

16 United States Deputy Sheriffs' Association 25.6million 17.9 million 0.8%

17 National Caregiving Foundation 21.0million 17.4 million 3.2%

18 Vietnow National Headquarters 19.1million 16.7 million 2.8%

19 National Cancer Coalition 42.1million 16.4 million 1.3%

20 Operation Lookout National Center for Missing Youth 18.2million 14.7 million 0.0%

21 American Foundation For Disabled Children 15.8million 13.4 million 0.6%

22 Heart Support of America 31.4million 12.9 million 3.1%

23 Police Protective Fund 37.7million 12.2 million 0.7%

24 Veterans Assistance Foundation 12.4million 11.1 million 10.4%

25 Children's Charity Fund 14.0million 10.3 million 2.4%

26 The Veterans Fund 12.6million 10.2 million 2.5%

27 Wishing Well Foundation USA 12.6million 10.1 million 4.3%

28 Disabled Police Officers of America Inc. 11.4million 9.5 million 2.3%

29 Disabled Police and Sheriffs Foundation 10.4million 8.9 million 1.0%

30 National Police Defense Foundation 10.6million 8.4 million 5.1%

31 Defeat Diabetes Foundation 12.7million 7.8 million 0.0%

32 American Association of the Deaf & Blind 10.3million 7.8 million 0.1%

33 Optimal Medical Foundation 7.8million 7.6 million 1.0%

34 Circle of Friends For American Veterans 9.3million 7.2 million 4.4%

35 United Breast Cancer Foundation 12.7million 7.2 million 6.3%

36 Reserve Police Officers Association 7.8million 6.9 million 1.2%

37 Children's Leukemia Research Association 9.8million 6.8 million 11.1%

38 Disabled Police Officers Counseling Center 7.6million 6.4 million 0.1%

39 Shiloh International Ministries 7.7million 6.0 million 1.1%

40 Find the Children 7.4million 4.8 million 4.6%

41 Survivors and Victims Empowered 7.7million 4.8 million 0.0%

42 Firefighters Assistance Fund 5.7million 4.7 million 3.1%

43 Caring for Our Children Foundation 5.1million 4.4 million 1.6%

44 National Narcotic Officers Associations Coalition 5.0million 4.2 million 0.0%

45 Our American Veterans 2.6million 2.3 million 2.3%

46 Roger Wyburn-Mason & Jack M Blount Foundation For Eradication of Rheumatoid Disease 9.0million 1.9 million 0.0%

47 Hope Cancer Fund 2.1million 1.7 million 0.5%

48 Firefighters Burn Fund 2.0million 1.7 million 1.5%


Crooks all, and there ain't nothing illegal about it.

Regards
DL

 

[jbbarn]

I've never even heard of any of these "charities!" I don't know what any of them have to do with Christianity, but I will say that if people go around donating to every Tom, Dick and Harry that asks for money, "for someone else," they may as well kiss their money goodbye, and quit whining about it! At least it's voluntary, unlike the excessive taxation by the government!

 

[Zynni]

The most famous case was Jim Baker from PTL ministries, in the Charlotte area. He actually got 40 years for it. I don't know if his sentence was commuted or not

Then, clearly, there are already laws in place to deal with provable fraud.

good luck finding a court willing to say Christianity or some major religion is a Fraud and order it to pay and not get appealed and overturned though. I mean Scientology can't even get sued and its such pure scam.

Believing in something is not fraud. Asking for money for a specific purpose and then not using it for that purpose... is.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

At what point did I ever say, or imply, that "poor people suck?" I don't think I would have considered such a phrase to be a valid debate point, even if I felt that way, which I certainly do NOT! I am just not going to waste my time on people who put words on paper for me, because they are so deceived, or naive, or something, that reality holds no attraction for them. The reason we have so many people in America on welfare is because the Gov't. has played Nanny for 40+ years! I have known a LOT of people who bragged about not having to work! I had a disabled brother whom I cared for until he died, so I don't need any lectures or crap about how I think mentally deficient, or otherwise disabled people should be forced to work! If any liberal has a brain cell left, he or she will realize that is not what we're talking about here!

it seems you do. your just blind to it. Keep judging

 

[LilAnn]

At what point did I ever say, or imply, that "poor people suck?" I don't think I would have considered such a phrase to be a valid debate point, even if I felt that way, which I certainly do NOT! I am just not going to waste my time on people who put words on paper for me, because they are so deceived, or naive, or something, that reality holds no attraction for them. The reason we have so many people in America on welfare is because the Gov't. has played Nanny for 40+ years! I have known a LOT of people who bragged about not having to work! I had a disabled brother whom I cared for until he died, so I don't need any lectures or crap about how I think mentally deficient, or otherwise disabled people should be forced to work! If any liberal has a brain cell left, he or she will realize that is not what we're talking about here!

I wasn't putting words in your mouth. I was paraphrasing.


I'm poor. I've been on food stamps in the past. My husband and I aren't unwilling to work. But when he gets laid off for the winter because the contract wasn't renewed until May, you still have to be able to feed your family.

Being poor bums, obviously we know all the other poor bums, and I can honestly say that between using our food stamps to buy fancy cars and huge houses, and using our state provided health insurance just to go in and make the people, who are worthy of medical services, have to wait even longer... not one poor bum has ever bragged to me about how lucky they are to not be able to find a job. When Fisher Price/Mattel closed their factory down with no notice, the hundreds of people who were unemployed over night never once, in my presence, threw their arms in the air and screamed, "thank you god! welfare here I come".

 

[LilAnn]

Then, clearly, there are already laws in place to deal with provable fraud.



Believing in something is not fraud. Asking for money for a specific purpose and then not using it for that purpose... is.

That is why I used the term "loopholes". I don't know how to be any clearer than that.

 

[LilAnn]

A drop in the bucket.


The crooks ain't just confined to religions. Here are a few more crooks:

Rank Charity name... Total raised by solicitors ...Paid to solicitors ... % spent on direct cash aid

1 Kids Wish Network 137.9million 115.9 million 2.5%

2 Cancer Fund of America 86.8million 75.4 million 1.0%

3 Children's Wish Foundation International 92.7million 61.2 million 10.6%

4 Firefighters Charitable Foundation 62.8million 53.8 million 7.4%

5 International Union of Police Associations, AFL-CIO 66.6million 50.4 million 0.5%

6 Breast Cancer Relief Foundation 63.9million 44.8 million 2.2%

7 American Association of State Troopers 48.1million 38.6 million 8.9%

8 National Veterans Service Fund 70.2million 36.9 million 7.8%

9 Children's Cancer Fund of America 43.7million 34.4 million 4.6%

10 Children's Cancer Recovery Foundation 38.5million 28.9 million 0.7%

11 Project Cure (Bradenton, FL) 53.8million 25.5 million 0.0%

12 Committee For Missing Children 26.6million 23.5 million 0.8%

13 Youth Development Fund 27.5million 22.6 million 1.0%

14 Association for Firefighters and Paramedics 24.0million 21.4 million 3.1%

15 Woman To Woman Breast Cancer Foundation 19.4million 18.2 million 0.3%

16 United States Deputy Sheriffs' Association 25.6million 17.9 million 0.8%

17 National Caregiving Foundation 21.0million 17.4 million 3.2%

18 Vietnow National Headquarters 19.1million 16.7 million 2.8%

19 National Cancer Coalition 42.1million 16.4 million 1.3%

20 Operation Lookout National Center for Missing Youth 18.2million 14.7 million 0.0%

21 American Foundation For Disabled Children 15.8million 13.4 million 0.6%

22 Heart Support of America 31.4million 12.9 million 3.1%

23 Police Protective Fund 37.7million 12.2 million 0.7%

24 Veterans Assistance Foundation 12.4million 11.1 million 10.4%

25 Children's Charity Fund 14.0million 10.3 million 2.4%

26 The Veterans Fund 12.6million 10.2 million 2.5%

27 Wishing Well Foundation USA 12.6million 10.1 million 4.3%

28 Disabled Police Officers of America Inc. 11.4million 9.5 million 2.3%

29 Disabled Police and Sheriffs Foundation 10.4million 8.9 million 1.0%

30 National Police Defense Foundation 10.6million 8.4 million 5.1%

31 Defeat Diabetes Foundation 12.7million 7.8 million 0.0%

32 American Association of the Deaf & Blind 10.3million 7.8 million 0.1%

33 Optimal Medical Foundation 7.8million 7.6 million 1.0%

34 Circle of Friends For American Veterans 9.3million 7.2 million 4.4%

35 United Breast Cancer Foundation 12.7million 7.2 million 6.3%

36 Reserve Police Officers Association 7.8million 6.9 million 1.2%

37 Children's Leukemia Research Association 9.8million 6.8 million 11.1%

38 Disabled Police Officers Counseling Center 7.6million 6.4 million 0.1%

39 Shiloh International Ministries 7.7million 6.0 million 1.1%

40 Find the Children 7.4million 4.8 million 4.6%

41 Survivors and Victims Empowered 7.7million 4.8 million 0.0%

42 Firefighters Assistance Fund 5.7million 4.7 million 3.1%

43 Caring for Our Children Foundation 5.1million 4.4 million 1.6%

44 National Narcotic Officers Associations Coalition 5.0million 4.2 million 0.0%

45 Our American Veterans 2.6million 2.3 million 2.3%

46 Roger Wyburn-Mason & Jack M Blount Foundation For Eradication of Rheumatoid Disease 9.0million 1.9 million 0.0%

47 Hope Cancer Fund 2.1million 1.7 million 0.5%

48 Firefighters Burn Fund 2.0million 1.7 million 1.5%


Crooks all, and there ain't nothing illegal about it.

Regards
DL

I think you should know, Bishop, after reading your post I think I may be developing a little bit of a crush on you. I really love a good list.

#46... impressive... lol

 

[Charles Franklin]

I get the point behind the question, but would challenge your definition of "lie for money" because lying can be a very broad issue (if you really think about it!) Let me provide an example:

Suppose an educational institution charges $500 per credit hour for a degree that turns out to be worthless. Would the institution be wrong for advertising that they offer training that can lead to a successful career? What if they imply, but don't actually say it?

 

[jbbarn]

No. That's not a lie. The sky CAN fall tomorrow. That doesn't mean it WILL. If the institution states that your $500.00 course WILL lead to a successful career, then they're probably lying, and you should be suspicious upfront.

 

[Charles Franklin]

No. That's not a lie. The sky CAN fall tomorrow. That doesn't mean it WILL. If the institution states that your $500.00 course WILL lead to a successful career, then they're probably lying, and you should be suspicious upfront.

I definitely get your point. It's one of the reasons that for-profit schools like University of Phoenix are facing more scrutiny. It isn't that you can't learn anything from these schools. It's that the cost may be too high compared to the return.

One of the problems, though, is that paying for college is not a straightforward issue. If you are a college student who gets financial aid, you might argue about cost but you pay it. The school knows this and charges fees accordingly.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

I wasn't putting words in your mouth. I was paraphrasing.


I'm poor. I've been on food stamps in the past. My husband and I aren't unwilling to work. But when he gets laid off for the winter because the contract wasn't renewed until May, you still have to be able to feed your family.

Being poor bums, obviously we know all the other poor bums, and I can honestly say that between using our food stamps to buy fancy cars and huge houses, and using our state provided health insurance just to go in and make the people, who are worthy of medical services, have to wait even longer... not one poor bum has ever bragged to me about how lucky they are to not be able to find a job. When Fisher Price/Mattel closed their factory down with no notice, the hundreds of people who were unemployed over night never once, in my presence, threw their arms in the air and screamed, "thank you god! welfare here I come".

so when can we all come over for the Prime Rib, Crab legs and Caviar food stamp dinner I hear about?

 

[pocketfullofshells]

I think you should know, Bishop, after reading your post I think I may be developing a little bit of a crush on you. I really love a good list.

#46... impressive... lol

gets the hose out....

 

[LilAnn]

so when can we all come over for the Prime Rib, Crab legs and Caviar food stamp dinner I hear about?

you know it!! And that's just for starters
just name the day and time. I keep my freezer stocked