Scores dead as Israel attacks Gaza

[numinus]

israel controls the shore of gaza and prevent every shipment to inter gaza from water,, except that one time when a group of europian peace activist tried to break the sige on gaza. gaza is not an independant country, we never had our full control over our borders. and whenever israel want to close it it does! and cut the food and oil on the 1.5 million palestinian in the gaza strip. when people have nothing to go, nothing to do, while they watch there kids dying of hunger, what do you expect them to do?

And by land and air via egypt? Does israel control that too?

 

[Pandora]

israel controls the shore of gaza and prevent every shipment to inter gaza from water,, except that one time when a group of europian peace activist tried to break the sige on gaza. gaza is not an independant country, we never had our full control over our borders. and whenever israel want to close it it does! and cut the food and oil on the 1.5 million palestinian in the gaza strip. when people have nothing to go, nothing to do, while they watch there kids dying of hunger, what do you expect them to do?

Come on, be realistic. If they can smuggle rockets in dont you think "if they cared" they could smuggle some bread and meat in ?

 

[Basil]

yes it does. egypt border with gaza is closed because egypt doesnt recognize hamas's authority duo to the peace agreements with israel since the 70's.

and the air supply cant go to gaza since the israeli air crafts are in the sky day and night. in addition that israel had destryed the airport in the bigining of al entefada in the year 2000.

what is happeining in gaza is crime every way you look at it. even before the attack! the sige on a million and half people and denying them the means of life is indeed a CRIME.

 

[Pandora]

hamas is a part of palestinian people. and it is not really the proplem. palestinian people -including me- where kicked out of there land. to make israeli people who came from all over the world live instead of them! my dad left palestine when he was 10 years old with his family. and since then i dont even have a passport. what i have is a document that allow me a very limited travelling ability and says that i am a refugee. i really dont know what is a proper translation for this document in english!
the fight palestinian fight is for there identity.

Hamas IS the problem and unless the people there figure out having a terrorist group be the leader and spokes persons for them, they truly never will have any peace. and people like me will never feel that bad for them having to live in the conditions they keep putting on themselves.

 

[Pandora]

yes it does. egypt border with gaza is closed because egypt doesnt recognize hamas's authority duo to the peace agreements with israel since the 70's.

and the air supply cant go to gaza since the israeli air crafts are in the sky day and night. in addition that israel had destryed the airport in the bigining of al entefada in the year 2000.

what is happeining in gaza is crime every way you look at it. even before the attack! the sige on a million and half people and denying them the means of life is indeed a CRIME.

Can you explain how they are getting the rockets and other weapons in but they cant get any food in?

 

[Basil]

and it happened. how do you think a million and half palestinians lived like that for a year and half? it comes in from egypt by tunnels palestininas dug with there hands under the border

but how much bread can you smuggle? is it enough for the people there?

and why would i have to smuggle bread in? isnt it my rigt to eat bread whenevr i want? or is that a terroriset act?

 

[numinus]

hamas is a part of palestinian people.

Of course they are part of the palestinian people. I can take your word for that -- although it is an underground organization, hence one cannot really be certain as to its membership.

What I do not understand is WHY you let hamas represent the palestinian people?

Hamas never accepted to lay down their arms against israel. Hamas vowed to destroy israel as a pre-condition to palestinian statehood.

Is that your belief as well?

and it is not really the proplem. palestinian people -including me- where kicked out of there land. to make israeli people who came from all over the world live instead of them! my dad left palestine when he was 10 years old with his family. and since then i dont even have a passport. what i have is a document that allow me a very limited travelling ability and says that i am a refugee. i really dont know what is a proper translation for this document in english!

I'm sorry but have you ever read the declaration of statehood of israel? Here is the pertinent excerpt:

...in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months — to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions. We extend our hand to all neighbouring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighbourliness, and appeal to them to establish bonds of cooperation and mutual help with the sovereign Jewish people settled in its own land. The State of Israel is prepared to do its share in a common effort for the advancement of the entire Middle East.

History says that the palestinians left their homes in order for the combined armies of egypt, iraq, (trans)jordan and syria to draw a river of jewish blood.

Is that what you want?

the fight palestinian fight is for there identity.

And you shall have it, as soon as you learn to coexist with israel.

A people's right to exist cannot manifest at the expense of another people's right to the same.

 

[Pandora]

and it happened. how do you think a million and half palestinians lived like that for a year and half? it comes in from egypt by tunnels palestininas dug with there hands under the border

but how much bread can you smuggle? is it enough for the people there?

and why would i have to smuggle bread in? isnt it my rigt to eat bread whenevr i want? or is that a terroriset act?

If they would quit bombing cafe's and busses they wouldn't need to smuggle anything. Try to see it from the Israel point of view for a moment

 

[numinus]

yes it does. egypt border with gaza is closed because egypt doesnt recognize hamas's authority duo to the peace agreements with israel since the 70's.

and the air supply cant go to gaza since the israeli air crafts are in the sky day and night. in addition that israel had destryed the airport in the bigining of al entefada in the year 2000.

what is happeining in gaza is crime every way you look at it. even before the attack! the sige on a million and half people and denying them the means of life is indeed a CRIME.

I'm sorry but you are not making any sense at all.

Gaza has thousands of kassam rockets. It is very obvious from secondary blasts following the israeli bombing.

Now, either the palestinians themselves are making these rockets -- which means you are using your time, effort and money to make war rather than feed yourselves, OR, they are being transported clandestinely from outside gaza -- which means it is entirely possible for food and gasoline to get in.

Either way, it clearly points to the fact that the only ones committing crimes against the palestinian people are yourselves.

 

[Pandora]

israel controls the shore of gaza and prevent every shipment to inter gaza from water,, except that one time when a group of europian peace activist tried to break the sige on gaza. gaza is not an independant country, we never had our full control over our borders. and whenever israel want to close it it does! and cut the food and oil on the 1.5 million palestinian in the gaza strip. when people have nothing to go, nothing to do, while they watch there kids dying of hunger, what do you expect them to do?

I can see that you find Israel the one to blame, so lets work from there. What does Israel need to do for you and hamas to be happy and have peace?

Other than cut their own throats or walk into the sea to die of course.

What do you want Israel to do when hamas bombs a cafe full of civilians?

What do you want Israel to do when hamas bombs a bus full of inocent people?

What can Israel do that would make you feel you have peace?

 

[Basil]

numinus,,, my english is really poor and ill need some time to reply to what you have said completly! but i understood that we can be equal citizins in israel? then why am i not allowed even to go into gaza and visit my relatives there? the last time i went there was 10 years ago and it was with a temporary viitation premission! like i am visiting people in a jail!

obamanation
palestinians wont bombthe busses and cafes if they are not attacked back at home! i told you in my first post. we can keep arguing like this forever!

btw i am not an expert of any kind! i am just an college guy who study engineering so dont expect me to know alot about history

 

[numinus]

And one other thing, one does not need diplomatic status to receive humanitarian aid. If your muslim brothers like egypt closes the border simply because you do not have statehood, what more can you expect from israel, the country hamas vows to destroy?

Israel has already withdrawn their communities from gaza. Whay can't you just take the land and leave them in peace?

 

[Pandora]

numinus,,, my english is really poor and ill need some time to reply to what you have said completly! but i understood that we can be equal citizins in israel? then why am i not allowed even to go into gaza and visit my relatives there? the last time i went there was 10 years ago and it was with a temporary viitation premission! like i am visiting people in a jail!

obamanation
palestinians wont bombthe busses and cafes if they are not attacked back at home! i told you in my first post. we can keep arguing like this forever!

btw i am not an expert of any kind! i am just an college guy who study engineering so dont expect me to know alot about history

Basil, your english is very very good. Do not worry about that.

Unless the news is in a constant lie, the reports have always said that Israel counter attacks after a bus or cafe is bombed.

I dont under stand something, you said you cant go visit your family that live in Israel. Are they treated ok or are they treated horrible like slaves or like sub humans who cant use the same bathrooms. Why are you stopped from visiting?

I saw something on the news about the borders, they said so many kept smuggling bombs that they have to be really careful who they let in.

 

[numinus]

numinus,,, my english is really poor and ill need some time to reply to what you have said completly! but i understood that we can be equal citizins in israel? then why am i not allowed even to go into gaza and visit my relatives there? the last time i went there was 10 years ago and it was with a temporary viitation premission! like i am visiting people in a jail!

Because your grandfather DID NOT ACCEPT the offer of citizenship. And so, it is up to you to make your own choices and fashion your own destiny.

Do you want to spend your life in war or are you prepared to live in peace in gaza, with israel as your neighbor?

 

[Basil]

when we are able to live! when we have our exictace , when we are able to go in and out of our land without anyone to prevent us from leaving or coming back. when israel doesnt kill 100 KIDS in 5 days. when israel let the people live in degnity in gaza! when every refugee is back to palestine! then we all live in peace dont you think what i ask for is fair?