Prove that God doesn't exist.

[KeepOurFreedoms]

God told me that the Bible was mostly nonsense, that He didn't do all that stuff like command people to commit genocide, burn animals' bodies for sacrifice, keep slaves, sell children, and all the rest. He said that the Bible has some good things in it, like forgiveness, loving others as oneself, turning the other cheek, and reaping what you sow, but all the punishment and Hell and damnation stuff was just written by people to scare other people into obeying out of fear.

God made special point of saying that He is interested in our love and there cannot be even the tiniest hint of coercion in love. Love by definition has to be a gift given freely, and that He is willing to wait for us to come to Him of our own free will so that when we return we can truly love Him because we will be with Him of our own choice with no fear or force involved.

God is not only better than we imagine, He is better than we CAN imagine. It seemed pretty clear to me.

Looks like you divided the Old and New Testaments pretty well.

 

[KeepOurFreedoms]

Yeah, I can't say he's ever responded to me.

Have you ever tried?

 

[9sublime]

Have you ever tried?

Yes, I'll admit it, I have.

And I've never even felt a presence, let alone got an answer (the one I wanted or not). I've never felt anything to indicate there is a God. When I see the beauty of the world, that is some way to convincing me, only to be cancelled out (at least) by all the pain and suffering in the world.

Now... stop changing the subject and tell me why would God leave people out in the cold for thousands of years and not tell them about the way to heaven?

 

[KeepOurFreedoms]

Yes, I'll admit it, I have.

And I've never even felt a presence, let alone got an answer (the one I wanted or not). I've never felt anything to indicate there is a God. When I see the beauty of the world, that is some way to convincing me, only to be cancelled out (at least) by all the pain and suffering in the world.

Now... stop changing the subject and tell me why would God leave people out in the cold for thousands of years and not tell them about the way to heaven?

How would I know the answer to that? I have MANY of my own questions for God to answer.

God gave the Jews animal sacrifices for their salvation. I have no idea why they quit killing animals, but I'm glad they did.

Did you believe in God when you prayed?

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Who has the message right?

Your underlying assumption is that there is a single "right" message that applies to everyone and there is only one person or one way to receive/perceive that message. I think your underlying assumption is totally false. I suspect that our individual relationships with our Creator are unique to each of us, we each have our own path to God, and trying to force everyone to follow any single path is a mistake.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Looks like you divided the Old and New Testaments pretty well.

I'm not sure what you mean, I think most of the New Testament is nonsense too.

 

[vyo476]

They do? Might be interesting to hear what God said to them.

Why don't you ask Jim Jones what God said to him?

Oh, wait...

Right, right, Jim Jones is dead. Oops. Wonder how that happened?

Well, since you can't ask him, maybe you should ask Charlie Manson. He's still around.

 

[vyo476]

Have you ever tried?

I have, too. Or more to the point, my mother has.

She has Multiple Sclerosis and it's pretty bad. She has no use of her legs anymore. She has no hand-eye coordination. She has no strength. She can't roll over in bed without help. She occasionally has trouble with diction and memory. In order to prevent the disease from getting worse, she takes a slew of medications - some of which have some pretty extreme negative affects of their own. At least once a week, I can hear her crying her eyes out, asking God why He's done this to her. To the best of my knowledge he's never answered.

That's what I've grown up with. Would you believe in God if you were in my shoes?

For a while I considered myself an atheist, but in the end I realized I was just angry at the idea of a God that would allow my mother to suffer the way she's suffered. I settled for agnosticism - while I can be tolerant of other peoples' religions, I can't go either way in believing them, because atheism is just another empty belief system - unverifiable and ultimately fruitless.

One thing's for sure - if when I die I find out there really is a God I'm going to be ****ing pissed.

 

[KeepOurFreedoms]

Your underlying assumption is that there is a single "right" message that applies to everyone and there is only one person or one way to receive/perceive that message. I think your underlying assumption is totally false. I suspect that our individual relationships with our Creator are unique to each of us, we each have our own path to God, and trying to force everyone to follow any single path is a mistake.

You are wrong in your assumption of my opinion. I'm still seeking the truth.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Why don't you ask Jim Jones what God said to him?

Oh, wait...

Right, right, Jim Jones is dead. Oops. Wonder how that happened?

Well, since you can't ask him, maybe you should ask Charlie Manson. He's still around.

Fred Phelps, ask ol' Fred, he'll tell ya, God talks to him all the time.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

You are wrong in your assumption of my opinion. I'm still seeking the truth.

Then why ask "Who has the message right?" You have the message as right as anyone else, look into your own heart. Seek and ye shall find, knock and the door shall be opened unto you. God waits for everyone, you have all the time you need, no one is lost.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

I have, too. Or more to the point, my mother has.

She has Multiple Sclerosis and it's pretty bad. She has no use of her legs anymore. She has no hand-eye coordination. She has no strength. She can't roll over in bed without help. She occasionally has trouble with diction and memory. In order to prevent the disease from getting worse, she takes a slew of medications - some of which have some pretty extreme negative affects of their own. At least once a week, I can hear her crying her eyes out, asking God why He's done this to her. To the best of my knowledge he's never answered.

That's what I've grown up with. Would you believe in God if you were in my shoes?

For a while I considered myself an atheist, but in the end I realized I was just angry at the idea of a God that would allow my mother to suffer the way she's suffered. I settled for agnosticism - while I can be tolerant of other peoples' religions, I can't go either way in believing them, because atheism is just another empty belief system - unverifiable and ultimately fruitless.

One thing's for sure - if when I die I find out there really is a God I'm going to be ****ing pissed.

That's a rough one, I'm sorry to hear about your Mother's suffering, she must be a very strong person to be tested so severely. And you as well, watching a loved one suffer is one of the worst things to cope with for most of us. I've often wondered about the suffering that I have seen, why God would allow it and I have to admit that I have no answer. Since I can't do anything about it I have tried (with only moderate and sporadic success) to look at it as the suffering being a test of the person and the stronger they are the more difficult the test. I have no idea if it's true, but it does give me a way to rationalize something that really makes no sense to me. It's a coping technique I guess. Good luck, my heart goes out to you.

 

[numinus]

When Mohammed said he was the son of Allah, when Buddha preached his word, when tribesmen in remote parts of the world tell people they are a messenger of God and people believe them through the brainwashing power of religion, they take their equivilants word.

Why would God send down his messenger, but allow all these equally convincing (obviously to some people) imposters also live on the earth?

Different manifestations of a single truth - the existence of god.

What is your problem with that?

And what if I don't believe Jesus. I don't believe everything everyone says, especially not someone who lived 2,000 years ago.

Really?

You are inclined to believe the words of someone based on how far removed from history they are from you?

And aside from the fact that jesus lived 2000 years prior to you, can you state exactly what he said that you don't believe and why?

The fact you point out a Muslim alternative just highlights my problem with God letting multiple, convincing religions survive on the earth.

One's religion doesn't affect the logical processes of reason - THAT'S THE POINT.

Also, ALL THESE PEOPLE LIVED AFTER JESUS. Who was preaching the word of Christianity before Jesus? NOBODY. Bit odd that really. Letting millions upon millions of people never even hear of Jesus or the true Lord.

That's your problem!

You need someone to tell you a self-evident truth.

And when someone does come along and say it, you're not inclined to believe.

Are you sure your brain cells haven't yet atrophied?

 

[numinus]

Funny then, how many people it escapes.

Ever wonder why more than 90 % of the world's population believe in a creator in one form or another?

Oh and btw, more than 90 % of the world's population believe in a creator in one form or another.

The people that the truth 'escapes from' consist of a painfully small minority - perhaps comparable to the statistical occurence of insanity in any given population.

Go figure.

 

[KeepOurFreedoms]

Then why ask "Who has the message right?" You have the message as right as anyone else, look into your own heart. Seek and ye shall find, knock and the door shall be opened unto you. God waits for everyone, you have all the time you need, no one is lost.

I wanted to hear what you had to say. You think one is wrong, which one do you think is right?

Interesting that you quote the bible even though you think most if it is wrong.