Pelosi says, "We're not losing"

[Rick]

The FULL story about the Reagan amnesty is that he reluctantly granted amnesty for a million people, from purely humane instincts, and with the understanding by all concerned that would be a once-and-for all proposition. Of course, that understanding has been completely brushed aside. The illegal invasion situation a quarter of a century later is vastly different from 1986. At the height, before the recession, there were about 20 million invaders, and when the recession is over (circa 2012 or so after the obamanistas leave town) the ones who left will be back with many more to come. With high invader birth rates and the effects of chain migration, this country will essentially be a mexican country in about 20 - 30 years. The previous illegals have stayed largely unassimilated, speak spanish, and identify as mexicans. Most have no particular loyalty to or identification with this country, and many maintain dual citizenship. The result of the democrat/RINO sponsored illegal alien invasion has resulted in vastly increased crime in the southwest, the looting of social services on an industrial scale, the closure of bankrupted emergency services, the balkanization of of our country, and the distortion of our politics. At the same time the world has become hugely more competitive, the US imports millions of mexico's illiterate unskilled underclass.

 

[PLC1]

The illegal invasion situation a quarter of a century later is vastly different from 1986.

When amnesty passed in '86, the rural elementary school where I taught was totally inundated by children who didn't speak English, many of whom could not read and write. Is the situation really different today? If it is, it is because of that turning point, when the flood of illegals became a deluge back in the mid '80s due to amnesty.

What is different about amnesty today is that we can look back and know what will happen should we pass it. At that time, it was a matter of speculation, but now we know. We have a choice of understanding history, or repeating it.

Whether amnesty is passed by "liberals" or by "conservatives" matters not at all.

 

[Rick]

When amnesty passed in '86, the rural elementary school where I taught was totally inundated by children who didn't speak English, many of whom could not read and write. Is the situation really different today? If it is, it is because of that turning point, when the flood of illegals became a deluge back in the mid '80s due to amnesty.

What is different about amnesty today is that we can look back and know what will happen should we pass it. At that time, it was a matter of speculation, but now we know. We have a choice of understanding history, or repeating it.

Whether amnesty is passed by "liberals" or by "conservatives" matters not at all.

Before it was illegalized by the people of california by initiative, illegal alien children in california were taught in spanish, using spanish language textbooks imported from mexico. Then they realized they needed mexican teachers, so a few thosand were recruited to come here from mexico city. The illegals here are illiterate - they have to be taught to read and write in spanish before they can be taught english!!

One local La Raza hispanic has said the issue is the reverse - "anglo" children in the southwest better be taught spanish if they don't want to lose out in life. Day by day, step by step, the southwest is becoming essentially a mexican province.

 

[PLC1]

Before it was illegalized by the people of california by initiative, illegal alien children in california were taught in spanish, using spanish language textbooks imported from mexico. Then they realized they needed mexican teachers, so a few thosand were recruited to come here from mexico city. The illegals here are illiterate - they have to be taught to read and write in spanish before they can be taught english!!

That's correct, except for importing teachers from Mexico. I don't remember that, and the CTA would have opposed it pretty vehemently.

I was, in fact, one of those teachers teaching Mexican children to read and write in Spanish while they were learning English. The fact of the matter is, you can't teach anyone to read using a language that they don't speak, and yes, a lot of them are illiterate when they arrive in the US. Schools for the rural poor in Mexico leave a lot to be desired.

One local La Raza hispanic has said the issue is the reverse - "anglo" children in the southwest better be taught spanish if they don't want to lose out in life. Day by day, step by step, the southwest is becoming essentially a mexican province.

Learning to speak Spanish is a distinct advantage in the Southwest. Actually, everyone should learn a second language. Educated people in most of the world are bilingual at the very least, even in third world countries. Not only is bilingualism an intellectual advantage, but it is a practical advantage as well. Wouldn't it be useful to have more citizens fluent in Farsi, Pashto, Russian, or Arabic? Yet, there are more teachers of English in Russia than there are students of Russian in the US. A monolingual society is poorly equipped to compete in a global economy, let alone go on nation building adventures around the world.

But I digress. Yes, I agree that illegal immigration is a huge problem, and that little is being done about it.

 

[Rick]

That's correct, except for importing teachers from Mexico. I don't remember that, and the CTA would have opposed it pretty vehemently.

Yep - it happened. See eg http://books.google.com/books?id=U8...ol system imported "mexican teachers"&f=false

Lots of other links on this by googling.

Learning to speak Spanish is a distinct advantage in the Southwest. Actually, everyone should learn a second language. Educated people in most of the world are bilingual at the very least, even in third world countries. Not only is bilingualism an intellectual advantage, but it is a practical advantage as well. Wouldn't it be useful to have more citizens fluent in Farsi, Pashto, Russian, or Arabic? Yet, there are more teachers of English in Russia than there are students of Russian in the US. A monolingual society is poorly equipped to compete in a global economy, let alone go on nation building adventures around the world.

I'm certainly not arguing against learning other languages generally - the point was that people who have no business being here in the first place are beoming the tail that's wagging the educational dog. The desparity in russian and english is not surprising - hardly anyone but russians speak russian, and people all over the world speak english. Your claim that a monolingual society is at a disadvantage is questionable - only the relatively few who need to interact with with foreign countries need speak another language. In fact, english is the closest thing to an international business and technical language there is.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

When you are unable to debate a side's REAL positions, make up fictional ones.

Im sorry, I thought repeal the law, ment to you know repeal the law...to repeal the law, would mean ...just what i said...

I guess maybe you don't even know what your position actually is then

 

[pocketfullofshells]

they are filing out schools they don't speak english...you know its the same crap said about...well just start filling in non British countries..when they came over...of course Mexico happens to be on the border so more of them...also part of the US ...was in fact mexico...till we took it...so that changes things as well.

but alas the No-nothings don't ever die off...well soon they will...when whites are a minority, regardless of Immigration reform.

 

[Rick]

they are filing out schools they don't speak english...you know its the same crap said about...well just start filling in non British countries..when they came over...of course Mexico happens to be on the border so more of them...also part of the US ...was in fact mexico...till we took it...so that changes things as well.

but alas the No-nothings don't ever die off...well soon they will...when whites are a minority, regardless of Immigration reform.

The attempt to equate the previous generations of gradually-introduced skilled, educated, law-abiding rapidly assimilated LEGAL immigrants, when there was no big welfare system to loot, with the huge historically sudden influx of tens of millions of illiterate unskilled highly balkanized illegal invaders from mexico is just another of the standard dimwitted things leftwingers say to avoid any real debate on the issue.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

The attempt to equate the previous generations of gradually-introduced skilled, educated, law-abiding rapidly assimilated LEGAL immigrants, when there was no big welfare system to loot, with the huge historically sudden influx of tens of millions of illiterate unskilled highly balkanized illegal invaders from mexico is just another of the standard dimwitted things leftwingers say to avoid any real debate on the issue.

I am sorry was there some kinda debate in there I missed, hard to tell with your saying nothing .....

 

[Gipper]

I am sorry was there some kinda debate in there I missed, hard to tell with your saying nothing .....

Well Pocketpool you must be a dimwitted left winger...cause you are avoiding real debate just as Rick said.

Funny how you continually steps in it with every post.

Down goes Pockets...down goes Pockets....

 

[PLC1]

Yep - it happened. See eg http://books.google.com/books?id=U8...ol system imported "mexican teachers"&f=false

Lots of other links on this by googling.

So, LAUSD actually imported teachers from Mexico. I'm surprised it happened at all, but Los Angeles would be the logical place for it. I wonder how they got around credentialing laws and the teacher's union. Must have taken some really creative wheeling and dealing.

I'm certainly not arguing against learning other languages generally - the point was that people who have no business being here in the first place are beoming the tail that's wagging the educational dog. The desparity in russian and english is not surprising - hardly anyone but russians speak russian, and people all over the world speak english. Your claim that a monolingual society is at a disadvantage is questionable - only the relatively few who need to interact with with foreign countries need speak another language. In fact, english is the closest thing to an international business and technical language there is.

Lots of people do speak English as a second language, which is a good thing for us. Maybe when China takes over as the next superpower, then we'll learn to speak Mandarin. Meanwhile, if we had more people who could speak the languages of the ME, perhaps the war in Iraq and Afganistan might have gone better, or even been avoided altogether.

Here in Mexifornia, it is a real advantage to be bilingual in English/Spanish. Still, you do have a point that the "immigrants" (illegal aliens) are having a big impact on our culture and language.

 

[steveox]

I guess we'll have to see won't we. Hopefully they will shove Obam-ba's health plan up his ***, and yes, tackle the illegal immigration problem which is a LEGAL issue and not a humanitarian one as the bleeding hearts believe.

The Republicans are not my team. My team is the one that will uphold the Constitution.
That is not the Republican party either. Change is in the air bud, and those who ARE loyal to a party regardless, are in the ones in denial of facts.

Politics never takes human nature into consideration. It never has.

Everybody wanted "change". It's coming again.

The Constitution is Liberalism. So you agree that Police Officers should read your rights when you get arrested? you agree that Police Officers should get a warrant before busting down your door in your own home? you agree that Police Officers should stop interogating you when you ask for a lawyer? you agree you have the right to tell the Judge you take the 5th cause that question may incriminate you? The Constitution favors criminals it gives them an edge too get off the hook when they commit a crime.