Oregon passes tax increases on corporations and the wealthy..

[cdbussey]

Yes, I'm so very jealous of my brother's blocked arteries, his wife's impending lung cancer and their three kids who grew up believing "love" was a shiny new motorcycle.

You nailed me!


It isn't jealousy, it's an abhorrence to absurd gluttony. If they start a small business with that money and employ people, give 'em a tax break. Sure, I'm all for that. Give small businesses good incentive. Just not those households that do nothing with their money but party down in personal gluttony.

For example, I bring in a fraction, a tiny fraction of what they do and yet I still manage to pay all my bills and have just a little bit left over to donate 10% of to charity that supports homeless families trying to get jobs and get back on their feet. My brother and his wife of over 10 times my income give nothing back. Nothing. It might cut into her cartons of smokes or his ribroast budget and well...that's not gonna happen..lol..

You judge your brother and see not the mote in your own eye.

Let's be real HOW MUCH are you into your brothers business that you know his tax return, how much he gives or doesn't give etc... that's freaky dude.

 

[cdbussey]

Oh, your argument is that no money should be taken away from anyone.

How do you propose covering our costs? Ever blacktopped a road by yourself? It's quite a messy and difficult job with only shovels and a mop. And those potholes that will spring up will be quite the bugger for your aching back.

How do you propose blacktopping that road if all the people with money just say "I'm not going to be robbed by a bunch of lowlife ne'er-do-wells" and leave?

The sad fact your poverty stricken mind can't accept is they AREN'T stuck here. They CAN move to the bahamas. dummy.

This is America, we have to be willing to do business to stay in business. your town wants to be jackass and charge the crap out of a wealthy industry, that industry will move to a town or county offering a better deal. they take those jobs with them. Did they not offer economics in your town? How did your brother do so well? Did he actually NOT party through high-school and learn something?

Will YOUR pathetic taxes pay to blacktop your own driveway much less a street?

 

[cdbussey]

If you don't mind I would like to take a crack at this one. If the people of Oregon did allow for the taking of private property then would they be breaking the law according to the constitution? Here is a link that can answer that question. It's from wikipedia so its not the best.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London

I'm not sure you two are talking about the same thing. I agree that other guys wording may have been confusing. I may be the one confused.

 

[cdbussey]

you can get by on 1500 a month, why stop there ?

you realize wealthy people do more than buy food with their money right ? taking each additional dollar means one less to grow the economy.

Wealthy people don't provide to the economy when they buy a new couch dog, or go to the movies, or eat out etc. etc.... This guy was earlier berating his own brother for being successful and eating steaks. Oh, and his brothers wife smokes (a carton a day I think he said). such gluttons. My opinion is this is the brother that "cooled" his way through school and is now working some boring job, barely getting by and is insane with jealousy. JMHO

 

[Revere]

So, after blacktopping roads, government is basically worthless?

 

[GenSeneca]

So laws are optional? If I don't feel like obeying to the law than that's okay because it somehow violates my personal sense of right and wrong?

Is that the kind of society you advocate?

The kind of society that I advocate for is one where our individual rights are protected by law, where the initiation of the use of force is banned from all aspects of life. That means not only are your rights protected from violation by any other individual or group, but they are also protected against violations from government.

Any associations, i.e., interactions between individuals, should be entirely voluntary. That way people can engage one another while looking for associations that are mutually beneficial and free to avoid those which are not.

Laws that violate our rights are violating the entire purpose of government, to protect our rights. When a law demands that people engage in associations that are not mutually beneficial, but instead are based on one individual being forced to sacrifice for the benefit of another, then society is operating as do looters, thieves, and criminals, who's crime are legitimized by way of passing a law that says they can rob anyone they wish.

BTW, notice how I ask you if this is what you believe... I don't tell you what you believe?

Very well... You said you were a Socialist and I apologize for thinking you believed what people who call themselves socialists typically believe: that rights do not exist in nature but are created by man, that mankind is free to do anything to anyone so long as the law says it is legal to do so, that the individual must be subordinated to collective will for the common good of society, and that the redistribution of wealth is necessary and proper for the good of society.

Now, do you believe those things? Perhaps you could sum up what kind of society you are advocating for.

 

[cdbussey]

From somewhere the idea that a person deserves everything they can get has taken over our political viewpoint. It's just the newest version of Might is Right, and now the Supreme Court has given the mighty rich the right to buy government, control going to the highest bidder.

Mare, I don't know of much that I have that I don't deserve. I still have hope of acquiring more than I now have and I EXPECT to deserve it. I want to earn it. I can honestly say that I will deeply resent anybody begrudging what I have someday when I KNOW I worked hard FOR it. I see that as you having been lazy and become envious.

What's missing in this equation is the social contract, the idea that we are all in this together. How well do feudal societies work, Corn? You know, with the super rich owning everything and everyone else being their serfs.

I don't know about this social contract. I mean that for real. I HAVE been out of school for a long time now so maybe I've forgotten. Are you talking about socialism? Maybe not, but if so, let me be the first to tell you, this country was not founded on socialist principles in any way shape or form. It just wasn't Mare. If you want socialism, you're in the wrong country. Move.

One of the things that puzzles me is that when the majority of people vote to exclude gay people from getting equal rights, the Conservatives say, "It's the will of the people," but when the same people pass a tax on the rich--all of a sudden it's an issue personal freedom. Lying hypocrites. Siho is correct in this.

Which vote was it where I voted (I think of myself as one of the majority so I assume I voted in this) to exclude gay people from getting equal rights?

 

[GenSeneca]

dummy.

Cdbussey, welcome to the forum. I just wanted to warn you that what I have quoted constitutes a personal attack and the mods are cracking down on them. I do not wish to dissuade you from posting, quite the opposite, just want to warn you ahead of time that calling someone a dummy will get you in trouble but you are free to say their ideas are dumb.

Again, welcome and happy posting.

 

[cdbussey]

The rich have a disproportionate amount of the wealth, so YES, we are justified in taking percentage of it for the good of the State.

IMO what you are talking about is anarchy. I don't believe it is possible for human beings to create the perfect society. there will always be malcontents. there will always be lazy people. No matter how perfect the world becomes there will always be those that will excel, those that will muddle by, and worse, those that will in fact try to mess things up.

do we dumb down society to suit the malcontents or what Mare? Are you a christian? If so, Jesus predicted we'll ALWAYS have the poor.

Would you like our schools to dumb down the curriculum to the lowest level student in class? I hate to see that kid left behind as much as I am sure you do, but hey. Life is short.

Bear in mind that we have conscripted young people to give their lives for the benefit of the rest of us, why should rich people not take their chances in the court of public opinion as we all do?

THIS was a good argument. However, to complete it, you have to show that it would benefit our nation for everybody to make the same amount of money, you know, no pay discrepencies. I guess you have to prove communism is a good idea. Good luck.

 

[cdbussey]

Having a lot of money doesn't make one an "achiever", dog. Rich people don't drive the economy, the workers do that.

I don't mean to insult, I really don't, but this line of thought you are following is absurd. Rich people don't drive the economy, the workers do. ROFLMBO. Mare, if that rich person just packs up and leaves for greener pastures (= less taxes, workers who will work for less than $30/hr). WHAT HAPPENS to the economy AND the workers that rich person just left behind? You SHOULD know, you live in america I assume, it is happening all around us. ANSWER = U N E M P L O Y M E N T!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's all bear in mind the giant bailout of rich people, did they deserve that? Did that stimulate the economy? Are those AIG and Goldman Sachs people the "achievers" you admire?

While you're so busy watching out for the rights of the rich people, why don't you give some thought to the rights of the rest of us? Those bonuses should be taxed at 100% and money used to fund college educations, bridge rebuilding, drug treatment centers, or any of a 1000 other things that this country and its people need.

You're right! Why should doctors make more money than ditch diggers? that just isn't right! And why should my buddy go to college when he worked hard and made straight A's, I should too, just because I smoked a lot of dope and made straight C's, HEY I'M A WORKER, I DRIVE the economy (course I'm still stoned, but hey). What kind of quality of life would YOU have if DENNY'S didn't have $30/hour dishwashers? Share the wealth you greedy rich bastards!

 

[cdbussey]

As an Oregonian with a business and some knowledge of the PERS system and State employees, I voted for the tax increases. I know that all the PERS employees are being required to take furlough days off with no pay equal to 5% of their wages, all kinds of programs have been cut back or ended. Schools have been getting hit with losses every year--but we still get more students every year.

I fail to see how anyone can support Pentagon spending that is greater than what all the States spend on everything and ***** about tax money being spent here. How many billions are taken out of Oregon to pay for military expenditures every year? Why don't people complain about that? You're straining at gnats while swallowing camels.

I don't mean to be argumentative, but do you believe we'd have any kids to educate, I mean at least as Americans, if we were armed with bb guns right now?

 

[cdbussey]

...

Much of Oregon's problem stems from poor management by the Legislature, they have bungled the money handling for years. .....

Maybe I wasn't paying attention. Earlier in this thread I thought you were screaming for our need to give the government our money???? Was that not you? I could be confused for sure, I'm old.

 

[citizenzen]

The kind of society that I advocate for is one where our individual rights are protected by law, where the initiation of the use of force is banned from all aspects of life.

Dammit! I can never find my Teabag-to-English dictionary when I really need it!

Sorry. I have nooo idea what you just said.

Maybe if you said it a little louder.

 

[cdbussey]

I was refering to the people who work at PERS having to take the 5% cut by furlough days and they are the ones who have not received their cola or step increases either--I can't speak for the whole State system. The people at PERS had their insurance downsized too, did that happen to you?

You mean you socialist patriots didn't volunteer for that? I don't mean to be antagonistic here, but earlier you sounded like you WOULD have volunteered for the pay cut. to help the needy of course. This particular wording "HAVING to take the 5% cut....." doesn't sound too voluntary Mare.

Now I have to ask, WHO exactly are you asking the govt to TAKE money from? I ask you also to consider (time to grow up young lady) what happens when you take that money from them?

 

[cdbussey]

So laws are optional? If I don't feel like obeying to the law than that's okay because it somehow violates my personal sense of right and wrong?

Is that the kind of society you advocate?

Hi, I'm new here and either my mind is wandering or this forum is wandering. I was talking about tax when I got here, is this the same forum?


I think laws ARE optional. That's my opinion. You have the RIGHT as an american citizen to break the laws.

We the rest of us as american citizens have the right to have you locked up when you do so, we don't have to, it's an option.