Obama's "read my lips" moment has arrived!

[BigRob]

yes yes and yes? fact is people a lot of people wanted these, why do you think when they come out there are waiting lists for them...while used Durangos they have actuly had to throw in a free car to get them off the lot ( yes they have actuly done that, you got a free PT Crusier)

People are on waiting lists because the market has proved unable to mass produce these things, and they would already be doing so if it proved economically viable at the time. If I produce 10 cars and 100 people want it, there will be a big waiting list, however that does not equate to a demand that is economically viable to switch factories to produce solely that kind of car.

As for giving away free cars to sell others, a lot of that is due to the issue that both of those companies are bankrupt and many people are worried about a warranty and other things.

 

[top gun]

So when I go with professional nonpartisan CBO numbers of budget issues and get blasted for being bias I will expect your support.

I'm not really looking to blast anyone. I'm sure if you put up nonpartisan numbers on something I'd consider them along side whatever nonpartisan numbers I found from other places.

They would not create anything there was not a demand for. What this is is an attempt to legislate behavior on the American public.

Well there's not much demand for pollution. And whether one agrees with the climate change position or not it really can't be denied that pumping more & more & more greenhouse gases into the environment isn't a good thing for several other reasons.

It's like when they said no more leaded gas... I remember it well. A lot of people didn't like that idea either. It was hard on the performance car crowd for awhile and it's not like breathing lead in the air was something you noticed. But it was a bad thing and it had to be addressed.

Had the government not said hey no more leaded gas we'd probably still be breathing it today.

State levels will never compete with federal levels, and federal levels are where the highest amounts come from.

No doubt. I'm simply saying that when you look at all the taxes there are a hell of a lot abated to zero for businesses. I live next to a small town that has a large industrial base. Mainly warehouse type businesses. K mart warehouse... Radio Shack warehouse... Discount Tire warehouse things like that. That town should be doing great tax revenue wise but they're not. Their schools are always broke and going to the voters because the lion's share of their business base has huge tax abatements... 10, 15, 20 years zero local tax.

All I'm saying is businesses also get some significant tax breaks that John Q public would never see.

I am all for going green, once the market demands that it occur. The government creating false demand and false markets for such products is not helping anyone.

Well I think the last gas spike of $4 and 5 bucks a gallon was the straw that broke that's camel's back. We already had the green house gas thing a brewing and then the huge gas spike for a prolonged period of time pushed this forward.

I'm for moving on it and getting ahead of the curve... because getting caught way behind the curve on energy or pollution is not the place you really want to be.

What free market? The one mandated by the government? Companies fail all the time and should be allowed to do so, the problem is when the government decides what markets will not fail. We can "go green" without the government, and certainly without government mandates to do so.

Well like my leaded gas example businesses simply don't operate that way. They tend to stay with the oldest most polluting methods for as long as they possibly can if that is even just a little bit beneficial to their bottom line.

When those products are actually created the market will present itself. Are we creating a market for products that do not yet exist?

Solar panels exist. Wind turbines exist. Hybrid and clean diesel cars exist. Electric cars are about to hit. Fuel cell cars are not far off. Energy saving lights exist. There is all kinds of better technology that exists or is just about to break that we can as I said before... be a little ahead of the curve on.

It's like Honda & Toyota focusing on very high quality good gas mileage coups & sedans and building that "we're best and ahead of the game reputation" while America automakers were more interested in the image of their Hummer, Escalade, Yukon Denali, Hemi Durango and such.

Like Lee Iacocca said it's: LEAD, FOLLOW, or GET OUT OF THE WAY!

quote: Speaking of TV's have you not been watching the Republicant Obstruction machine on yours? Even with Franken's vote (now that almost 8 months later he's going to get to vote) things aren't just handed out that way. The Republicants will drag each & every process out as long as possible. Do I think in the long run we'll get 80% -90% of what we want? Yes. But it's certainly not because the Republicants want to work together. They're in full bash mode.

I say again, the Democratic party has absolute control over this country. It is time to stop blaming Republicans.

Well Franken just got in today I think 8 months after his election due to Obstructionist techniques. And Bush had 8 full years to get us from Clinton great economy surplus and no war to terrible crashing economy all around and 2 wars.

It might take a minute to stop a snowball rolling down a hill that big. But President Obama has personally worked hard and moved quicker than any President I can remember.

Then why are we doing it?

Because we can do better than we are. You know there wasn't a line around the block to buy cars when horses were the main mode of transportation either. But as cars & what that newer technology featured came out more & more the horse as transportation steadily lost market share.

Would anyone be buying these cars if the government was not trying to shove them down our throats? When the market is able to create these cars in a cost efficient manner then so be it, until then, let business figure out how to do it more efficiently. Instead we just have the government telling us tough luck.

Well because they simply didn't do that. 2 of the 3 were broke and close to liquidation. This was the golden opportunity to say...

OK you're broke and need a a big loan to survive. Tell you what, we'll give you that loan but you have to invest in the future and not continue to do the old fashion things that obviously didn't work. The deal is we'll help you. You'll create higher quality, competitive, cleaner, much more fuel efficient cars. That will help save American jobs, our environment and require less foreign oil... which in turns helps safeguard us all from the sure to come repetition of oil/gas price spikes.