Obamaconomy!!!

BigRob said:
Economic recovery was going to happen regardless. Putting that aside, if the President truly believes we are on the mend, why can we not end the stimulus, and why are they pushing for billions more to be spent in a "jobs bill", and why are we still pushing "green jobs" to aide our recovery?

If we are recovering, let the private sector take back over, why continue to demand all this government intervention?
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Recovering ? I would not count those chickens just yet.

The labour force contracted by 661,000. This did not show up in the headline jobless rate because so many Americans dropped out of the system. The broad U6 category of unemployment rose to 17.3pc. That is the one that matters.

Wall Street rallied. Bulls hope that weak jobs data will postpone monetary tightening: a silver lining in every catastrophe, or perhaps a further exhibit of market infantilism.

The home foreclosure guillotine usually drops a year or so after people lose their job, and exhaust their savings. The local sheriff will escort them out of the door, often with some sympathy –– just like the police in 1932, mostly Irish Catholics who tithed 1pc of their pay for soup kitchens.
Realtytrac says defaults and repossessions have been running at over 300,000 a month since February. One million American families lost their homes in the fourth quarter. Moody's Economy.com expects another 2.4m homes to go this year. Taken together, this looks awfully like Steinbeck's Grapes of Wrath.

Judges are finding ways to block evictions. One magistrate in Minnesota halted a case calling the creditor "harsh, repugnant, shocking and repulsive". We are not far from a de facto moratorium in some areas.
This is how it ended between 1932 and 1934, when half the US states declared moratoria or "Farm Holidays". Such flexibility innoculated America's democracy against the appeal of Red Unions and Coughlin Fascists. The home siezures are occurring despite frantic efforts by the Obama administration to delay the process.

This policy is entirely justified given the scale of the social crisis. But it also masks the continued rot in the housing market, allows lenders to hide losses, and stores up an ever larger overhang of unsold properties. It takes heroic naivety to think the US housing market has turned the corner (apologies to Goldman Sachs, as always). The fuse has yet to detonate on the next mortgage bomb, $134bn (£83bn) of "option ARM" contracts due to reset violently upwards this year and next.

US house prices have eked out five months of gains on the Case-Shiller index, but momentum stalled in October in half the cities even before the latest surge of 40 basis points in mortgage rates. Karl Case (of the index) says prices may sink another 15pc. "If the 2008 and 2009 loans go bad, then we're back where we were before – in a nightmare."

David Rosenberg from Gluskin Sheff said it is remarkable how little traction has been achieved by zero rates and the greatest fiscal blitz of all time. The US economy grew at a 2.2pc rate in the third quarter (entirely due to Obama stimulus). This compares to an average of 7.3pc in the first quarter of every recovery since the Second World War.
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Give back the rest of porkulus. Its done nothing. Pissing away the rest only hurts.

Health Insurance reform ? Even Dodd says this is anything but a done deal.
 
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dogtowner said:
Recovering ? I would not count those chickens just yet.

Give back the rest of porkulus. Its done nothing. Pissing away the rest only hurts.

Health Insurance reform ? Even Dodd says this is anything but a done deal.
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I agree with you.. My point is just that if we are actually recovering (as many claim) why do we continue to need all this government stimulus. Additionally, if we are not recovering, why then would we continue the failed policies that have not generated a recovery? (ie government stimulus)
 
BigRob said:
Economic recovery was going to happen regardless. Putting that aside, if the President truly believes we are on the mend, why can we not end the stimulus, and why are they pushing for billions more to be spent in a "jobs bill", and why are we still pushing "green jobs" to aide our recovery?

If we are recovering, let the private sector take back over, why continue to demand all this government intervention?
Click to expand...

We just have a fundamental difference of opinion... call it a philosophical difference if you will... about the need for stimulus. That goes for The Great Depression and The Bush Recession. That's fine... because good people can disagree.;)

And sure I think it could be said that the US economy would always eventually recover but eventually is a kinda key word here. If that meant that The Bush Recession would most likely have become The Bush Depression then doing something was critically important.

And that's what many many experts and people in both the Bush and later Obama administration felt was very possible.

Coming out of something this bad takes time and there's always a chance of a somewhat common double dip recession if you don't continue programs long enough for various economic factors to stabilize.

Jobs are what is still lacking and that's what a Jobs Bill targets to address. If they can be green jobs to me that's just an added benefit. I'm for a cleaner environment and things like higher mileage cars.
 
top gun said:
We just have a fundamental difference of opinion... call it a philosophical difference if you will... about the need for stimulus. That goes for The Great Depression and The Bush Recession. That's fine... because good people can disagree.;)
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Of course my side is right. :D

And sure I think it could be said that the US economy would always eventually recover but eventually is a kinda key word here. If that meant that The Bush Recession would most likely have become The Bush Depression then doing something was critically important.
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I fail to see a problem with letting the market actually correct itself. Propping up bubble after bubble is not exactly of a model of economic sustainability in my opinion. Perhaps what is needed in this country to truly get us on an path to economic stability is a depression.

And that's what many many experts and people in both the Bush and later Obama administration felt was very possible.
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I think they were wrong.

Coming out of something this bad takes time and there's always a chance of a somewhat common double dip recession if you don't continue programs long enough for various economic factors to stabilize.

Jobs are what is still lacking and that's what a Jobs Bill targets to address. If they can be green jobs to me that's just an added benefit. I'm for a cleaner environment and things like higher mileage cars.
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When will the spending stop? TARP has become a slush fund to be used for every purpose other than what it was intended for. We cannot maintain these levels of government spending indefinitely, and typically government spending rarely goes away.
 
BigRob said:
My point is just that if we are actually recovering (as many claim) why do we continue to need all this government stimulus.
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What a great-argument for not paying-off a credit-card balance....and, merely make the minimum-monthly-payments, instead.

:rolleyes:​
 
BigRob said:
I fail to see a problem with letting the market actually correct itself. Propping up bubble after bubble is not exactly of a model of economic sustainability in my opinion. Perhaps what is needed in this country to truly get us on an path to economic stability is a depression.
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A "conservative"....encouraging anarchy.

Whatta great-idea.

:rolleyes:

I'm sure China would appreciate such a market-correction.

It'll help them catch-up to the rest o' the World's markets.
​
 
Mr. Shaman said:
What a great-argument for not paying-off a credit-card balance....and, merely make the minimum-monthly-payments, instead.

:rolleyes:​
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What... the programs I just said we ought to end is essentially government borrowing... aka, adding more debt to the credit card.
 
Mr. Shaman said:
A "conservative"....encouraging anarchy.

Whatta great-idea.

:rolleyes:​
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How did I "encourage anarchy?"

I'm sure China would appreciate such a market-correction.

It'll help them catch-up to the rest o' the World's markets.
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As it is, China already devalues their currency and violates tons of WTO agreements. The Chinese economy is absolutely forming a bubble, and they will have a correction, and when they do, expect yet another one here.
 
BigRob said:
... so you admit you oppose capitalism?
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....VOID of any-and-all Regulations (like Gramm pushed)?

You BET!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why don't you take your sophomoric/circular-arguments & pack 'em?

You don't impress me, one bit.

Your John-Wayne-style logic is tiring.​
 
Mr. Shaman said:
....VOID of any-and-all Regulations (like Gramm pushed)?

You BET!!!!!!!!!!!!!​
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First of all, you gloss over most of what Gramm wanted in the banking sector. Throwing all of that aside, the banking sector is not the entire economy, nor is the banking sector what over a trillion dollars of "stimulus" went to address....

Why don't you take your sophomoric/circular-arguments & pack 'em?

You don't impress me, one bit.

Your John-Wayne-style logic is tiring.
Click to expand...

I am certainly devastated that I do not impress you...
 
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Obama Chicken's come home to roost oo the new earning season 1/11/2009

PITTSBURGH (AP) -- Alcoa Inc. on Monday reported a smaller net loss for the fourth quarter, though revenue shrank as higher metal prices were offset by ongoing weakness in aerospace, construction and gas turbines businesses.

Alcoa's quarterly performance marks the unofficial beginning of the earnings season for S&P 500 companies, and it can be a sign of things to come. The report was released after the market closed and Alcoa's shares fell in aftermarket activity.

NEW YORK (AP) -- Video game publisher Electronic Arts Inc. cut its full-year guidance on Monday, as ongoing weakness in its game disc sales didn't ease up over the holidays as the company had hoped.

The news sent shares down sharply in extended trading.


Games aren't even selling!

Just wait till the Obama tax increases start kickin in this year!

It's gonna get bad in the real world.
It's called CHANGE!
 
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