Obama Weak,Democrats are in trouble.

[dogtowner]

Would anyone of us be any better off had we just dissolved the Union?

the south would be much better off without the horrors of reconstruction.
the north would have had to return to free market capitalism which would have prevented much of the woes of crony capitalism that was the basis of the Whig platform (the not for publication platform).

both chunks would have continued to interact as.benefitted both and who knows if we.might not be far better off ?

 

[Gipper]

Yes, preserving the Union is an important thing.



I think the finger of blame should be pointed at those who started the conflict....which (and we disagree on) I believe was the South, when they openly rebelled.



Why wouldn't he fight the war until the conclusion? Would anyone of us be any better off had we just dissolved the Union?

Our disagreement on this issue highlights the differences that exists today between statist Neocons and Libertarians. You believe in the state first and foremost. I do not.

I believe the war Lincoln ruthlessly waged against fellow Americans, solely to keep the Union intact, was not only unconstitutional, but entirely immoral and treasonous. The deaths of 800k Americans and the destruction of most of the South was a terrible price to pay. Followed by decades of terrible racism and one party rule in the South.

Your thinking on the war is akin to "we had to kill them, to save them."

And you think total war waged on fellow Americans is just fine, if those Americans wish to leave the Union. That is most despotic of you.

 

[dogtowner]

Our disagreement on this issue highlights the differences that exists today between statist Neocons and Libertarians. You believe in the state first and foremost. I do not.

I believe the war Lincoln ruthlessly waged against fellow Americans, solely to keep the Union intact, was not only unconstitutional, but entirely immoral and treasonous. The deaths of 800k Americans and the destruction of most of the South was a terrible price to pay. Followed by decades of terrible racism and one party rule in the South.

Your thinking on the war is akin to "we had to kill them, to save them."

And you think total war waged on fellow Americans is just fine, if those Americans wish to leave the Union. That is most despotic of you.

took down 40% of the nation's economy as well.

and to think the rest of the world dispatched with slavery virtually bloodlessly.

I can not accept it was worth it as the purported goal was easily accomplished at a fraction of the cost and none of the death and destruction.

but people have been disagreeing about this for a while and there is no end in sight.

and the blood is over the dam and never coming back. but maybe thinking it over helps us to make damn sure it never happens again.

 

[steveox]

I Wish they have this game for playstation 3

 

[Texas_tea]

and the blood is over the dam and never coming back. but maybe thinking it over helps us to make damn sure it never happens again.

What ..... a tyrannical government waging war on it's own people for standing up for the Constitution?

Nah ..... that could never happen again ..... besides if something like that was too ever happen again you would probably see the federal government stock piling a ridiculous amount of ammo and talking about disarming it's citizens.

Not to worry .....

 

[Gipper]

took down 40% of the nation's economy as well.

and to think the rest of the world dispatched with slavery virtually bloodlessly.

I can not accept it was worth it as the purported goal was easily accomplished at a fraction of the cost and none of the death and destruction.

but people have been disagreeing about this for a while and there is no end in sight.

and the blood is over the dam and never coming back. but maybe thinking it over helps us to make damn sure it never happens again.

I do think debating the war is helpful. The Lincoln Myth must be disposed of. Lincoln is deserving of scorn and contempt by all Americans. Sadly most hold him in high esteem and consider him one of our best presidents...how absurd is that, when you consider the terrible suffering he caused...and the consequences of Lincoln's reign are felt today...as we have presidents who ignore the Constitution and rule like dictators.

If we are to prevent another such war, we must come to terms with the Real Lincoln and dispose of the Myth the state has built and promoted.

 

[Dr.Who]

What ..... a tyrannical government waging war on it's own people for standing up for the Constitution?

Nah ..... that could never happen again ..... besides if something like that was too ever happen again you would probably see the federal government stock piling a ridiculous amount of ammo and talking about disarming it's citizens.

Not to worry .....

Ha, I disagree with your conclusion but I really find your humor amusing.

 

[Texas_tea]

Ha, I disagree with your conclusion but I really find your humor amusing.

True humor is amusing when there is always an element of truth to it.

So, tell ... which part do you disagree with on my "conclusion"?

 

[Dr.Who]

True humor is amusing when there is always an element of truth to it.

So, tell ... which part do you disagree with on my "conclusion"?

I think that that the stockpiling of ammo is not a plan to disarm the American people. It is more likely to be budget politics.

 

[dogtowner]

What ..... a tyrannical government waging war on it's own people for standing up for the Constitution?

Nah ..... that could never happen again ..... besides if something like that was too ever happen again you would probably see the federal government stock piling a ridiculous amount of ammo and talking about disarming it's citizens.

Not to worry .....

dont forget the tanks...

i wonder why noone is connecting the dots between these actions and BO saying he.wanted a civilian.force with all the caoabilities of the militsry ? lefties poh pohed it at that time but with military weaponry calvery and air support (drones) its all come to pass.

why do you suppose i started rereading 1984 ? wanted to refresh my memory for whats coming next ? ; )

 

[Gipper]

took down 40% of the nation's economy as well.

and to think the rest of the world dispatched with slavery virtually bloodlessly.

I can not accept it was worth it as the purported goal was easily accomplished at a fraction of the cost and none of the death and destruction.

but people have been disagreeing about this for a while and there is no end in sight.

and the blood is over the dam and never coming back. but maybe thinking it over helps us to make damn sure it never happens again.

This from DiLorenzo's latest column. It spells it out perfectly and concisely.

American is on a path of self destruction with it's constant interventionist policies, both here and abroad.

In an essay entitled “Lincoln, the Declaration, and Secular Puritanism: A Rhetoric for Continuing Revolution,” the late Professor Mel Bradford explained the ideological genesis of American foreign and military policy that has existed since 1861. Abraham Lincoln’s “erroneous understanding of the Declaration of Independence” as espoused in his Gettysburg Address, wrote Bradford, established “a rhetoric for continuing revolution” and “set us forever to ‘trampling out the grapes of wrath.’”
Professor Bradford was referring to the way in which Lincoln used the “all men are created equal” phrase from the Declaration and reinterpreted it to have meant that it was somehow the duty of Americans to stamp out all sin in the world, wherever it may be found, so that ALL MEN EVERYWHERE could supposedly share in equal freedom. Hence the “rhetoric of continuing revolution” is a rhetorical recipe for perpetual war for perpetual “freedom” everywhere in the world.” It was cemented into place as the new cornerstone of American policy thanks to the deification of Lincoln after his death, which in turn led to the virtual deification of the presidency, and of government in general. The modern-day rhetoric of “American exceptionalism” is just the latest expression of Lincoln’s rhetoric of continuing revolution.

Washington and Jefferson vs. Lincoln


Prior to 1863, the year of the Gettysburg Address, American foreign policy was based mostly on the Washington/Jefferson ideology of commercial relations with all nations, entangling alliances with none. It was considered to be a virtue to remain neutral in disputes between two other countries. As Murray Rothbard wrote in an essay entitled “Just War,” in those days “neutrality was considered not only justifiable but a positive virtue.” In the old days “he kept us out of war” was a great tribute to any American political leader, and “standing idly by” while other nations warred with each other was “a mark of high statesmanship,” according to Rothbard.
The Lincolnian rhetoric of “continuing revolution,” by contrast, has been the ideological cornerstone of all American wars ever since the “Civil War” (a.k.a. War to Prevent Southern Independence). It is routinely used to disguise the fact that war is always and everywhere a “racket” as General Smedley Butler, the most highly decorated Marine in U.S. history, declared in his book, War is a Racket. War is invariably waged over some hidden economic agenda for the benefit of the politically-connected class. As Rothbard further pointed out, in the past “interventionists were more correctly considered propagandists for despotism, mass murder, and perpetual war, if not spokesmen for special-interest groups, or agents of ‘the merchants of death.'’” Scarcely a high ground.
Today we “are obligated to take up the sword and wage a perpetual war to force Utopia on the entire world by guns, tanks, and bombs,” said Rothbard. We are “humanitarians with a guillotine,” as Isabel Paterson wrote in her book, The God of the Machine. We go about “pursuing freedom and equality” for other people in other countries, supposedly, even if we must kill them by the hundreds of thousands and wreck their entire societies. “The humanitarian in theory is the terrorist in action,” she wrote.

 

[Dr.Who]

dont forget the tanks...

What tanks?

 

[steveox]

What tanks?

These Tanks

 

[Gipper]

I think that that the stockpiling of ammo is not a plan to disarm the American people. It is more likely to be budget politics.

Your thinking on is most generous. I am not so generous, when it comes to our out of control tyrannical government.

If internal government agencies made these HUGE ammo purchases a few decades ago, Americans would be demanding to know why and working to put a stop to it. Sadly today, Americans are much more willing to accept anything the State wishes to do.

I my view, government agencies responsible for policing the nation (not fighting foreign enemies), stockpiling ammo has only one reason, to kill Americans.

Governments love people who fail to recognize the truth behind their actions. They are much easier to dupe.

 

[dogtowner]

What tanks?

DHS bought a few dozen for urban operations a few months back.