Obama wants to legitimize the 20 million illegal aliens - do you agree?

[Andy]

The principle behind executive CLEMENCY. These illegals are DE FACTO citizens. Making their 'citizenship' legal would only benefit the state.

Ah, so your view is that we should just give everyone that breaks laws clemency? Or just this law? Why only this law? If just this law, should we just remove the law? Or just pronounce an open boarder and everyone who makes it to the line gets free citizenship? On what basis do you suggest they should get clemency? Why specifically these criminals verses any other criminals? If economic benefit is the answer, do you suggest no other crime has similar indirect economic benefits?

The prices of goods and services will follow supply and demand -- as ALWAYS.

Ah, another interjection of a completely non-relevant topic. This a Numism. We should put this in the Urban dictionary.

Minimum wage is not something you pull out of a hat, although your lack inclines you to think that way. It is set according to economic realities. And the economic reality is -- people are already in the country doing this or that job for something less than minimum wage.

So, simply mandate a lesser minimum wage. Duh?

Well, normally I would just point out your ignorance, but possibly others do not understand the concept either, so I'll explain.

Let us say that I do a 40 hour week job, at $10/hr. That is $400 for a one week check. Now, $400 is how much I see, but that is not how much the employer pays. This is because there are laws that require the employer to pay on his side of the pay check, that I do not see.

For example, Social Security requires the employer pay in $1 for $1, into Social Security. So at $400, I'm paying in $25, and so is the employer. That means I'm actually earning $425, I just do not see the extra $25. Now there are other expenses, like workers comp, but for simplicity, let's just leave it at $425 a week, just including Social Security.

So I'm paid $425... but do I get $425? No of course not. I don't get the $25 sucked away by SS on the employer side, and I lose $25 on my side, plus $15 for Federal tax, $6 for Medicare, $8 for state tax, and $8 for City tax. So I end up with only $338, and that's what matters right? Bill collectors don't care much that, you really earned $62 or $87 more. Only what money you take home makes any difference.

So the company is paying out $425.
I'm actually earning $338 in take home pay.

Enter the Illegal. Now the company isn't going to pay an Illegal nearly as much money. Can't pay too little or they won't work. So let's pay him oh... $8.75/hr. That comes out to $350 dollars a week. However, unlike the Americans pay, that is all take home pay.

So... the Illegal is happy because he is taking home $12 more dollars a week, $652 more dollars a year, than an American earning $1.25 more an hour than him.

The company is happy because they are paying $75 dollars less a week, $3900 less a year than an American, while having a happy employee.

This is the economic value of cheap illegal labor. You can pay them less, while they earn more. This allows the company to grow. This can be repeated under any income level. At $7.25, you can pay an Illegal $6.25, and they will earn more than a minimum wage American, while at the same time saving the company money.

Of course, as stated before, this point is neutral to the discussion because, once legal, this benefit would disappear.

The solution is to remove the laws and regulations that cause this from happening, but of course no one will buy that.

Perhaps you wish to get your education from a 'citizen', then? Such prejudice suits you.

Oh this is far from prejudice. When I first read your posts, you 'seemed' intelligent. That was my prejudice on you. Now, you have proven to be completely ignorant and bigoted. A know-nothing with a little knowledge, so very little knowledge... the most dangerous type of stupidity. I would go so far as to say Shaman, even though he is a complete political hack that only sees one side, his side, of every issue... at LEAST... he has some evidence supporting what little he says. You never do for anything you say.

 

[uncommanman]

I am new to this forum and I didn't exactly read all 13 pages of comments on this thread but I would like to offer a solution to the illegal alien problem. I made this up kind of quick so I am sure I missed something but here goes:


Illegal Alien

Register

You have 60 days to register with you local police department.

You will give the following:
Name
Address
Birth date
Country of Origin
Entry date
Educational background
Any schools you attend or attended
Driver’s license (if you have one)
Any social security numbers you have used for employment purposes
Employer - Name, address, and phone number
If not employed - Name, address, and phone number of the person supporting you.

You will be:
Photographed
Fingerprinted
Required to pay a processing fee
Issued a temporary photo ID (renewable every two years)

Post registration

You will have 6 months to produce Individual Federal Income Tax Returns for all years you have been in this country.
You must prove that you have paid all taxes owed for those periods.
If you have not filed a federal tax return or are unable to produce one, you will be required to pay $1250 for each year you have been in this country (dependent children under 18 years of age will be exempt).
You will be required to learn English.
If you have been convicted of one felony or three misdemeanors, you will be deported.
You will be ineligible for Social Security Benefits, Welfare, Food Stamps, or any other government sponsored assistance program.

Citizenship

Beginning in two years, you will be eligible to apply for citizenship.
Criminals (as discussed above) will not be eligible and will be deported.
You must have all taxes/fees/penalties paid in full.
You must have evident means of support for yourself and all of your dependents.
You must be able to speak, read, and write English.
You must have a permanent address.
You must have current health insurance.
You must have a clear credit record (paid all your bills and have not filed for bankruptcy).
Those who have met all of the above requirements and have been here the longest will have priority.


Employers

Must have completed I-9's on all employees.
Government issued forms of ID (including the temporary illegal alien ID) are acceptable.
Failure to produce a completed I-9 on an employee deemed to be an illegal alien will result in a $100,000 fine for each and every employee so deemed. Continued violations may result in further legal action and may result in criminal penalties (including prison sentences) for offending employers.



Like it or not folks...we are going to have some form of amnesty in this country. A common sense approach to this is necessary. Just to process the estimated 20 million illegals already here would take 10,000 new government employees five years to complete. Immediate registration is a key. The silly plans that tell illegals to voluntarily step forward to pay a $5000 fine, go back to their country of origin, then re-enter legally is just that...silly. If they have been here for 10 years already without getting caught, why would they then subject themselves to those kinds of requirements?

If we can simply get them registered, at least we will have a start. We will know how many we will have to deal with. If they fail to register and we find them, deport them. If they come into this country after the last day of registration and we find them, deport them. If they are criminals, deport them. If they are unwilling to follow the above rules, deport them. If they are hard working, law abiding, responsible individuals, give them a chance.

 

[Libsmasher]

I am new to this forum and I didn't exactly read all 13 pages of comments on this thread but I would like to offer a solution to the illegal alien problem. I made this up kind of quick so I am sure I missed something but here goes:


Illegal Alien

Register

You have 60 days to register with you local police department.

You will give the following:
Name
Address
Birth date
Country of Origin
Entry date
Educational background
Any schools you attend or attended
Driver’s license (if you have one)
Any social security numbers you have used for employment purposes
Employer - Name, address, and phone number
If not employed - Name, address, and phone number of the person supporting you.

You will be:
Photographed
Fingerprinted
Required to pay a processing fee
Issued a temporary photo ID (renewable every two years)

Post registration

You will have 6 months to produce Individual Federal Income Tax Returns for all years you have been in this country.
You must prove that you have paid all taxes owed for those periods.
If you have not filed a federal tax return or are unable to produce one, you will be required to pay $1250 for each year you have been in this country (dependent children under 18 years of age will be exempt).
You will be required to learn English.
If you have been convicted of one felony or three misdemeanors, you will be deported.
You will be ineligible for Social Security Benefits, Welfare, Food Stamps, or any other government sponsored assistance program.

Citizenship

Beginning in two years, you will be eligible to apply for citizenship.
Criminals (as discussed above) will not be eligible and will be deported.
You must have all taxes/fees/penalties paid in full.
You must have evident means of support for yourself and all of your dependents.
You must be able to speak, read, and write English.
You must have a permanent address.
You must have current health insurance.
You must have a clear credit record (paid all your bills and have not filed for bankruptcy).
Those who have met all of the above requirements and have been here the longest will have priority.


Employers

Must have completed I-9's on all employees.
Government issued forms of ID (including the temporary illegal alien ID) are acceptable.
Failure to produce a completed I-9 on an employee deemed to be an illegal alien will result in a $100,000 fine for each and every employee so deemed. Continued violations may result in further legal action and may result in criminal penalties (including prison sentences) for offending employers.



Like it or not folks...we are going to have some form of amnesty in this country. A common sense approach to this is necessary. Just to process the estimated 20 million illegals already here would take 10,000 new government employees five years to complete. Immediate registration is a key. The silly plans that tell illegals to voluntarily step forward to pay a $5000 fine, go back to their country of origin, then re-enter legally is just that...silly. If they have been here for 10 years already without getting caught, why would they then subject themselves to those kinds of requirements?

If we can simply get them registered, at least we will have a start. We will know how many we will have to deal with. If they fail to register and we find them, deport them. If they come into this country after the last day of registration and we find them, deport them. If they are criminals, deport them. If they are unwilling to follow the above rules, deport them. If they are hard working, law abiding, responsible individuals, give them a chance.

Here's a better solution - get the hell out of the country and get in line behind the legal applicants for imigration.

 

[Andy]

Like it or not folks...we are going to have some form of amnesty in this country. A common sense approach to this is necessary. Just to process the estimated 20 million illegals already here would take 10,000 new government employees five years to complete. Immediate registration is a key. The silly plans that tell illegals to voluntarily step forward to pay a $5000 fine, go back to their country of origin, then re-enter legally is just that...silly. If they have been here for 10 years already without getting caught, why would they then subject themselves to those kinds of requirements?

If we can simply get them registered, at least we will have a start. We will know how many we will have to deal with. If they fail to register and we find them, deport them. If they come into this country after the last day of registration and we find them, deport them. If they are criminals, deport them. If they are unwilling to follow the above rules, deport them. If they are hard working, law abiding, responsible individuals, give them a chance.

I would say every single one has already "failed to register" so... let's skip to the deportation part.

Catching illegals isn't hard. The problem is, we don't try. When you are not even looking for illegals, then catching them is hard. I can tell you where a bunch are right now.

No amnesty is not a inevitable. We tried it once, and ended up making the problem worse. Hopefully most people are not foolish enough to try it again. The only reason we will have it is if our government wants illegal immigrant votes and does this against the will of the people for that purpose.

If they are here illegally, they are not law abiding. They got their chance. Time to enforce the law.

 

[PLC1]

I would say every single one has already "failed to register" so... let's skip to the deportation part.

Catching illegals isn't hard. The problem is, we don't try. When you are not even looking for illegals, then catching them is hard. I can tell you where a bunch are right now.

No amnesty is not a inevitable. We tried it once, and ended up making the problem worse. Hopefully most people are not foolish enough to try it again. The only reason we will have it is if our government wants illegal immigrant votes and does this against the will of the people for that purpose.

If they are here illegally, they are not law abiding. They got their chance. Time to enforce the law.

Let's hope it is not inevitable. As you say, we tried it once, and it was a disaster. Let's not try it again. Yes, it is time to begin to enforce the law, way past time in fact. The problem is, illegal immigration has been going on for so long that it is going to be a real adjustment when the illegals do start to have to go home. Oh, well, we'll get along.

There is one more reason besides votes: The corprorate sponsors of the officials in Washington who should be enforcing the law don't want it enforced. They like the cheap labor. That's why we've been looking the other way for decades while illegals piled across the border.

 

[Libsmasher]

There is one more reason besides votes: The corprorate sponsors of the officials in Washington who should be enforcing the law don't want it enforced. They like the cheap labor. That's why we've been looking the other way for decades while illegals piled across the border.

That's exactly correct. So are the people going to allow this invasion which harms everyone except democrat politicians' election prospects and the profits of firms employing unskilled manual labor? Or are we going to help the whole country by puting a high priority on the immigration of the skilled workers, scientists, engineers, and high IQ people that will allow us compete in the global economy?

 

[numinus]

Ah, so your view is that we should just give everyone that breaks laws clemency? Or just this law? Why only this law? If just this law, should we just remove the law? Or just pronounce an open boarder and everyone who makes it to the line gets free citizenship? On what basis do you suggest they should get clemency? Why specifically these criminals verses any other criminals? If economic benefit is the answer, do you suggest no other crime has similar indirect economic benefits?

You give clemency to people who deserve it.

In the case of incarcerated criminals, clemency is based on the state behaving in a humane manner -- the age and health of the convict being some of the considerations.

In the case of illegals, the post of uncommanman could be a start.

Is there anything particularly hard to understand in this?

Ah, another interjection of a completely non-relevant topic. This a Numism. We should put this in the Urban dictionary.

Of course you can't find any relevance to an intellectual discussion! How can you, if you have no intellect to speak of, hmmm?

Well, normally I would just point out your ignorance, but possibly others do not understand the concept either, so I'll explain.

Let us say that I do a 40 hour week job, at $10/hr. That is $400 for a one week check. Now, $400 is how much I see, but that is not how much the employer pays. This is because there are laws that require the employer to pay on his side of the pay check, that I do not see.

For example, Social Security requires the employer pay in $1 for $1, into Social Security. So at $400, I'm paying in $25, and so is the employer. That means I'm actually earning $425, I just do not see the extra $25. Now there are other expenses, like workers comp, but for simplicity, let's just leave it at $425 a week, just including Social Security.

So I'm paid $425... but do I get $425? No of course not. I don't get the $25 sucked away by SS on the employer side, and I lose $25 on my side, plus $15 for Federal tax, $6 for Medicare, $8 for state tax, and $8 for City tax. So I end up with only $338, and that's what matters right? Bill collectors don't care much that, you really earned $62 or $87 more. Only what money you take home makes any difference.

So the company is paying out $425.
I'm actually earning $338 in take home pay.

Enter the Illegal. Now the company isn't going to pay an Illegal nearly as much money. Can't pay too little or they won't work. So let's pay him oh... $8.75/hr. That comes out to $350 dollars a week. However, unlike the Americans pay, that is all take home pay.

So... the Illegal is happy because he is taking home $12 more dollars a week, $652 more dollars a year, than an American earning $1.25 more an hour than him.

The company is happy because they are paying $75 dollars less a week, $3900 less a year than an American, while having a happy employee.

This is the economic value of cheap illegal labor. You can pay them less, while they earn more. This allows the company to grow. This can be repeated under any income level. At $7.25, you can pay an Illegal $6.25, and they will earn more than a minimum wage American, while at the same time saving the company money.

No.

Social security is a form of mandated insurance. You pay social security, you are entitled to the benefits therein. If you don't, then you aren't entitled. Simple, no?

So, however else you wish to compute your income, your social security contribution IS VALUE available to your benefeciaries if and when nature decides to end your stupid existence.

Of course, as stated before, this point is neutral to the discussion because, once legal, this benefit would disappear.

Wrong.

The existence of 20 million people willing to work for lower wages would have an effect on the supply and demand of labor, hence its cost -- assuming, of course, a laissez faire market.

The solution is to remove the laws and regulations that cause this from happening, but of course no one will buy that.

The only problem that this situation presents is that fat lazy people like you would be forced to compete with people with better skills willing to work for lower wages. And in this competitive milleu, the socially-determined cost of labor will be set.

And you know what capitalism says -- if you can't compete, you're better off dead.

Oh this is far from prejudice. When I first read your posts, you 'seemed' intelligent. That was my prejudice on you. Now, you have proven to be completely ignorant and bigoted. A know-nothing with a little knowledge, so very little knowledge... the most dangerous type of stupidity. I would go so far as to say Shaman, even though he is a complete political hack that only sees one side, his side, of every issue... at LEAST... he has some evidence supporting what little he says. You never do for anything you say.

Of course. Only the ignorant would be quick to point out their own merit -- however misplaced or totally delusional these merits really are.

So, you might as well tuck tail and run since you are obviously out-classed in this discussion.

 

[Andy]

You give clemency to people who deserve it.

They do not deserve it.

Of course you can't find any relevance to an intellectual discussion! How can you, if you have no intellect to speak of, hmmm?

The lack of relevance is due to it not being related to the topic at hand. You're intellect, or lack there of, is why you do not come up with relevant points.

Social security is a form of mandated insurance. You pay social security, you are entitled to the benefits therein. If you don't, then you aren't entitled. Simple, no?

Chocolate is TASTY and Indo-China has RICE. Once again, the relevance of the prior statement and your retort were of equal value.

So, however else you wish to compute your income, your social security contribution IS VALUE available to your benefeciaries if and when nature decides to end your stupid existence.

lol Very intelligent. Tell ya what... When you get a bill you can't pay, tell them about your Social Security, and I'm sure they will let you off. For that matter, when you owe the IRS, tell them about your SS and I'm sure they will understand completely.

I stand by my previous unchallenged point.

The existence of 20 million people willing to work for lower wages would have an effect on the supply and demand of labor, hence its cost -- assuming, of course, a laissez faire market.

They will not be willing to work for lower wages when they become legal.

The only problem that this situation presents is that fat lazy people like you would be forced to compete with people with better skills willing to work for lower wages. And in this competitive milleu, the socially-determined cost of labor will be set.

Once again... fat people is a valid reason to support amnesty. Another Numism.

Of course. Only the ignorant would be quick to point out their own merit -- however misplaced or totally delusional these merits really are.

So, you might as well tuck tail and run since you are obviously out-classed in this discussion.

I have defeated you routinely. So have many others. If I am out-classed, it certainly is not from the ignorant uneducated one I am responding to now. No one could be out-classed by a know-nothing like you. Even the moderator has to remind you of what the topic of the thread is because you always hide behind straw-man arguments to draw attention away from your utter incompetence. Even in this post, you start off on some ramble about Social Security that changes nothing in my point. Why? Because you have no point. Reminds me of that game show "Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader?" For you the answer clearly is 'no'.

 

[numinus]

They do not deserve it.

The lack of relevance is due to it not being related to the topic at hand. You're intellect, or lack there of, is why you do not come up with relevant points.

That is not for the ignorant to decide.

Chocolate is TASTY and Indo-China has RICE. Once again, the relevance of the prior statement and your retort were of equal value.

You cannot find the relevance? I'm not surprised.

Once again:

Your take-home pay is lesser because you pay half of your insurance (in the form of ss). And what do you suppose insurance provides, hmmm? Isn't it a merely a service that can be bought and sold?

lol Very intelligent. Tell ya what... When you get a bill you can't pay, tell them about your Social Security, and I'm sure they will let you off. For that matter, when you owe the IRS, tell them about your SS and I'm sure they will understand completely.

LOL

You wish to blame social security for bills you can't pay?

Meanwhile, you pretend to discuss economics when in fact, you cannot even manage your own personal finances?

I stand by my previous unchallenged point.

You argument is patent NONSENSE.

They will not be willing to work for lower wages when they become legal.

Of course they will. Its called (all together, now) -- SUPPLY AND DEMAND.

Once again... fat people is a valid reason to support amnesty. Another Numism.

What a fathead! Nothing between the ears but fat.

I have defeated you routinely. So have many others. If I am out-classed, it certainly is not from the ignorant uneducated one I am responding to now. No one could be out-classed by a know-nothing like you. Even the moderator has to remind you of what the topic of the thread is because you always hide behind straw-man arguments to draw attention away from your utter incompetence. Even in this post, you start off on some ramble about Social Security that changes nothing in my point. Why? Because you have no point. Reminds me of that game show "Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader?" For you the answer clearly is 'no'.

Was I the one who brought up social security?

Why do I even bother to dignify people with the reasoning ability of an ameoba?

 

[Andy]

That is not for the ignorant to decide.

It is good for you to admit you should not be allowed to make decisions. The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. I applaud your move forward in this.

You cannot find the relevance? I'm not surprised.

Ok, if someone else, other than you, someone remotely sane, can explain to me here and now, how Social Security being a mandated form of insurance, directly applies to whether Illegal Immigrants should be given Amnesty, then I will admit you are right. Otherwise, it is not relevant, and another example of Numism.

Your take-home pay is lesser because you pay half of your insurance (in the form of ss). And what do you suppose insurance provides, hmmm? Isn't it a merely a service that can be bought and sold?

The only point being made was that a business can pay an illegal alien less, while having them actually make more take home pay. I still see no relation of your off-topic point, to the topic at hand.

You wish to blame social security for bills you can't pay?

$50 per week times 52 weeks, is $2600. In 2006 I was $2800. Without SS, I would be debt free in 2006 instead of 2008. This still has nothing to do with the point that Illegals can earn more take home, while saving the company money.

Meanwhile, you pretend to discuss economics when in fact, you cannot even manage your own personal finances?

I'm doing alright. I wasn't using myself as an example. I note that you failed again to respond to the evidence. Or rather, that you can not respond to the evidence.

Meaningless empty ramblings removed.
You really are worthless Nummy. You can't make logical answer, can't respond to evidence, yet you keep running that hot air onto this forum. Do you ever have a point?

 

[Jarlaxle]

It's time to close the borders. Wall off Mexico. Round up the illegals, ship them south, get them working on the wall. When it's done, deport them. It is long past time to stop the invasion.

 

[numinus]

It is good for you to admit you should not be allowed to make decisions. The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. I applaud your move forward in this.

LOL.

The truly insane, invariably, is unaware that he is insane.

Ok, if someone else, other than you, someone remotely sane, can explain to me here and now, how Social Security being a mandated form of insurance, directly applies to whether Illegal Immigrants should be given Amnesty, then I will admit you are right. Otherwise, it is not relevant, and another example of Numism.

You brought up the topic on social security and now you want to blame me for its irrelevance???

What next -- chocolates and rice???

Against supreme ignorance, even god contends in vain.

The only point being made was that a business can pay an illegal alien less, while having them actually make more take home pay. I still see no relation of your off-topic point, to the topic at hand.

And take-home money is used to buy goods and services for one's self -- including insurance.

So, YOUR particular post is not only irrelevant, but patently FALSE.

$50 per week times 52 weeks, is $2600. In 2006 I was $2800. Without SS, I would be debt free in 2006 instead of 2008. This still has nothing to do with the point that Illegals can earn more take home, while saving the company money.

You brought this entire nonsense up. And now that it has blown up staight in your face, you try some good old-fashioned dishonesty.

Try this on your miniscule, sorry-excuse-for-a-mind --- SUPPLY AND DEMAND.

Human labor -- in your simple-minded capitalist economic system -- is merely a commodity meant to be bought and sold, HENCE SUBJECT TO SUPPLY AND DEMAND.

An influx of 20 million people willing to work the same for less would lower the socially-determined minimum wage. For starters, it would lower the price of labor-intensive commodoties -- especially those that does not require a high level of skill. A lower price for commodities would make the product competitive.

The downside, obviously, is on fat, lazy people accustomed to getting more wages for less work.

No need to mention chocolates nor rice -- whatever you meant by them.

I'm doing alright. I wasn't using myself as an example. I note that you failed again to respond to the evidence. Or rather, that you can not respond to the evidence.

What evidence? Your social security rant?

And you did use yourself as an example before, as you are using yourself as an example now. Do you really need another argument blowing up in your face?

Meaningless empty ramblings removed.
You really are worthless Nummy. You can't make logical answer, can't respond to evidence, yet you keep running that hot air onto this forum. Do you ever have a point?

GDP, social security, surplus value -- you are ignorant about the things you pretend to debate me in. And if you open your mouth long enough, I'm sure more nonsense would come out your silly head.

 

[Andy]

LOL.

The truly insane, invariably, is unaware that he is insane.

Your self description is wholly accurate.

You brought up the topic on social security and now you want to blame me for its irrelevance???

What next -- chocolates and rice???

Against supreme ignorance, even god contends in vain.

Clearly God hasn't gotten through to you yet. Social Security was an element to a point I was making. A point you never even discussed. You went off on Social Security as a point itself, which it is not.

See the fact I have to explain these things too you, prove you are nuts. You have no rational thinking in this whole thread. For the good of the forums, go learn something.

And take-home money is used to buy goods and services for one's self -- including insurance.

Does this change the fact an illegal immigrant can be paid less than an American and yet have more take home pay? No? Thanks for your time, you are dismissed.

So, YOUR particular post is not only irrelevant, but patently FALSE.

So you contend that an Illegal Immigrant can NOT earn $8.75 an hour, and have more take home pay than an American earning $10/hr while saving the company money? This is what you claim is false? Now I can openly declare you ignorant not only of basic history, basic economics, but also basic math. Again, you truly are an idiot sinking deeper in your own stupidity.

Remember that Department of Defense suggestion line they setup? You need to tell me what school you were 'edjamacayted' at so I can suggest it to the DoD as a military target for the good of American education.

You brought this entire nonsense up. And now that it has blown up staight in your face, you try some good old-fashioned dishonesty.

Dishonesty? You can't do basic math, and claim I'm being dishonest about it? This is so funny. You publicly humiliate yourself, and think I'm embarrassed by it. Too funny. Everyone thinks you are a complete idiot, and you think I should be ashamed? Why should I be remotely concerned about the fool proving his foolishness?

Further, you seem to suggest that an illegal immigrant that is earning $1.25 less than an other legal employee would still be willing to do so after becoming legal and owing taxes. One word response to that: Idiot. I'll let you figure that one out.

 

[numinus]

Your self description is wholly accurate.

And your continued denial just proves my point.

Clearly God hasn't gotten through to you yet. Social Security was an element to a point I was making. A point you never even discussed. You went off on Social Security as a point itself, which it is not.

And where have I gone on social security, except as a response to your nonsense, hmmm?

Or are you delusional like libmasher?

See the fact I have to explain these things too you, prove you are nuts. You have no rational thinking in this whole thread. For the good of the forums, go learn something.

So, you in fact, admit that social security was brought up by you.

And from your own admission, it is irrelevant to the topic.

Which is it, einstein? We have not even begun with your chocolates and rice -- an entirely new class of nonsense on its own.

Does this change the fact an illegal immigrant can be paid less than an American and yet have more take home pay? No? Thanks for your time, you are dismissed.

And where exactly have I said this, hmmm? Are they giving you enough meds in there?

So you contend that an Illegal Immigrant can NOT earn $8.75 an hour, and have more take home pay than an American earning $10/hr while saving the company money? This is what you claim is false? Now I can openly declare you ignorant not only of basic history, basic economics, but also basic math. Again, you truly are an idiot sinking deeper in your own stupidity.

Your stupidity grows tiresome. I said no such thing. Point my post out or shut up.

Remember that Department of Defense suggestion line they setup? You need to tell me what school you were 'edjamacayted' at so I can suggest it to the DoD as a military target for the good of American education.

What american education? Are you pretending that you have any education to speak of?

Dishonesty? You can't do basic math, and claim I'm being dishonest about it? This is so funny. You publicly humiliate yourself, and think I'm embarrassed by it. Too funny. Everyone thinks you are a complete idiot, and you think I should be ashamed? Why should I be remotely concerned about the fool proving his foolishness?

I can't do basic math??? Try differential geometry.

Further, you seem to suggest that an illegal immigrant that is earning $1.25 less than an other legal employee would still be willing to do so after becoming legal and owing taxes. One word response to that: Idiot. I'll let you figure that one out.

Why don't you google the comparative minimum wages in developed and under-developed countries so you would have a better idea exactly how much wages an illegal immigrant would settle for.

I simply don't have the time nor the inclination to spoon-feed basic knowledge to boneheads.

 

[PLC1]

When one side in a debate runs out of arguments and stoops to personal insult, then that party loses.

Check and mate.

When both sides run our of arguments and stoop to personal insult, the debate is over, and it's a draw.

Stalemate.