Obama wants to legitimize the 20 million illegal aliens - do you agree?

[jb_1430]

You asked as stupid question. The country of origin thing was fine, except for your assumption that he comes from a "hell hole." The thing about Islam was a bigoted statement. Deal with it.

As were his statements about America and Americans. As an anti American bigot, you just enjoy hearing his comments.

 

[PLC1]

Gangs do not 'move in'. They develop within a particular setting.

The MS 13 developed in a particular setting: El Salvador during their civil war. Then, they moved in to the United States.

The thing about competition is that it isn't supposed to be regulated by the government. Laissez faire and all. And the people who benefit the most are the american businesses who employ cheap labor.

No one is talking about regulating competition but you. The rest of us are talking about securing th borders. Are you ready to argue that the government isn't supposed to secure the borders?

Of course not.

I am talking about the illegals already in the country and doing productive work. As long as american businesses require cheap labor, they are going to get cheap labor, legal or illegal. Besides, the prices of basic commodities are dependent on them being made cheap. Otherwise, you would have to pay more for it -- a lot more.

Ah I see. Once the illegals have snuck across the border, then they're home free. Businesses are going to get their cheap labor one way or another, whether it is legal or not, so we might as well step back and let them have their way. And heaven forbid we should actually pay the price for having goods produced by American labor, we couldn't afford that. It's so much better to subsidize employers through paying higher taxes for social services, or simply doing without. Your position is clear, but I still must disagree:

It is the responsibility of the federal government to maintain national sovereignty.

It is not up to the taxpayers to subsidize labor intensive businesses.

Immigration needs to be controlled by the government.

Amnesty was tried in '86. It didn't work.

Illegal immigration brings more with it than simply hard working family oriented people seeking a better life. Legal immigration could screen out the undesirables, and allow in those hard working family oriented people, but, then, they would have to be treated fairly, as they wouldn't have the threat of deportation hanging over their heads.

You have your position, I have mine. The difference is that my position is tenable.

 

[vyo476]

As were his statements about America and Americans. As an anti American bigot, you just enjoy hearing his comments.

Not nearly as much as you enjoy seeing your straw-man rants posted on our board, apparently. I've said it before, I'll say it again, you still won't understand because of your truly amazing ability to read only that which you want to - I love America, as much if not more so than you do.

Grow up already.

 

[jb_1430]

Not nearly as much as you enjoy seeing your straw-man rants posted on our board, apparently. I've said it before, I'll say it again, you still won't understand because of your truly amazing ability to read only that which you want to - I love America, as much if not more so than you do.

Grow up already.

Based upon the absence of any response fom you regarding his comments about America, and your response to my question suggesting an Islamic attitude, it would seem your love for Islam far exceeds any sentiment you have for America.

 

[vyo476]

Based upon the absence of any response fom you regarding his comments about America, and your response to my question suggesting an Islamic attitude, it would seem your love for Islam far exceeds any sentiment you have for America.

Oh, you are so mixed up.

None of his comments about America have been particularly inflammatory, unless I missed one. Feel free to send me a quote of something he's said that's offended you and we'll go from there.

On Islam. Being opposed to bigotry, especially religious intollerance, is highly American. One of the first things they teach us about in schools in Massachusetts is how the Pilgrims first came to America to get away from religious persecution. I do love America, and I love the values I believe it is supposed to stand for. I'd defend Islam, I'd defend Hinduism (although admittedly I know less about it), hell I'd defend Scientology if I could stop laughing and thought anyone here was legitimately being discriminatory towards them. I haven't defended Catholicism as ardently and I regret that; I was raised in a somewhat anti-Catholic family and attempting to overcome that prejudice is an obstacle I've yet to fully overcome.

It's my love for what this country is about that motivates me to attack bigots. If you have a problem with that, I really don't care.

 

[numinus]

Actually, I was ridiculing your idiotic statement that legalizing illegals would solve problems, but it flew over your head.

Which is PREJUDICE -- since you neglected to give any logical reason for the analogy.

Are we done with the racist crap you suggested or do you need further instructions in the language?

 

[Andy]

Which is PREJUDICE -- since you neglected to give any logical reason for the analogy.

Are we done with the racist crap you suggested or do you need further instructions in the language?

No one else thinks that it's prejudice, but you. Is it not funny that you are the only person thinking this? That is because the rest of us have this figured out. We do not need to have the analogy spoon fed to us.

Again... the point he is making is that the idea of solving crime by legalizing it, is foolishness. Motive does not make something legal.

I'll be waiting for another disjointed response. Something like 'but americans are fat' or some other ignorance.

 

[AmericansVote08]

Ship them illegals back to where they came from, it will save lives

illegal aliens cost this country a lot of money and grief. There is something that not too many people know about since the media does not talk about it. Since 9/11 there have been well over 43,000 Americans murdered, all caused by illegal aliens (Mexican descent). And they are these politicians want to grant them amnesty.

What are these jokers thinking. I just can't believe it. We are in war for something that caused 2000 American deaths 9/11. And there has been 43,000 since. We should deport them all, it would be cheaper and would save lives.

You can visit www.AmericansVote08.com

See what Obama is really like, with his muslim past.

 

[Libsmasher]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Libsmasher
Uh, the point is your suggestion that if illegal aliens don't do the jobs they do, those jobs will go overseas, is bogus.

Yes and no... The point he is making is this:

Illegals do jobs for a lower pay rate. By not having illegals do the job, the pay rate would be higher. This is, on a minor level, true.

That is true, but is beside the point. When illegals are employed, both the employee and employer are breaking the law. The wage is low only because it is an illegal, black market wage. LOTS of things can be cheaper if you break the law, so what? You can smuggle goods in from foreign countries without paying tariffs, and they'll be cheaper.

Further, he is making the point that the cost of labor is too high in the US, resulting in jobs being moved out of the country. This is, on a large scale, true.

As I pointed out above, for the jobs illegals do, almost all non-exportable service jobs, that is FALSE.

Example: GM's Chevy Aveo is made in South Korea (that would be Capitalist S.K., not Communist N.K. whose GDP is a mere fraction of S.K.)

Such jobs have never been held by significant numbers of illegals.

It is a bit debatable as to whether the jobs that illegals have, are the type of jobs that go out of the country.

As I have shown, they wouldn't and couldn't go out of the country.

PROBLEM:
Even if this theory is true, it would be irrelevant. By making illegals, legal, the cost of labor would increase because of taxes and federal regulations that would then apply to newly legal labor.

The only way to prevent this from happening is to leave things the way they are, with illegals working for low wages while sapping social services. Because either deporting them, or legalizing them, would result in increased cost of labor.

As I have said, lowering costs by breaking the law could be done by all kinds of people for all kinds of goods and services. By your reasoning, everyone should break the law. And as I also pointed out, the low price of labor is an illusion, because their costs to society are huge, when everything is factored in (including, eg, their high crime and incarceration rates).

SOLUTION
The real answer to the problem of discussion here is, undo the government controls and regulations that cause labor to be too expensive to be competitive. No one will buy that, but that's the only answer.

You are looking at the problem only from an economic view. There are other problems, eg the balkanization of the country. Want to end up like the balkans?

 

[Libsmasher]

Which is PREJUDICE -- since you neglected to give any logical reason for the analogy.

Are we done with the racist crap you suggested or do you need further instructions in the language?

The last refuge of a lib who is getting his ass forensically kicked is to start screeching "racist".

 

[Andy]

You are looking at the problem only from an economic view. There are other problems, eg the balkanization of the country. Want to end up like the balkans?

I guess I came across as debating you. I'm actually on your side. I was only responding the economic question the other poster brought up. I was pointing out that it's neutral to the debate on what to do with illegals.

I fully support deporting like you. Amnesty is the worst possible option. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[wm009]

Obama is crazy. All those illegals entering the country. Eating up all our resources and tax dollars. It's just another anti-American candidate, and the filthy hippies that love it.

 

[Libsmasher]

I guess I came across as debating you. I'm actually on your side. I was only responding the economic question the other poster brought up. I was pointing out that it's neutral to the debate on what to do with illegals.

I fully support deporting like you. Amnesty is the worst possible option. Sorry for the confusion.

I knew you were on my side - I was just trying to clarify a few points.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

The last refuge of a lib who is getting his ass forensically kicked is to start screeching "racist".

Kinda like the Rights..."liberal Media"

 

[bewitched]

The last refuge of a lib who is getting his ass forensically kicked is to start screeching "racist".

oh yes, you have reached the typical numbius "racist" brick wall. bless you.