Obama vows to send 'clear message' to Putin, warns Trump

[Old_Trapper70]

Well if BO was supposedly "rational" and he flat refused it then maybe some "irrational" is what we need.

Refused what?

 

[PLC1]

Well if BO was supposedly "rational" and he flat refused it then maybe some "irrational" is what we need.

What did he refuse that had to do with energy use?

 

[Old_Trapper70]

What did he refuse that had to do with energy use?

Probably drilling in ANWR. The right wing has been trying for decades to destroy that pristine wilderness. And Prudhoe is going dry. New oil has been discovered. My question is what ever happened to the idea of energy independence?

https://www.abwtec.com/news/2016/10/11/huge-light-oil-discovery-on-alaskas-north-slope

 

[dogtowner]

What did he refuse that had to do with energy use?

Coal. Great discoveries came about that improved effiency as well as pollution. He was clear in his intent to put coal out of business.

 

[PLC1]

Coal. Great discoveries came about that improved effiency as well as pollution. He was clear in his intent to put coal out of business.

Natural Gas Replacing Coal Nationwide

Why?

Price:

The change in consumption is largely due to price, says the EIA. For the fourth consecutive month, the monthly average price of natural gas at Henry Hub decreased from the previous month, going to $2.87/MMBtu in March 2015 from $2.91/MMBtu in February 2015

Dang liberals want to use the cheaper fuel. Cheapskates!

 

[Old_Trapper70]

Coal. Great discoveries came about that improved effiency as well as pollution. He was clear in his intent to put coal out of business.

Clear to those whop don't pay attention. Coal was being replaced by natural gas, and alternatives, long before Obama made any declarations. Most of the coal fired plants that have been replaced by natural gas were not required to make changes under the Clean Air Act of 1974 since they were grandfathered in, and had a 40 year grace period. When it came time to upgrade natural gas was the obvious choice.

So you ever wish you were better informed, or more intelligent? So you ever try to be?

 

[dogtowner]

Natural Gas Replacing Coal Nationwide

Why?

Price:



Dang liberals want to use the cheaper fuel. Cheapskates!

Alternative was what was discussed. Nothing new about natural gas.
But there are new ways to use good old coal that are many times more efficient.
Nothing is cheaper or more plentiful than coal. But all the money goes to expensive solar or wind.

 

[dogtowner]

Some light reading on what's new with coal

http://www.engineerlive.com/content/22603

 

[PLC1]

Alternative was what was discussed. Nothing new about natural gas.
But there are new ways to use good old coal that are many times more efficient.
Nothing is cheaper or more plentiful than coal. But all the money goes to expensive solar or wind.

But, there is something cheaper than coal. It's called "natural gas", and it's why the market for coal has declined.

 

[Lagboltz]

Some light reading on what's new with coal

http://www.engineerlive.com/content/22603

Your reference says very little about reducing costs with coal. It focuses mostly on making coal cleaner. However any process that alters the way coal is burnt leads to less efficiency. The cost of altering the process such as gasification or CO2 capture and storage increases costs because of the increase in energy to accommodate those processes. It simply makes natural gas a better alternative.

 

[Old_Trapper70]

Alternative was what was discussed. Nothing new about natural gas.
But there are new ways to use good old coal that are many times more efficient.
Nothing is cheaper or more plentiful than coal. But all the money goes to expensive solar or wind.

Nothing new about natural gas save for the cost. But Dog thinks that energy producerrs are as stupid as he is:

http://www.oilandgas360.com/2015-coal-v-natural-gas/

Hey Dog, did you happen to notice this part of your article?

"The Obama-Biden administration has stated that coal must play a part in our nation's energy strategy./size] The White House Energy and the Environment Agenda includes an initiative to develop and deploy clean coal technology. At his Senate confirmation hearing, Dr. Steven Chu, the Obama administration's Secretary of Energy, stated: "Coal is an abundant resource in the world. It is imperative that we figure out a way to use coal as cleanly as possible."

To stimulate the kind of innovative thinking needed to find ways to use coal cleanly, the government funds numerous research projects through the US Department of Energy (DOE) and has pledged to work towards advancing clean coal technologies."

Now, what were you whining about?

 

[dogtowner]

Your reference says very little about reducing costs with coal. It focuses mostly on making coal cleaner. However any process that alters the way coal is burnt leads to less efficiency. The cost of altering the process such as gasification or CO2 capture and storage increases costs because of the increase in energy to accommodate those processes. It simply makes natural gas a better alternative.

Yes that's so but that is not the only stuff going. Just a quick google.
I'd like to see natural gas in cars. It's a simple conversion.
Let corn go back to being food.

 

[PLC1]

Yes that's so but that is not the only stuff going. Just a quick google.
I'd like to see natural gas in cars. It's a simple conversion.
Let corn go back to being food.

Exactly. Ethanol from corn is a pretty inefficient fuel. The only reason it's used that way is the government subsidies.

Natural gas would be a good auto fuel. The problem is that there are few places to refuel because not many people have natural gas cars because there aren't a lot of places to refuel. It's a catch 22.

 

[Lagboltz]

Let corn go back to being food.

It takes one unit of energy to create 1.2 units of energy of corn ethanol. That is almost not worth bothering with.

Switch grass is a lot more efficient. From one unit of energy input to the process you can get 4 units out. But nobody is interested in growing that. No subsidies.

I used to get 25 mi/gal in my car. Now with 10% ethanol I get 23 mi/gal. So 10% ethanol in the gas makes my care 10% less efficient. Go figure.

 

[dogtowner]

Exactly. Ethanol from corn is a pretty inefficient fuel. The only reason it's used that way is the government subsidies.

Natural gas would be a good auto fuel. The problem is that there are few places to refuel because not many people have natural gas cars because there aren't a lot of places to refuel. It's a catch 22.

Distribution is the key as you say. Here in Richmond there are places though. The local busses are converting as well as other companies with truck fleets. We have the basic nationwide infrastructure in place just need to push it out to the public.