Never Buy a GM car again!

[top gun]

In addition to what Top said, and I doubt we (USA) will ever be able to get back to this point again, I feel there should be EQUAL trade, not just free trade. I.E. Japan automakers sell x number of cars in the US equivalent to the x number of cars US automakers sell in Japan. The same for cameras, TV's, computers, yada yada yada. China as well, Korea likewise. Like I said, it is most likely a pipe dream, but I feel that would help to re stabilize US industry, and maybe go a ways toward reducing our trade deficit.

Good point.

It's doesn't even have to be exactly equal trade... but it would sure be nice if something approaching a much more level playing field would be implemented. They need some new kind of mathematical formula.

Where they get us is often smaller countries and smaller markets say they couldn't possibly buy as many... say cars... as great big America can.

Well maybe we should start grouping countries together and say... we'll allow in to be sold X amount from all of Europe and X amount from Japan & Korea & China all together but they have to let a similar number of our cars into their markets... "as a group".

The foreign countries "in groups" could then decide just how they want to divide that proportion up.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Totally irrelevant. You claim that they sold better cars... yet GM out sold EVERY CAR MAKER IN THE US. You are being an idiot. Stop being stupid. You can NOT claim they are selling cars people do not want, when they out sell every manufacture in the US.

You stick you head up your butt, and claim others can't see? Do you understand NUMBER ONE SELLER? As in NOBODY sells more cars than GM? Is that too hard Pocket? Do you have a hard time with basic math? You know... 3 million is a larger number than 1.9 million? Here's lets compare numbers:

Is 3 > or < or = 1.9? Which is it? Greater than? Less than? Or equal to? You pick. This should be easy, you know like middle school math class?

So you "studied" cars, but can't do basic math? I'm beginning to understand why people hate car salesmen so bad. At least you are in the right industry given your personality.

Again, bottom line is, you can't claim GM isn't building the right cars when they are out selling everyone in the industry.

go to buisness school....Units sold does not equal profit or best product. get a clue.

 

[asur]

How well a leaner GM adjusts after a trip through bankruptcy court is an open question. So is the payback to taxpayers. Administration officials already have warned that $2 of every $5 pumped into GM might be difficult to recover.

Ie. US taxpers will pay for GM operations forever.

If you care about the US future, you will never buy a GM car.

And if you hate the US but care about getting a good value for your money, you will never buy a GM car.

So there is no reason to buy GM crap, no matter where your allegiance lies.

And I mean crap.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

How well a leaner GM adjusts after a trip through bankruptcy court is an open question. So is the payback to taxpayers. Administration officials already have warned that $2 of every $5 pumped into GM might be difficult to recover.

Ie. US taxpers will pay for GM operations forever.

If you care about the US future, you will never buy a GM car.

And if you hate the US but care about getting a good value for your money, you will never buy a GM car.

So there is no reason to buy GM crap, no matter where your allegiance lies.

And I mean crap.

cry cry cry...

 

[laughinatreps]

Good point.

It's doesn't even have to be exactly equal trade... but it would sure be nice if something approaching a much more level playing field would be implemented. They need some new kind of mathematical formula.

Where they get us is often smaller countries and smaller markets say they couldn't possibly buy as many... say cars... as great big America can.

Well maybe we should start grouping countries together and say... we'll allow in to be sold X amount from all of Europe and X amount from Japan & Korea & China all together but they have to let a similar number of our cars into their markets... "as a group".

The foreign countries "in groups" could then decide just how they want to divide that proportion up.

I really like that idea. We're not forcing any one country one tenth our size to buy more autos than they can possibly sell and we start to even out the trading field. Good post Top! Very well thought out.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

I really like that idea. We're not forcing any one country one tenth our size to buy more autos than they can possibly sell and we start to even out the trading field. Good post Top! Very well thought out.

I think there could be a huge market for Hummers in Europe and Japan

 

[Andy]

go to buisness school....Units sold does not equal profit or best product. get a clue.

Completely irrelevant to the point.

You have tried to claim that GM should have made this kind of car, or that kind of car, or that they should NOT have made these kinds of cars.

That is a stupid point. Why? Because they already out sell everyone else in the entire US. The problem, for those are not dumb as rocks, is that they can't make money on their cars, which is due to labor costs.

"Oh well I'm an idiot, and I think GM should have made the Idiot Car, because that's what people want!"

Again, they ALREADY OUT SELL EVERYONE IN THE US!

You don't need to go to business school to figure this out. Middle school should be enough to figure out that if they are out selling everyone in the US, then the problem isn't what car they are selling. Did you go to middle school? You are not showing that you have.

 

[Andy]

NNNNNNNNNGGGTTTT!!!!!!!!! "OOOOOOhhhh Im so sorry" says Alex Trebek:

Wonderful... idiocy on parade. Glad to see the forum is attracting the lowest common denominator of society these days. Not only was it not funny, but completely lacking in fact.

Key word being WAS

USA Today explains, "Not only was Ford's F-Series pickup, a longtime sales king, passed by Honda's Civic, the May leader, but also by three more cars -- Toyota's Camry and Corolla, and Honda's Accord."

Irrelevant. I couldn't care less which specific model out sells which specific model. The question is, why are GM and Chrysler not profitable? This ranking doesn't mean jack to this question. Moreover, idiotically you point to Ford's F-Series pickup losing it's top position, while Ford, out of the Big Three, is doing the best and is still profitable.

Which proves my point. The problem isn't with sales, but with profitable production. Ford is still earning a profit on the cars it sells. GM and Chrysler, due to Unions, are not.

I'm trying to figure out where you came up with the GM party line. Maybe a GM sponsored site like this one?

Oh gee... I don't know... Where do you think one might get the idea that GM out sold every manufacture in the US market? Take a wild stab... (hint: try 2008 sales figures)

http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html

NAME YTD SALES 2009 2008
General Motors Corp. 578,020 1,049,966
Toyota Motor Sales USA Inc. 486,212 789,448
Ford Motor Company 440,045 733,296
Chrysler LLC 323,890 601,622
American Honda Motor Co Inc. 332,014 487,822

Well hmmmm.... That's odd.... it seems as though GM just might be THE NUMBER ONE AUTO MANUFACTURE IN THE US...

So you can bag all your BS about "oh they should have made car X or car Y" because.... they are the NUMBER ONE US MANUFACTURE.

Do you need anymore help with that? Maybe basic math?

Clue in skippy.... the problem isn't with what cars they sell, nor with needing to sell more cars. The answer is the labor to build them costs to much to make a profit. The end.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

"Oh well I'm an idiot

have to love selective editing,,,,,,


company A sells 100 crappy cars, for 100 each.. cost was 80 each....low sales made them drop prices and sell them for 85 to get them off the lots...

Comapny B makes cars people wanted, sticker was 100 again..cost again 80. cars sold out do to higher then expected Demand do to car they compeated against got poor mpg and gas doubled in price...all 90 cars sold for 100.

What was a better car to sell? the one that sold more? or the one that sold less and made more profits?

SALES DO NOT EQUAL QUALITY END OF STORY .

if that concept is to hard for you, maybe we can find some coloring books or something.....

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Wonderful... idiocy on parade. Glad to see the forum is attracting the lowest common denominator of society these days. Not only was it not funny, but completely lacking in fact.



Irrelevant. I couldn't care less which specific model out sells which specific model. The question is, why are GM and Chrysler not profitable? This ranking doesn't mean jack to this question. Moreover, idiotically you point to Ford's F-Series pickup losing it's top position, while Ford, out of the Big Three, is doing the best and is still profitable.

Which proves my point. The problem isn't with sales, but with profitable production. Ford is still earning a profit on the cars it sells. GM and Chrysler, due to Unions, are not.



Oh gee... I don't know... Where do you think one might get the idea that GM out sold every manufacture in the US market? Take a wild stab... (hint: try 2008 sales figures)

http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html

NAME YTD SALES 2009 2008
General Motors Corp. 578,020 1,049,966
Toyota Motor Sales USA Inc. 486,212 789,448
Ford Motor Company 440,045 733,296
Chrysler LLC 323,890 601,622
American Honda Motor Co Inc. 332,014 487,822

Well hmmmm.... That's odd.... it seems as though GM just might be THE NUMBER ONE AUTO MANUFACTURE IN THE US...

So you can bag all your BS about "oh they should have made car X or car Y" because.... they are the NUMBER ONE US MANUFACTURE.

Do you need anymore help with that? Maybe basic math?

Clue in skippy.... the problem isn't with what cars they sell, nor with needing to sell more cars. The answer is the labor to build them costs to much to make a profit. The end.

It must be the Unions! of course nothing you just said showed that Union cost are any higher for them then ford....and its not that while Ford was putting money in its smaller cars ( euro world car inspired ) and its new Hybreds Escape and not Fusion...GM was dumping more into hummer...the ( becuse with 4 buck a gal gas who does not want a hummer?)

 

[top gun]

How well a leaner GM adjusts after a trip through bankruptcy court is an open question. So is the payback to taxpayers. Administration officials already have warned that $2 of every $5 pumped into GM might be difficult to recover.

Ie. US taxpers will pay for GM operations forever.

If you care about the US future, you will never buy a GM car.

And if you hate the US but care about getting a good value for your money, you will never buy a GM car.

So there is no reason to buy GM crap, no matter where your allegiance lies.

And I mean crap.

Everyone please just take on moment too analyze what asur is really trying to do... because this is the common theme now of the Conservative Obstructionist.

THEY ARE ADVERTISING TO SINK AN AMERICAN ICON AND ALL THE AMERICAN JOBS THAT GO WITH IT.

Why you might ask? It's because they are childish. They are throwing a temper tantrum because the government stepped in and helped the American working class save most of their jobs in this industry... plus save thousands more peripheral jobs in all the many companies that are suppliers for GM.

The Conservative knows GM will come out of this. They know they will be stronger. They know that there is going to be a new outlook to greener much more fuel efficient cars. They KNOW America will flock back to Chevrolet as soon as the bankruptcy proceedings are over as sure as NASCAR lovers love the Chevy bow tie!

But all these things CRUSH the weak failed Conservative REPUBLICANT. That's why they talk against Chrysler, GM and the stock market going back up now @ over 8700 today. All good news is bad news to the Conservative.

Because they can't stand to see things get better... so they rant & rave and hope for gloom & doom... just so they don't look quite as stupid in all their complaints.

Don't fall for it. Believe in the American work force. We're still the BEST! God Bless America!

 

[laughinatreps]

Wonderful... idiocy on parade. Glad to see the forum is attracting the lowest common denominator of society these days. Not only was it not funny, but completely lacking in fact.

There we go, I knew the insults would fly sooner or later.....

Oh gee... I don't know... Where do you think one might get the idea that GM out sold every manufacture in the US market? Take a wild stab... (hint: try 2008 sales figures)

http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html

NAME YTD SALES 2009 2008
General Motors Corp. 578,020 1,049,966
Toyota Motor Sales USA Inc. 486,212 789,448
Ford Motor Company 440,045 733,296
Chrysler LLC 323,890 601,622
American Honda Motor Co Inc. 332,014 487,822

Well hmmmm.... That's odd.... it seems as though GM just might be THE NUMBER ONE AUTO MANUFACTURE IN THE US...

Do you need anymore help with that? Maybe basic math?

No but it appears that you may need some remedial reading.......

I have searched that chart up and down and can't find the numbers you posted anywhere on that chart. I would appreciate it if you would point out exactly which column and which row you are getting your numbers from because nowhere in the GM area is the number 1,049,966, nor is 578,020. The same applies for the Toyota numbers, the Ford numbers, and I guess if I felt like wasting my time on your FACTLESS drivel, I would find the same results for the remaining manufacturers you named.

I can find just as many charts as you can find via the internet to prove my point but you'll dispute it with your dying breath, SO, let's just take a look at the numbers you have and the chart you provided.........


Total cars sold:

GM 2008: 571,838 2009: 316,168
Toyota 2008: 630,095 2009: 387,317

And those numbers you CAN find on that fancy little chart.....

Clue you in skippy.... the problem isn't with what cars they sell

No Beav, it seems to be in your ability to do the math you so highly regard.......

Here endeth thy lesson

Everyone please just take on moment too analyze what asur is really trying to do... because this is the common theme now of the Conservative Obstructionist.

THEY ARE ADVERTISING TO SINK AN AMERICAN ICON AND ALL THE AMERICAN JOBS THAT GO WITH IT.

Why you might ask? It's because they are childish. They are throwing a temper tantrum because the government stepped in and helped the American working class save most of their jobs in this industry... plus save thousands more peripheral jobs in all the many companies that are suppliers for GM.

The Conservative knows GM will come out of this. They know they will be stronger. They know that there is going to be a new outlook to greener much more fuel efficient cars. They KNOW America will flock back to Chevrolet as soon as the bankruptcy proceedings are over as sure as NASCAR lovers love the Chevy bow tie!

But all these things CRUSH the weak failed Conservative REPUBLICANT. That's why they talk against Chrysler, GM and the stock market going back up now @ over 8700 today. All good news is bad news to the Conservative.

Because they can't stand to see things get better... so they rant & rave and hope for gloom & doom... just so they don't look quite as stupid in all their complaints.

Don't fall for it. Believe in the American work force. We're still the BEST! God Bless America!

So true......

 

[pocketfullofshells]

There we go, I knew the insults would fly sooner or later.....




No but it appears that you may need some remedial reading.......

I have searched that chart up and down and can't find the numbers you posted anywhere on that chart. I would appreciate it if you would point out exactly which column and which row you are getting your numbers from because nowhere in the GM area is the number 1,049,966, nor is 578,020. The same applies for the Toyota numbers, the Ford numbers, and I guess if I felt like wasting my time on your FACTLESS drivel, I would find the same results for the remaining manufacturers you named.

I can find just as many charts as you can find via the internet to prove my point but you'll dispute it with your dying breath, SO, let's just take a look at the numbers you have and the chart you provided.........


Total cars sold:

GM 2008: 571,838 2009: 316,168
Toyota 2008: 630,095 2009: 387,317

And those numbers you CAN find on that fancy little chart.....



No Beav, it seems to be in your ability to do the math you so highly regard.......

Here endeth thy lesson







So true......

its ok, real sales date, Andy still could not understand what they meant.

 

[top gun]

There we go, I knew the insults would fly sooner or later.....




No but it appears that you may need some remedial reading.......

I have searched that chart up and down and can't find the numbers you posted anywhere on that chart. I would appreciate it if you would point out exactly which column and which row you are getting your numbers from because nowhere in the GM area is the number 1,049,966, nor is 578,020. The same applies for the Toyota numbers, the Ford numbers, and I guess if I felt like wasting my time on your FACTLESS drivel, I would find the same results for the remaining manufacturers you named.

I can find just as many charts as you can find via the internet to prove my point but you'll dispute it with your dying breath, SO, let's just take a look at the numbers you have and the chart you provided.........


Total cars sold:

GM 2008: 571,838 2009: 316,168
Toyota 2008: 630,095 2009: 387,317

And those numbers you CAN find on that fancy little chart.....



No Beav, it seems to be in your ability to do the math you so highly regard.......

Here endeth thy lesson

Don't mix reality in with your posts... it only angers & confuses 'em.

But from those of us not wanting America to fail... we appreciate your posts.

Some people just hate the other political side more than they love the country as a whole... sad but true.

 

[Andy]

It must be the Unions! of course nothing you just said showed that Union cost are any higher for them then ford....and its not that while Ford was putting money in its smaller cars ( euro world car inspired ) and its new Hybreds Escape and not Fusion...GM was dumping more into hummer...the ( becuse with 4 buck a gal gas who does not want a hummer?)

Totally irrelevant. So irrelevant, an idiot is the only person that could come up with this.

POCKET..... you still don't get that.... if the problem was with the types of cars GM was making.... THEY WOULD NOT BE OUT SELLING EVERYONE!

"Wah... GM built the Hummer!" Cry cry cry they are NUMBER ONE IN THE US! Do you not understand NUMBER ONE? As in TOP SELLING MANUFACTURE.

"WAH HUMMER! WAH! CRY HUMMER!"
Look at your post sparky. You come across more stupid by the second.
(whimper, whine) "But but... Hummer!"
Forest Gump could figure out that if they are out selling EVERYONE, then the type of cars they are selling isn't the problem. Are you less intelligent than Forest Gump?

Momma always tol me, GM must be selling the right cars, if they sell more than anyone...

Can you handle that sparky? Need some help with this? Need Forest to come over and educate you?

Moreover, maybe you missed it, but Ford has done some massive restructuring, and had done a lot to cut labor costs. In 2006 Ford shed 1/3 or it's work force. It cut deals with the Unions to reduce cost. In 2009, it signed an agreement with the Unions to trade nearly $10 billion in retired worker pension/medical payments (which it never should have agreed to anyway) for stock options instead.

Moreover, it closed down dozens of US plants, in favor of Canadian plants that have lower labor costs. Mainly due to government funded health care. Socialized care is great for business, horrible for patients, but great for business.

So yeah, Ford is surviving because they have reduced labor costs.