Lib Challenge - How does raising taxes help?

[Unite Our Nation]

"Bringing universal health care will stimulate the economy at its roots and make americans, who deserve to be healthy and free of worry of financial ruin when and not if they get sick, affordable again for industry to stay competitive on a world market"


Give us ONE COUNTRY that has national health care that has a stronger economy than we do! JUST ONE.

France, Canada, Costa Rica just to name a few are witnessing the biggest economy issues (even prior to September) that they have in their entire HISTORY thanks to national healthcare!!!

Have you been to any of these countries and spoken PERSONALLY to doctors and nurses??? I have.

National healthcare turns into a government f*ck fest. Give us one example of a government system that works better than private sector.

I'd gotta hear the response to this!

 

[Sihouette]

You have this belief that we don't pay enough taxes. How many times have you looked at your check and said "Wow, I need to pay more" ?

Hmmm....

I can tell you that if I got my paycheck and then realized that I could cover each member of my family's total 100% zero-deductable healthcare insurance for under $50 a head, I'd think I'd gotten a raise that doubled my salary..

I know how to do math. Do you?

And you're ignoring another important factor: the retooling of the american worker as more desireable to industry. All thing$ flow from Joe The Plumber's ability to buy things and pay his mortgage. With more Joes employed, what do you think will happen to the economy?

Thaaaats right.... Do the math... Universal health care add$ up pretty fast.

 

[GenSeneca]

Hmmm....

I can tell you that if I got my paycheck and then realized that I could cover each member of my family's total 100% zero-deductable healthcare insurance for under $50 a head, I'd think I'd gotten a raise that doubled my salary..

I know how to do math. Do you?

And you're ignoring another important factor: the retooling of the american worker as more desireable to industry. All thing$ flow from Joe The Plumber's ability to buy things and pay his mortgage. With more Joes employed, what do you think will happen to the economy?

Thaaaats right.... Do the math... Universal health care add$ up pretty fast.

I get paid weekly... $50 per paycheck would be $200 a month.

After checking for Health Insurance in my area, here's what I came up with

Male, 32, Smoker:

Humana One: $48 a month

Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Sheild: $49 a month

United Healthcare: $54 a month

Celtic: $54 a month

Aetna: $62 a month

Companion Life: $80 a month

The Highest Rated, lowest deductible ($500), lowest Co-pay ($25) Premium Insurance plan available to me is from Medical Mutual at a cost of $152 a month.

Lets review.... And see if you really can do math:

Your plan: $200 a month.
My Plan: $152 a month MAX

Your plan sucks.

 

[chestnut]

Hmmm....

I can tell you that if I got my paycheck and then realized that I could cover each member of my family's total 100% zero-deductable healthcare insurance for under $50 a head, I'd think I'd gotten a raise that doubled my salary..

I know how to do math. Do you?

And you're ignoring another important factor: the retooling of the american worker as more desireable to industry. All thing$ flow from Joe The Plumber's ability to buy things and pay his mortgage. With more Joes employed, what do you think will happen to the economy?

Thaaaats right.... Do the math... Universal health care add$ up pretty fast.

Employed by who. Remember, not lowering tax rates means less jobs. It starts with people who have money and DESIRE. A desire to make money. They don't mind paying people if they are making a profit and taking care of their families. They don't want to work only to have it taken away. The old saying "It takes money to make money" Ever heard of that.

Your point is weak. Free healthcare does nothing to create jobs. You cannot deny the facts.

Fedex ceo explained it well. They only bought 1 new boeing plane (a plane built in a US factory) If the tax rate was lower, they could have bought more planes (and other services and business expansion efforts as well) That generates revenues for boeing and all the other companies involved.

Why do you think the housing crisisi happened. Let's see.

No one needs houses. so the housing manufacturers quit building houses. No need for - flooring - plubming - cement block workers - roofers - acrchitects - mortgage brokers ... and the list goes on.

The truth is : The government intervened and forced the lenders to lend to those who didn't really deserve to get into a house, and look what it cost the U.S. You think that helped anyone. Most of those that got into those houses ended up foreclosing. That was so helpful.

They should have had to work hard liek everyone else and built up their credit, and not blow their cash. And then when they were fiscally ready, they could have got a house..

Making things easy on everyone makes them complacent and lazy. You can't give everything to everyone for nothing. That is like a reward to do nothing.

You an reward those that bring something to economy in form of jobs and industry by lowering the corp tax rate and giving them incentive to grow their business. It's really simple

Jobs have been and always will be created by people with money and desire. That is a philosophy no one can argue with.

Giving people free healthcare is nice. but it will not create jobs. Never has never will.


When did you ever work for a poor person? How many jobs have you had that you got from someone that was just waiting for some entitiy to do everything for him. Never..

 

[BigRob]

Hmmm....

I can tell you that if I got my paycheck and then realized that I could cover each member of my family's total 100% zero-deductable healthcare insurance for under $50 a head, I'd think I'd gotten a raise that doubled my salary..

I know how to do math. Do you?

Then please justify (with math) the glaring problems I have pointed out in your proposals in terms of funding.

 

[Sihouette]

I get paid weekly... $50 per paycheck would be $200 a month.

In case you aren't playing dumb, I will specify: $50 PER MONTH per head.

AND 100% coverage with NO deductable.

NOW do the math..

 

[BigRob]

In case you aren't playing dumb, I will specify: $50 PER MONTH per head.

AND 100% coverage with NO deductable.

NOW do the math..

You please do the math first... I continue to wait for you to address the glaring mathematical problems with your plan.

Your plan generates $15,000,000,000 a year. Medicare alone costs over $250,000,000,000 a year to cover only 41 million people.

I have pointed out already the glaring debt problems your plan has, as well as the massive waste associated with government controlled plans.

So far the only solution we have heard from you in this regard is "we can bail them out."

I pointed out that the cost of this would be in excess of a trillion dollars in a very short period.

 

[GenSeneca]

In case you aren't playing dumb, I will specify: $50 PER MONTH per head.

AND 100% coverage with NO deductable.

NOW do the math..

That still leaves me with two private plans... 80/20 coverage, $1000 deductable and $35 office visits. What you're leaving out of your plan is the fact that healthcare will become rationed, the quality of service will plummet and the $50 monthly charge will steadily increase.

Please, answer Robs points.

Your Keynesian/Enronian math just doesn't add up.

 

[Sihouette]

Your plan generates $15,000,000,000 a year. Medicare alone costs over $250,000,000,000 a year to cover only 41 million people.

I have pointed out already the glaring debt problems your plan has, as well as the massive waste associated with government controlled plans.

Valid points have been raised. But you need to remember the big picture when discussing universal health care.

First of all, with universal care, the collosal waste of the medicare system will have to be audited. A team should be working 24/7 for six months to find ways to cut costs without cutting services. It can be done. It just hasn't been yet.

And if you look back a few posts, you'll notice I did say that if the premiums didn't cover the costs fully, then Uncle Sam would have to step in and suppliment...but...

With universal healthcare, and workers therefore more affordable and attractive to industry, the economy will be able to handle that suppliment in spades.

You say that coverage won't be as good as what you're used to. But again, if you look back in my posts you'll notice I said that if you want better care, then you just think of the $50 a month as an investment in american society...like social security. I say we strive to make the universal system the best in the world. I say hire an oversight team to do nothing all year long but find ways to improve services while cutting cost. Neither one without the other. Hire some damned germans to do it. They're the most efficient people on the face of the earth. They'll have that ship whittled down to a hull and cutting through the flotsam faster than you can say "boo".

It is a huge task, but one that has to be done. As chestnut says, this is a free society. So everyone will have to wait at a clinic like I do to get seen. It's better than losing your home because you get a staph infection or appendicitis. Waaaaayyyy better. If they don't like to wait in a clinic, then it will be their incentive to strive harder to be able to afford a more premium coverage like you want.

We can have the best of both worlds. You guys take care of your fellow men, and we'll take care of your bank accounts by making america more productive and efficient. See? (can you tell I'm of german descent?)

 

[Unite Our Nation]

We don't have to do the math. It's been done and redone around the world with this type of program! In all cases, the public gets...LESS COVERAGE, LONGER WAITS (they wait for MONTHS IN FRANCE to go to the doctor for anything and I mean anything!!!) A lot of people die waiting to get into the doctor's office. In some places in Canada, they have a LOTTERY to see who can have the privilege of seeing the doctor!!

Has anyone read what has happened to the state of MA

Read some of these blurbs:

"Advocates are pressing the administration to expand the number of companies subject to a penalty for not insuring their workers, a step the administration could take without legislative approval but which would probably draw strong opposition from businesses. The penalty raised only about $6 million this year, far less than originally expected. "

REMEMBER WHAT OBAMA IS SAYING ABOUT PENALTIES?

"Kirwan said the state expects to spend substantially more for insurance subsidies than the $869 million Governor Deval Patrick proposed in his 2009 budget just two months ago, because of increasing enrollment and higher payments to insurers. In private briefings, she has told coalition members that the cost could be $100 million more, according to several who were present. "

A $100M+ shortfall and this is only the second year and it is for ONE STATE, not the entire nation!!! Is anyone reading this stuff?

 

[Unite Our Nation]

Sihouette, tell us what you personally know about other Countries that have National Healthcare.

* Are you aware that national healthcare in these countries are causing them BIG financial problems?

* Are you aware of the lack of care that the folks are getting? I know more than a few people personally in Costa Rica. Anyone with money is now buying their own private insurance (yes, in addition to the other mandated national care) because they can't GET IN TO SEE A DOCTOR. I know someone who had a broken HIP and was told their wait would be 3 MONTHS to get it fixed!!! Are you ready for that?

* Are you aware of the financial numbers and problems that MA is having already?

Talk to me about these issues.

 

[Sihouette]

When you say "big financial problems", do you mean standards of living have gone down? That's the ultimate measure of a nation's financial health. Do you mean that the class of the super-rich becomes scarcer as the middle class begins to blossom?

If that's your definition of "big financial problems", then those are problems I can live with. We all can live with them.

"Live simply so that others can simply live"

??

Nevermind...it's like talking to a brick wall. Greed justifies itself and listens not to reason..

 

[top gun]

95% of all Americans get a tax CUT under a President Obama. McCain is a failure and a proven Flip Flopper. He at one time was a decent guy... but now just a run of the mill liar. What a terrible disgrace to his legacy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8BDyz4J-QA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExAje-uzWKY

 

[Unite Our Nation]

I apologize for not being clearer.

When I state "big financial problems", I mean their countries are close to bankruptcy because of the severe burdon of the mismanaged national healthcare.

There is much more to this than I have time to type right now.

Don't misunderstand. I WANT everyone LEGAL CITIZEN to be covered with healthcare. I believe it is the right thing to do and is very possible IF DONE CORRECTLY. More later...

 

[Unite Our Nation]

Hey Top Gun! Love the name. The two clips above are interesting. #1 is nothing more than lies from obama folks...with no facts to back it. #2 is so chopped up that it doesn't show what McCain honestly said. Don't let them fool you.

Here are some facts for you to ponder.

In Obama’s own words,

“IT’S A TRAGEDY THE CONSTITUTION WASN’T RADICALLY REINTERPRETED TO FORCE REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH FOR AFRICAN AMERICANS…AND IT’S STILL AN ISSUE TODAY.”

TAPE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck

Obama voted 52 times to raise taxes. Additionally, “Obama promises to reverse Bush’s tax cuts for wealthier taxpayers, but the Democratic budget they’ll be voting for would allow income tax rates to go up on individuals making as little as $31,850 and couples earning $63,700 or more.”