Lib Challenge - How does raising taxes help?

[chestnut]

As a matter of fact, We had no downturn in the economy until the Dems took over congress.

 

[Sihouette]

Yeah right, and I've got some oceanfront property in AZ to sell you. "McCain Realty" is offering it for sale..

This thread was supposed to be how raising taxes helps create jobs. Of course there is no evidence to validate this. And there never will be because it can't happen.

So talking about health care is not valid. Is it a problem, yes, but so are all the crooked people in politics and business.~says Chestnut

There is one "tax" that will create jobs: mandatory low healthcare premium. And I've already explained it in detail. Ask any empolyer why they outsource...any one...go ahead, just ask. What you will find is that they cannot afford american employees. They cannot afford them because of soaring healthcare premiums and higher minimum wages. People need higher minimum wages to pay health care premiums that their employer (via tricks like setting hours under 30/week to avoid having to provide health insurance) won't provide them because of cost. So the whole friggn' nightmare is because of lack of socialized health care.

You remove that nightmare by providing guaranteed and almost-free health coverage for the masses in exchange for lowering the minimum wage and you'll find more jobs than you can shake a stick at. Penalize outsourcing and you'll find even more..

We have a socialized military because not being physically protected as a nation is foolhardy. (should we each hire our own armed guard?) We therefore should have socialized access to healthcare because not being physically protected as a nation is foolhardy.

And again, we are now living the fruition of no healthcare. It is the core of exactly why at least one tax will help return jobs and stimulate the economy. If you don't like taxes, then just call the premium an investment, like Social Security that also is mandatorily removed from your paycheck. Do we tell old people to piss off and die because they are no longer productive? Then why tell the sick the same thing?

Challenge met.

 

[Sihouette]

I wonder...just musing here...

I wonder if in all the people who have died as a result of claims adjusters from mega-insurers denying certain coverage...of all those people...and there are many...I wonder if one of them was on par with Albert Einstein?

I mean...imagine the blunder..heh...allowing Albert Einstein to perish because he fell behind on paying his premiums or they decided to discontinue coverage of a vital medicine he needed to stay alive?

Nah...probably of the thousands (millions? Hard to keep track really..) who have died as a direct result of being sheisted by the mega-insurers...they probably all dropped out of highschool.. But wait? Didn't Einstein struggle in school too??

Hmmm.... What precious resources are falling by the wayside by not covering humanity's most basic need?: good health..

 

[BigRob]

Yeah right, and I've got some oceanfront property in AZ to sell you. "McCain Realty" is offering it for sale..

I see you refuse to address the numbers...

There is one "tax" that will create jobs: mandatory low healthcare premium. And I've already explained it in detail. Ask any empolyer why they outsource...any one...go ahead, just ask. What you will find is that they cannot afford american employees. They cannot afford them because of soaring healthcare premiums and higher minimum wages.

So you solution is the raise $15,000,000,000 a year to pay for the healthcare of the entire country? Further, keep in mind that when the government spends, it first must borrow. That is the fatal flaw in the logic of Keynesian economics. So, we rake up over $200,000,000,000 a year in deficits from your plan that the government must take over. How are they supposed to pay for that? If they enact a "bailout" it will be simply borrowed from the taxpayer, and it is on par with a $200,000,000,000 tax increase every year just to cover healthcare, not to mention the rest of the government's spending.

People need higher minimum wages to pay health care premiums that their employer (via tricks like setting hours under 30/week to avoid having to provide health insurance) won't provide them because of cost. So the whole friggn' nightmare is because of lack of socialized health care.

Again, if the employer does not cover it, and the government does, how will it be paid for?

You remove that nightmare by providing guaranteed and almost-free health coverage for the masses in exchange for lowering the minimum wage and you'll find more jobs than you can shake a stick at. Penalize outsourcing and you'll find even more..

What you will also find is hundreds of billions of dollars that the government must somehow pay for. How do you propose this happens?

We have a socialized military because not being physically protected as a nation is foolhardy. (should we each hire our own armed guard?) We therefore should have socialized access to healthcare because not being physically protected as a nation is foolhardy.

To use this logic we should have socialized everything. The government fund the military, therefore the government should find you a wife too. The logic is not there.

And again, we are now living the fruition of no healthcare. It is the core of exactly why at least one tax will help return jobs and stimulate the economy. If you don't like taxes, then just call the premium an investment, like Social Security that also is mandatorily removed from your paycheck. Do we tell old people to piss off and die because they are no longer productive? Then why tell the sick the same thing?

Challenge met.

You do not stimulate the economy by ensuring that a program will be over $200,000,000,000 short every year for forever.

To enact your program, the cost people must pay has to be much higher than you are advocating.

 

[BigRob]

I wonder...just musing here...

I wonder if in all the people who have died as a result of claims adjusters from mega-insurers denying certain coverage...of all those people...and there are many...I wonder if one of them was on par with Albert Einstein?

I mean...imagine the blunder..heh...allowing Albert Einstein to perish because he fell behind on paying his premiums or they decided to discontinue coverage of a vital medicine he needed to stay alive?

Nah...probably of the thousands (millions? Hard to keep track really..) who have died as a direct result of being sheisted by the mega-insurers...they probably all dropped out of highschool.. But wait? Didn't Einstein struggle in school too??

Hmmm.... What precious resources are falling by the wayside by not covering humanity's most basic need?: good health..

Interesting question, maybe I should ask the same about the 50,000,000 babies that have been aborted in the United States. That is 50,000,000 confirmed dead (Alan Guttmacher Institute) as opposed to the musings of a few thousand who perhaps died due to an insurance company.

Losing precious resources indeed.

 

[Sihouette]

Oh...lol..OK...I get it. You want to save the babies, just not give them full educational opportunities or healthcare once they get past the cute stage and start growing backhair?

Hypocrites don't impress me. I nailed it. Health care tax would create jobs in the US and not in insignificant numbers either.

Challenge met.

 

[BigRob]

Oh...lol..OK...I get it. You want to save the babies, just not give them full educational opportunities or healthcare once they get past the cute stage and start growing backhair?

Hypocrites don't impress me. I nailed it. Health care tax would create jobs in the US and not in insignificant numbers either.

Challenge met.

I again see you ignore the number problem with your healthcare ideas.

As for the abortion ideas, since we apparently are just throwing out hypotheticals, I do not see why my hypothetical is less legitimate than yours.

On the fact side of issues, you continually refuse to address the glaring funding problems your healthcare ideas present. Please do so in your next response.

 

[chestnut]

Employers offer healthcare as a way to compete to get the best employees. It is not something that is mandated. It should not be mandated. Those companies that choose to offer it do so because they know it will aid them in keeping and retaining employees.

Obama wants to force employers to sign on to their program. That is going to put a lot of people out of jobs for those employers that do not or cannot afford to join the program.

Besides, it is not a tax cut. Since when is providing healthcare a tax cut. Health care is a benefit from employers.

I do not have employer based health care. As a matter of fact, I pay less than the employer based plan. There are other ways to get non employer based health care. Ever heard of an MSA.

 

[Sihouette]

So employees will (rightly) demand higher wages to cover their own outrageous healthcare premiums. And again we've priced the american worker right out of a job.

Bringing universal health care will stimulate the economy at its roots and make americans, who deserve to be healthy and free of worry of financial ruin when and not if they get sick, affordable again for industry to stay competitive on a world market.

Sorry.

 

[chestnut]

They should demand nothing. If they don't like who they work for they can change jobs. If they voted for McCain, they could get whatver health insurance they choose!!!

But wait, that would put the responsibility in their hands.... that means that Mom and Dad USA won't be telling them how to find insurance.

How pathetic.

Raising taxes will do nothing but hurt the economy and more jobs will be gone and people will try and hide thier money from the government.

Raising taxes creates nothing, but destroys.

 

[Sihouette]

They should demand nothing. If they don't like who they work for they can change jobs.~chestnut

"If they have no bread, let them eat cake."

And hence the reason for my signature...you uh...you might want to study the French Revolution a little bit. It's one I didn't pay much attention to in highschool either, but a subject I returned to recently to find stunning parallels to what's going on today. And you know how parallels are, they like to run that way out to their end..

The word "capitalist pig" comes to mind here as well. What that means is someone who is so out of touch with how bad the unhireable american is, due to healthcare at it's root, that they are oblivious to the true suffering and lack of opportunity, with rampant unemployment escalating, to merely "change jobs".

I have other words for this glaring spotlight on textbook unmitigated hubris, but they'd ban me if I used them here.

 

[chestnut]

So , giving these people healthcare is going to create jobs? I don't think so. Even full time workers at McDonalds get offered health care options. If they took the 5k McCain's health care plan offers they can put that into an MSA for medical expenses not covered. Anything they do not use they can keep in their account and it will accumulate. That's how MSA's work. The money belongs to the patient so they can choose! It is about responsibiity.

Being free means being responsible. If those people want everything done for them, then they don't want to be free.

FREEDOM=EQUALITY EQUALITY <> FREEDOM

 

[Sihouette]

OK, our elderly are free also. Let's turn them out to fend for themselves and abolish social security.

OK?

And the sick, they were "free" to stay well, but didn't..and they didn't save any money from their great jobs at McDonalds (such an incentive to go on living..) to pay for their high deductables, so out with them to the cardboard box in the rain this winter. America is about responsibility...no free rides!

lol...

Stupido..

My wish is that you are plunged into the nightmare that millions of americans are living right now so you can see that the great opportunities you say are out there for the taking...if only people would...are a myth, a mirage and that mirage is disappearing at an exponential rate as I type this even..

Only when you live the nightmare that horrifically expensive healthcare costs have created (the unaffordable american worker) then you will understand Grasshopper..

 

[chestnut]

Again, it's been proven, that libs cannot take a challenge without stooping to slinging mud.

You have this belief that we don't pay enough taxes. How many times have you looked at your check and said "Wow, I need to pay more" ?

My argument has been and is raising taxes does not create jobs. Without jobs theere are not any employers to even consider if they want to provide health care.

But of course, if Obama wants to give them healthcare, and a paycheck, who would mind?

What's worse? No Jobs or Jobs with no health care? I take it, jobs with no healthcare is not an option. That is crap!!!!

And what about all those liberals who blame everyone for their health condition after they smoke, eat whatever they want, and expect it to be fixed for them. Yes, it doesn't matter, they need to be pandered to.

Accepting handout after handout and keeping living on handouts is only going to keep them where they are. It is an enabler. They will never stand on their own two feet unless they realize that the free ride has a time limit.

What about the the lady who burned herself at a fast food restaurant and then got burnt. She did not think she had take any part of the blame for that.

Government needs to be small and people need to take care of themselves.

 

[BigRob]

Sil, please address the number problem I continually raise in regards to your plan.