“let Obamacare fail. It will be a lot easier.” says Trump

[palerider]

Fools comment. If you don't register it you can't legally drive it. In Iowa if you get caught driving without insurance the fine is $450.00. Here in Oregon you cannot get a drivers license without presenting an insurance card.

Get real fool. Once again you prove you don't know jack shit about anything. You just kiss ass.

Driving is not a requirement...it is a privilege which has some responsibilities attached...You can opt out if you like and plenty of people do. Not so with health insurance to which you have no right. The incredibly massive bureaucracy is driving the cost of healthcare through the roof.

A much smarter system would be to pay routine care out of your pocket and carry a relatively inexpensive catastrophic policy for truly catastrophic health issues. Can you imagine what car insurance would cost if it paid for tire rotations, wash jobs, oil changes and routine maintenance? Maybe a thousand a month or more?

 

[Old_Trapper70]

Driving is not a requirement...it is a privilege which has some responsibilities attached...You can opt out if you like and plenty of people do.

You cannot "opt out" and still drive. That is the point.

Not so with health insurance to which you have no right. The incredibly massive bureaucracy is driving the cost of healthcare through the roof.

Yes it is the bureaucracy especially that of the health industry itself. Would argue the "right" issue.

A much smarter system would be to pay routine care out of your pocket and carry a relatively inexpensive catastrophic policy for truly catastrophic health issues. Can you imagine what car insurance would cost if it paid for tire rotations, wash jobs, oil changes and routine maintenance? Maybe a thousand a month or more?

The vast majority of the people cannot afford the "out of pocket" costs.

 

[dogtowner]

With the large deductibles, the majority of people can't afford Obama care. Basically a wash but without the overhead.

 

[palerider]

You cannot "opt out" and still drive. That is the point.

It is a failed point...you only have to purchase car insurance if you choose to drive...no one makes you purchase insurance if you choose not to drive. Not so with health insurance...we are being made to purchase it whether we choose to or not.

Yes it is the bureaucracy especially that of the health industry itself. Would argue the "right" issue.

Thank liberal inspired regulation for that... my doctor has to pay more people on his staff to manage insurance, and government regulations than he has to care for actual patients...and the problem only gets larger with bigger practices and hospitals...there are far more paid employees more people shuffling papers to satisfy bureaucracy in a hospital than there are caring for patients.

The vast majority of the people cannot afford the "out of pocket" costs.

The could if the cost of medical care only covered the cost of medical care and was not more than doubled by the cost of bureaucracy...again, medical care costs what it does not due to the actual cost of the care itself but because of the costs of paying an army of paper shufflers who do nothing more than satisfy the demands of buraucracy. If insurance only paid for catastrophic events, then the insurance bureaucracy would fade away to what it was up until the 1980's which was practically nil...and the government bureaucracy would disappear almost entirely.

In government not even a dime of every tax dollar actually ends up doing some good...the rest pays for bureaucracy and medicine is becoming the same inefficient, expensive, bureaucratic cesspool.

 

[palerider]

With the large deductibles, the majority of people can't afford Obama care. Basically a wash but without the overhead.

Socialization is the worst possible solution for anything...

 

[dogtowner]

Socialization is the worst possible solution for anything...

High deductibles used to be your crap policy option that the kids picked because it was cheap and they ghost ad limited medical expenses. Now it costs what formerly good coverage used to cost and out of pocket is soaring.
As predicted, healthcare has gotten to be a much worse value.

 

[palerider]

High deductibles used to be your crap policy option that the kids picked because it was cheap and they ghost ad limited medical expenses. Now it costs what formerly good coverage used to cost and out of pocket is soaring.
As predicted, healthcare has gotten to be a much worse value.

And will continue to be a worse and worse value...government is only good at increasing its size and everything it touches develops an ever ballooning bureaucracy which costs more and more money to support. Bad for business...bad for medicine...bad for everthing.

 

[Old_Trapper70]

It is a failed point...you only have to purchase car insurance if you choose to drive...no one makes you purchase insurance if you choose not to drive. Not so with health insurance...we are being made to purchase it whether we choose to or not.

Then you must have missed the "opt out" provision.

Thank liberal inspired regulation for that... my doctor has to pay more people on his staff to manage insurance, and government regulations than he has to care for actual patients...and the problem only gets larger with bigger practices and hospitals...there are far more paid employees more people shuffling papers to satisfy bureaucracy in a hospital than there are caring for patients.

All lobbied for by insurance companies, etc. As far as "liberals" being responsible, and setting aside the natural growth of greed,

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...nce-costs-under-republican-plan-idUSKBN16E2V4

The could if the cost of medical care only covered the cost of medical care and was not more than doubled by the cost of bureaucracy...again, medical care costs what it does not due to the actual cost of the care itself but because of the costs of paying an army of paper shufflers who do nothing more than satisfy the demands of buraucracy. If insurance only paid for catastrophic events, then the insurance bureaucracy would fade away to what it was up until the 1980's which was practically nil...and the government bureaucracy would disappear almost entirely.

And more people would die as they were before the ACA. However, name one regulation that forced the medical providers to hire more "paper shufflers".

In government not even a dime of every tax dollar actually ends up doing some good...the rest pays for bureaucracy and medicine is becoming the same inefficient, expensive, bureaucratic cesspool.

More ********* you cannot support with any rational evidence.

http://www.ibtimes.com/rising-costs...median-pay-ceos-health-care-companies-1938699

 

[palerider]

And more people would die as they were before the ACA. However, name one regulation that forced the medical providers to hire more "paper shufflers".

To begin with there is the more than 132,ooo pages of regulations associated with medicare that doctors must comply with...then there are the volumes associated with HIPPA....then there is the staff required to deal with the affordable care act which has added 141,000 new codes for treatment....then there is the requirement for electronic health care records (EHR) which contains 141,060 code sets used to report medical diagnoses and inpatient procedures.....the fact is that government has turned health care from an industry of healing into an industry of compliance and it has spawned a whole new industry for providing people qualified to deal with nothing but compliance. If you want to know why medical care has become so expensive you need not look any further than bureaucracy.

More ********* you cannot support with any rational evidence.

The comment was aimed at government use of tax money in general..not just in medicine..A conservative estimate of the cost of the federal bureaucracy is about 1.7 trillion dollars per year...consider that they only collected 3.2 trillion and right off the top more than half goes to feeding the bureaucracy which is growing in leaps and bounds...then start adding fraud waste and abuse on a scale that large and it doesn't take long before you can start to see what a terrible manager the US government is...

If you had any critical thinking skills to speak of you might recognize that with the burgeoning government imposed bureaucracy that is taking over medicine, a new sort of executive is required to stay on top of it all. The directors of medical facilities 20 years ago would be hopelessly lost in the same positions today. It all goes back to government regulation and imposed bureaucracy...sorry you are so lacking in any insight into business practice that you are unable to recognize it.

 

[Old_Trapper70]

To begin with there is the more than 132,ooo pages of regulations associated with medicare that doctors must comply with...then there are the volumes associated with HIPPA....then there is the staff required to deal with the affordable care act which has added 141,000 new codes for treatment....then there is the requirement for electronic health care records (EHR) which contains 141,060 code sets used to report medical diagnoses and inpatient procedures.....the fact is that government has turned health care from an industry of healing into an industry of compliance and it has spawned a whole new industry for providing people qualified to deal with nothing but compliance. If you want to know why medical care has become so expensive you need not look any further than bureaucracy.

Then name one.

The comment was aimed at government use of tax money in general..not just in medicine..A conservative estimate of the cost of the federal bureaucracy is about 1.7 trillion dollars per year...consider that they only collected 3.2 trillion and right off the top more than half goes to feeding the bureaucracy which is growing in leaps and bounds...then start adding fraud waste and abuse on a scale that large and it doesn't take long before you can start to see what a terrible manager the US government is...

Source?

If you had any critical thinking skills to speak of you might recognize that with the burgeoning government imposed bureaucracy that is taking over medicine, a new sort of executive is required to stay on top of it all. The directors of medical facilities 20 years ago would be hopelessly lost in the same positions today. It all goes back to government regulation and imposed bureaucracy...sorry you are so lacking in any insight into business practice that you are unable to recognize it.

Not my skills that are in question. It is your usual ********* with no supporting evidence, just your BS.

https://www.shrm.org/ResourcesAndTools/hr-topics/benefits/Pages/HealthCostsRising.aspx

 

[palerider]

Then name one.

I just named 4. Medicare, HIPPA, AHC, EHR...and those are just the tip of the iceberg.

Source?

The congressional budget office...it isn't as if it is a secret...it rarely comes as a surprise to thinking people...just those who blindly believe that government is the answer to everything.

Not my skills that are in question. It is your usual ********* with no supporting evidence, just your BS.

Yes, it's your critical thinking skills..or lack of them...Just look back at what you accept as credible sources....You apparently only view accepted outlets which will give you the answers you want.and it appears that your sources are as lacking in critical thinking skills as you. Here, try a little experiment...all you need is a phone and a phone book...

Call up a few doctors offices and ask the cost for a routine procedure that is generally performed in the office (and the dental industry is quickly following this model). The first question they will ask you is which insurance do you have? The price varies depending on how much can be extracted from each person on a case by case basis...this is due to government regulation removing the medical industry from the rigors of the free market system. In any other industry this is called fraud...in medicine it is called compliance with regulations.

Just as an example, the cost of a simple cholesterol test can range from $10 to $400 at the same laboratory depending on who is paying. Prior to the approval of the AHC law, there was a movement for medicine to publish actual prices for various services to allow consumers to shop for the best prices...the AHC law squashed that effort under a mountain of regulation.

It is clear that you will simply reject any actual reasons for the cost of medical care in favor of your slogans and propaganda....so it goes with unthinking liberal drones. It isn't so much that you can't see the truth as that you don't want to see the truth. How uncomplicated must be the life of a drone...don't think...OBEY..

 

[Old_Trapper70]

I just named 4. Medicare, HIPPA, AHC, EHR...and those are just the tip of the iceberg.

Can you read? I asked for the regulation you claim increased the costs, not the group affected by the regulation.

And why do you ignore the rise in pay for the CEO's, doctors, etc.?

 

[Old_Trapper70]

Yes, it's your critical thinking skills..or lack of them...Just look back at what you accept as credible sources....You apparently only view accepted outlets which will give you the answers you want.and it appears that your sources are as lacking in critical thinking skills as you. Here, try a little experiment...all you need is a phone and a phone book...

Call up a few doctors offices and ask the cost for a routine procedure that is generally performed in the office (and the dental industry is quickly following this model). The first question they will ask you is which insurance do you have? The price varies depending on how much can be extracted from each person on a case by case basis...this is due to government regulation removing the medical industry from the rigors of the free market system. In any other industry this is called fraud...in medicine it is called compliance with regulations.

Just as an example, the cost of a simple cholesterol test can range from $10 to $400 at the same laboratory depending on who is paying. Prior to the approval of the AHC law, there was a movement for medicine to publish actual prices for various services to allow consumers to shop for the best prices...the AHC law squashed that effort under a mountain of regulation.

It is clear that you will simply reject any actual reasons for the cost of medical care in favor of your slogans and propaganda....so it goes with unthinking liberal drones. It isn't so much that you can't see the truth as that you don't want to see the truth. How uncomplicated must be the life of a drone...don't think...OBEY..

If you had the ability to comprehend the written word, and not just your junk ideology, you would see that I use many different sources, and could use even more if so inclined. In the meantime you spew forth your usual garbage such as "call a doctor" who is increasing his own salary, or the CBO without posting a link to the story you are evidently using for your idiocy. However, you consistently spout off as if you have some knowledge of what is happening while following the right wing line to the letter, no divergence, just exactly as they have taught you.

Yes PR, there is a drone in this forum, and, as usual, it is you. Instead of remaining the useless idiot you are you might try learning something beyond your limited POV:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/realsp...for-our-rising-healthcare-costs/#26d735a4280c

 

[palerider]

Can you read? I asked for the regulation you claim increased the costs, not the group affected by the regulation.

Are you really that dense? Here is a table of contents for the HIPPA REGULATIONS..not the law...just the regulations...

By the way, this is only about the first 10% of the table of contents...If I tried to post the whole thing, the post gets to long and it would require multiple posts to simply list the table of contents...

PART 160 — GENERAL ADMINISTRATIVE REQUIREMENTS

Subpart A — General Provisions

§ 160.101 Statutory basis and purpose

§ 160.102 Applicability

§ 160.103 Definitions

Act ANSI Business associate Compliance date Covered entity Disclosure EIN Electronic mediaElectronic protected health information Employer Group health plan hcfa HHS Health careHealth care clearinghouse Health care provider Health information Health insurance issuerHealth maintenance organization (HMO) Health plan Implementation specification IndividualIndividually identifiable health information Modify or modification Organized health care arrangement Person Protected health information Secretary Small health plan StandardStandard setting organization (SSO) State Trading partner agreement Transaction UseWorkforce

§ 160.104 Modifications

Subpart B — Preemption of State Law

§ 160.201 Applicability

§ 160.202 Definitions

Contrary More stringent Relates to the privacy of individually identifiable health information State law

§ 160.203 General rule and exceptions

§ 160.204 Process for requesting exception determinations

§ 160.205 Duration of effectiveness of exception determinations

Subpart C — Compliance and Enforcement

§ 160.300 Applicability

§ 160.302 Definitions

Administrative simplification provision ALJ Civil money penalty or penalty Respondent Violation or violate

§ 160.304 Principles for achieving compliance

(a) Cooperation

(b) Assistance

§ 160.306 Complaints to the Secretary

(a) Right to file a complaint

(b) Requirements for filing complaints

(c) Investigation

§ 160.308 Compliance reviews

§ 160.310 Responsibilities of covered entities

(a) Provide records and compliance reports

(b) Cooperate with complaint investigations and compliance reviews

(c) Permit access to information

§ 160.312 Secretarial action regarding complaints and compliance reviews

As to the Affordable Health Care act (obamacare) I am not even going to try to post even the table of contents for that behemoth...suffice it to say that there are 381,515 words in the Affordable Health Care act itself, but there are 11,588,500 words in the associated regulations...the regulations associated with obamacare are 30 times as large as the law itself...compliance with each and every one raises the cost of medical care.

Is the EHR any different? No...again...literally thousands of pages of regulations regarding the creation of electronic health records...and compliance with each and every one raising the cost of healthcare...

And are you seriously unaware of the volume upon volume of regulations associated with medicare and their impact on the cost of medical care? Medicare is the law but like obamacare, the associated regulations literally dwarf the law....and compliance with each and every one increases the cost of medical care.

And why do you ignore the rise in pay for the CEO's, doctors, etc.?

I didn't...I told you precisely why...A person with the expertise to stay on top of all of these government regulations is a very expensive commodity. The hospital CEO's of the 70's who simply managed the various departments of hospitals and oversaw accounts receivable, and accounts payable would be entirely lost in the maze of government regulations today. You seem to be so ignorant on the topic that you don't even have a rational starting point available to you to begin a conversation. What is it like to be that blissfully unaware?

 

[palerider]

If you had the ability to comprehend the written word, and not just your junk ideology, you would see that I use many different sources, and could use even more if so inclined.

Yeah..I have read them and frankly, they are laughable...and the fact that you believe they are rational sources makes you laughable.

In the meantime you spew forth your usual garbage such as "call a doctor" who is increasing his own salary, or the CBO without posting a link to the story you are evidently using for your idiocy.

*****...I am not using stories..I am using the government regulations themselves...hundreds of thousands of pages of imposed government regulations...what sort of person do you think it would take to stay on top of and compliant to that sort of government bureaucracy...

As to doctor's salaries...they are not increasing...you can't simply look at the number on the pay check...you have to look at the debt incurred to even get through medical school...the real salary of doctors is on the decline.

http://medicaleconomics.modernmedic...salaries-inflate-physician-worries-?page=full
http://www.jeffreymd.com/2007/12/08/physician-salaries-on-the-decline/

Here is a forum for student doctors...it is an eye opener..that is if your eyes can be opened....

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/salary-of-doctors-on-decline.345920/

You really are out of the loop...hell, you aren't even on the same continent as the loop. Again, what is it like to be that unaware?