Judge blocks contentious Wisconsin union law

[Rick]

His missus as a connection to the Tea Party folks who oppose obamacare on Constitutional grounds as opposed to financial or ideological interests. Somehow peole like to forget this significant distinction.

Citations? Evidence? Proof?

 

[Rick]

Here's the unfunded liabailities for california teachers' pension fund, and other government workers' pension fund, as of 2010.

 

[Gipper]

Here's the unfunded liabailities for california teachers' pension fund, and other government workers' pension fund, as of 2010.

This is a consequence of prolonged Progressive political leadership. California and many other states have endured decades of this dastardly ideology and now the results are in.

Of course, few in the media will admit this truth.

 

[PLC1]

no, its paid for by the taxpayers. if and when they are requ9ired to contribute to it's purchase, that money originates with the taxpayers too.

By that logic, anything that any teacher, cop, or firefighter buys is bought by tax money. if they have lunch at Mickey D's, then the taxpayer is supporting that chain. If they get together for a beer after work, then the taxpayers are buying their beer. That argument is absurd.

So of that 300k, teacher gets about 100k in total compensation + actual cost to operate the room (maintenance, electricity, books etc). that leaves 200k. we'll ssay another 100k goes to school staff and physical poant athletics and such. And the remaining 100k and taht s100k from ALL classes, is lost in central administration. Whats wrong wit this picture ?

What's wrong with a 33% overhead? Surely, that's a rhetorical question.

 

[dogtowner]

Citations? Evidence? Proof?

Of what ? I was not aware that her ties were in dispute. That is not the point though. The point is that HER ties (not his) are being compared to Kagan's ties to litigation SHE actual did herself.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Let's hear your evidence that Thomas is biased in any previous decisions. You also haven't presented any evidence (from a credible, reliable, competent source - not huffington post ) about his wife's activities. Also, there has to be a STRONG showing of bias in the case of the unique USSC - an unwarranted recusal there can utterly distort US policies and harm a large number of people for a long time, whereas low-level wisconsin judges are a dime a dozen and can easily be substituted. A recusal at the USSC in the current era is especially bad, because of obozo's incompetent appointments including at least one anti-white racist.

in other words your not going to say becuse you know it makes you look bad.

his wife works for a group promoting the overturning of the bill...she makes a paycheck from that company....if you just chose to ignore the source becuse you don't like it...thats not my problem...

And to make it simpe...IF the facts as I stated are true...should he Recuse himself.

Now dance more, I know you will. Its a pretty damn easy question.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

I posted a quote from the constitution. I would add that the constitution is a law. It says that the house gets to decide what penalties get meted out. There is no limit on what the penalties might be. It says that the police are allowed to go get the congressmen who did not show up. And reading in the newspapers we have learned that the name of the charges would be contempt of senate and that when the police picked up the missing congressmen it would be an arrest.

I don't see how anyone could argue that going against the constitutional law, getting picked up and arrested by police, being charged with contempt of senate, and being given a punishment to be decided by the house could be anything other than breaking the law.

the Constitution states only that the Government can Compel. it pushes punishment off to senate rules...Senate rules are not laws...

Do you believe that any time a Senator does not vote they break the law then? If so I can't wait for a Dem Gov, wait till a few republicans are out of time...calla vote...give 2 hours notice...and if they are not there...have them dragged in by the cops.

Also some have suggested going after Walker for misuse of funds for even sending police to get them...Rather then saying what walker did..as reported by the news...why don't you show me where in the WI Rules does it say anything about them being able to be arrested?

Also on a note...they where found in contempt of senate rules ( also not a law just a rule) and now the WI republicans have said that they can not vote and there votes will not count...

SO before when they said they where not doing there job by not voting...they now say they will be punished by not being able to vote? Meaning that all residence of those districts now in fact have no say in Senate.

republicans are pissed because they took a beating in the polls, more so when they made it so clear it was nothing but a 2012 stunt.

So republicans have stripped away worker rights, passed a Law ( very likely illegally) then ignored a court order and published it, talked about sending in fake protesters to cause problems and make them look bad, and now they are saying that Democrats can't vote in the senate...

I can't wait to see there asses kicked in the next election.

 

[dogtowner]

By that logic, anything that any teacher, cop, or firefighter buys is bought by tax money. if they have lunch at Mickey D's, then the taxpayer is supporting that chain. If they get together for a beer after work, then the taxpayers are buying their beer. That argument is absurd.

you said they pay for it, they do not, not even a little bit.

What's wrong with a 33% overhead? Surely, that's a rhetorical question.

Whats wrong ? Whats it used for ? To pay a small pool of people who drewam up ingeniuos ways to spend money on education that does nothing to educate. Hundreds of classes kick in their third and whats the result ? Better schools ? Nope. Beter educated kids ? Nope. LOTS of six figure admin types ? Oh yeah. And their cronies as consultants ? Oh yeah.

Is it really that hard to see why throwing money at education is pointless ?

 

[pocketfullofshells]

you said they pay for it, they do not, not even a little bit.




Whats wrong ? Whats it used for ? To pay a small pool of people who drewam up ingeniuos ways to spend money on education that does nothing to educate. Hundreds of classes kick in their third and whats the result ? Better schools ? Nope. Beter educated kids ? Nope. LOTS of six figure admin types ? Oh yeah. And their cronies as consultants ? Oh yeah.

Is it really that hard to see why throwing money at education is pointless ?

Your like the guy at work who wants to fire 90% of the company because you dont know what they do. Does not matter if what they do is important..since you don't know you want them gone.

 

[dogtowner]

Your like the guy at work who wants to fire 90% of the company because you dont know what they do. Does not matter if what they do is important..since you don't know you want them gone.

I do know what they do, that only makes it worse. Does there need to be some sort of central office ? Sure. By headcount that's maybe 1% but for them to be absorbing a third of the allotted money is criminal.

 

[Dr.Who]

Yes it is more generous than most pensions, and it is paid for by the teachers/firefighters/cops involved. I'm not sure how it works in Wisconsin, nor how it is for cops and firefighters. Cops and firefighters obviously can't continue to work as long as most people, and so their retirements may have to be subsidized. Here in California, the state teachers retirement is paid for by teachers, not the taxpayers at large, and is solvent for the foreseeable future. It not too likely that "public pensions" are the real cause of the budget shortfalls. It is much more likely that the (bleep!)s want to use public pension money to help balance the budget, much as the federal con artists sto.. I mean borrowed SS funds to help balance the federal budget.

You are right that they are more generous than most and that they technically come from teachers salaries. You are also right that the states abuse the system by borrowing from the funds like they have done to my wife's here in Illinois.

But they also have promised more than they can pay and it is a large part of the states budgetary problems.

Not only do I understand those pyramidal charts, I also understand basic math. If the state spends $10,000 per kid, for example, which is probably pretty close to an average, then those 30 kids in Mrs. Jones' class generate $300,000. That should be enough to pay Mrs. Jones a living wage, buy books and supplies, and pay for the 900 square feet or so of space that the classroom occupies with some left over.

You are right about the amount paid per kid and that it should be enough not only for the teachers salary but also for the layers of bureaucracy. But you failed to note that cutting the layers of bureaucracy is not enough to save the teachers pensions, make up the states shortfall or fix any of the other financial problems.

 

[Dr.Who]

By that logic, anything that any teacher, cop, or firefighter buys is bought by tax money. if they have lunch at Mickey D's, then the taxpayer is supporting that chain. If they get together for a beer after work, then the taxpayers are buying their beer. That argument is absurd.

I agree. The funds do originate with taxpayer funds but it is compensation and it comes from the teachers salary just like the salary comes from the salary.

In short, the teachers pensions are paid from their salaries. It makes little sense to complain about the pensions but not the total compensation.

I think you were right when you said that this is about the state wanted to borrow money from the pensions. They have laid the blame there because they can connect the dots in ways that divert blame from themselves.

Still, the teachers are compensated very well and it is a place where cuts can be made.

 

[Dr.Who]

you said they pay for it, they do not, not even a little bit.


?

Somewhere on this forum someone posted proof that the teachers contract states that the pensions come from their salaries.

A person in the private sector gets a paycheck and can choose to divert some of it before taxes to their retirement.

The teacher does not even get that choice. They must fund their pension with no choice.

Bu they still get compensated well. Too well. And the states will be better off to manage their budget if the unions are weaker.

 

[Dr.Who]

the Constitution states only that the Government can Compel. it pushes punishment off to senate rules...Senate rules are not laws...

Do you believe that any time a Senator does not vote they break the law then? If so I can't wait for a Dem Gov, wait till a few republicans are out of time...calla vote...give 2 hours notice...and if they are not there...have them dragged in by the cops.

Also some have suggested going after Walker for misuse of funds for even sending police to get them...Rather then saying what walker did..as reported by the news...why don't you show me where in the WI Rules does it say anything about them being able to be arrested?

Also on a note...they where found in contempt of senate rules ( also not a law just a rule) and now the WI republicans have said that they can not vote and there votes will not count...

SO before when they said they where not doing there job by not voting...they now say they will be punished by not being able to vote? Meaning that all residence of those districts now in fact have no say in Senate.

republicans are pissed because they took a beating in the polls, more so when they made it so clear it was nothing but a 2012 stunt.

So republicans have stripped away worker rights, passed a Law ( very likely illegally) then ignored a court order and published it, talked about sending in fake protesters to cause problems and make them look bad, and now they are saying that Democrats can't vote in the senate...

I can't wait to see there asses kicked in the next election.

I think it is likely that you or your sources have twisted words around so that no one can really know what it all means. I think it is possible that my sources have done the same. I can imagine no world in which the dems could be punished for violating a constitutional law and it not be illegal but I admit politicians manage to warp everything they touch so that up truly is down.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Somewhere on this forum someone posted proof that the teachers contract states that the pensions come from their salaries.

A person in the private sector gets a paycheck and can choose to divert some of it before taxes to their retirement.

The teacher does not even get that choice. They must fund their pension with no choice.

Bu they still get compensated well. Too well. And the states will be better off to manage their budget if the unions are weaker.

my freind who is ( though soon to not be) a WI teacher said that they made a effort when signing new deals to put money into pensions and health care and take smaller income..now with the republicans ideas...they would have been much better off just taking the cash...silly teachers thinking about there futures.