Is Western culture being destroyed?

[numinus]

A marriage contract MAKES the partner FAMILY. I think that's a difference. In fact...it was put to a test in Terry Schiavo's case.

I'm sorry but you are contradicting yourself upon inspection of the discussions in the abortion thread.

If a woman's implied right to privacy does not include terminating her own unborn child (at least not in an absolute way), what makes you think marriage gives that right to a person over his or her spouse?

The court's decision on terri schiavo is a more blatant disregard of legal principles than roe can ever be.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

So, you want gay marriages to be accepted as 'traditional' when there is nothing, whatsoever, about it that conforms with tradition???

Do you have any control on how stupid you allow yourself to get?

And if not many people know what a power of attorney is, did it ever occur to you that you are simply incompetent with the way you conduct your campus tours and teach-ins. I'm afraid there is nothing any law can do about that.

What's traditional about marriage and is also true of gay marriage is the one thing that all marriage ceremonies focus on: Love. It's pretty simple, Nums, marriage is about people who love each other making a committment that is recognized by the culture in which they live.

I know that in your religious-based culture this isn't as acceptable as priest raping children--the proof of this fact is that your church has been fighting against gay marriage for centuries while at the same time protecting pedophile priests.

Thank you for the cheap-shot personal attacks, they make you look so inept, if you can't make an argument without attacking the person with whom you are discussing, then I guess you don't have any real argument.

 

[numinus]

It's not trivial, and it's not impertinence and once the person has died...of what value is pursuing it? Where is any compassion in trivializing such an issue? Why should a gay couple have to go to such lengths and expense (if they have the resources) for the simple rights enjoyed at no cost by a married heterosexual couple?

You are going into the nature of tort law -- specifically, why the hell personal injury suits are so expensive. Changing the laws on marriage would do nothing about this, I'm afraid.

 

[numinus]

Terry Schiavo had been dead for fifteen years. It really is that simple. The woman was brain-dead, having exactly the mental faculties of a turnip.

Your unending stream of infantile personal attacks shows far better than I can the complete lack of foundation for your "thoughts".

Same can be said about you -- and yet no one has the right to end your miserable life.

 

[numinus]

What's traditional about marriage and is also true of gay marriage is the one thing that all marriage ceremonies focus on: Love. It's pretty simple, Nums, marriage is about people who love each other making a committment that is recognized by the culture in which they live.

I know that in your religious-based culture this isn't as acceptable as priest raping children--the proof of this fact is that your church has been fighting against gay marriage for centuries while at the same time protecting pedophile priests.

Thank you for the cheap-shot personal attacks, they make you look so inept, if you can't make an argument without attacking the person with whom you are discussing, then I guess you don't have any real argument.

tra·di·tion (trə-dĭsh'ən) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. The passing down of elements of a culture from generation to generation, especially by oral communication.

2. A mode of thought or behavior followed by a people continuously from generation to generation; a custom or usage.

3. A set of such customs and usages viewed as a coherent body of precedents influencing the present: followed family tradition in dress and manners. See Synonyms at heritage.

4. A body of unwritten religious precepts.

5. A time-honored practice or set of such practices.

5. Law Transfer of property to another.

Is there anything in the definition of the word that you can use to misconstrue gay marriage as traditional, hmmm?

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Haven't you heard about class-action suits?

What all your nonsense argument has led to is that you want the state to conduct your legal battles for you? Is that it?

A class-action suit? Is that what lawyers wear to court?

Wrong again, Nums, do you ever get tired of being wrong? I mean you keep posting these piles of rotting dingo kidneys that do nothing but make you look and smell bad. Why? Is this some kind of a weird, Catholic self-flagellation thing?

What I want is for the government to stop being influenced by religious crazies preaching hate and exclusion, I want the government to apply the Constitutional right to equal protection under the law to all the consenting adults. Equality under the law, no more, no less. Unlike you, I am not asking for special rights, I think all consenting adults should have the same rights as written in the US laws. Nobody needs to go to court for this, just strike the wording out of the existing laws that enshrines religious dogma into law. Take out the garbage, so to speak.

Great article you should read, Nums, it's got lots of sources from the Catholic church too, quotes by Popes and the like.
http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/NewTestament.html

Oh, I know you won't read it, but it pleases me to post it here anyway just in case someone with more than 2 firing brain cells sees this post and decides to check it out. Actually, a bit farther down the page is another article about the history of the Papacy which makes for some pretty juicy reading too.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

You are going into the nature of tort law -- specifically, why the hell personal injury suits are so expensive. Changing the laws on marriage would do nothing about this, I'm afraid.

Wrong again, Nums, changing marriage laws would remove a whole host of legal problems that clutter up the courts. Tort reform is a lost cause in the US because there are too many lawyers. The idea is to do what we can today, and do tomorrow what we can't do today.

First we need to get the religious crazies out of the law-making process and then we'll address the other issues.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

tra·di·tion (trə-dĭsh'ən) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. The passing down of elements of a culture from generation to generation, especially by oral communication.

2. A mode of thought or behavior followed by a people continuously from generation to generation; a custom or usage.

3. A set of such customs and usages viewed as a coherent body of precedents influencing the present: followed family tradition in dress and manners. See Synonyms at heritage.

4. A body of unwritten religious precepts.

5. A time-honored practice or set of such practices.

5. Law Transfer of property to another.

Is there anything in the definition of the word that you can use to misconstrue gay marriage as traditional, hmmm?

I said it before but you must have missed it: Love. Read any of the traditional marriage vows and you'll find that love is the central theme--that's traditional.

It's good for all of us who still try to figure out what Nums is talking about, to note that the Num definition of tradition would cover the longstanding tradition of priests raping children.

Tradition for the sake of tradition is brainless. Wifebeating was traditional, animal sacrifice, circumcision, female circumcision, burying the wife with the dead husband... I mean look at history and you can find all kinds of things that were traditional that we don't do now because they don't make sense. Kind of like the religious traditions that Nums is pushing that don't make sense.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Same can be said about you -- and yet no one has the right to end your miserable life.

You know, Nums, I don't think Terry ever posted on one of these sites the way that Jar does, would that suggest to you that perhaps his state of consciousness can be defined as being substantially different than Terry's?

No, I don't suppose you'd be willing to do that because it would close off yet another avenue for you to make a cheap-shot personal attack. Is that... dingo kidneys I smell?

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

tra·di·tion (trə-dĭsh'ən) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. The passing down of elements of a culture from generation to generation, especially by oral communication.

2. A mode of thought or behavior followed by a people continuously from generation to generation; a custom or usage.

3. A set of such customs and usages viewed as a coherent body of precedents influencing the present: followed family tradition in dress and manners. See Synonyms at heritage.

4. A body of unwritten religious precepts.

5. A time-honored practice or set of such practices.

5. Law Transfer of property to another.

Is there anything in the definition of the word that you can use to misconstrue gay marriage as traditional, hmmm?

You've been bleating like a sheeple about Num-logic, pretending that you weren't pushing religion, but right there in your definition is #4 A BODY OF UNWRITEN RELIGIOUS PRECEPTS. And the beauty of having them unwritten is that you can change them to suit whatever kind of snit you're in each day.

Another thing that is traditional is relgious bigotry, hate and fear of people you don't understand. Ethnocentrism is another big tradition, speciesism, misogyny, racism, classism, and--as you so eloquently demonstrate with each of your posts--poor education.

Tradition doesn't mean good or right or rational, it just means that people have done it for a long time. Or are you going to argue that the priestly tradition of raping children is something to be saved as a "time-honored practice"?

 

[numinus]

You know, Nums, I don't think Terry ever posted on one of these sites the way that Jar does, would that suggest to you that perhaps his state of consciousness can be defined as being substantially different than Terry's?

No, I don't suppose you'd be willing to do that because it would close off yet another avenue for you to make a cheap-shot personal attack. Is that... dingo kidneys I smell?

I don't think terry schiavo is as dumb as jar -- in or out of coma.

 

[numinus]

You've been bleating like a sheeple about Num-logic, pretending that you weren't pushing religion, but right there in your definition is #4 A BODY OF UNWRITEN RELIGIOUS PRECEPTS. And the beauty of having them unwritten is that you can change them to suit whatever kind of snit you're in each day.

Another thing that is traditional is relgious bigotry, hate and fear of people you don't understand. Ethnocentrism is another big tradition, speciesism, misogyny, racism, classism, and--as you so eloquently demonstrate with each of your posts--poor education.

Tradition doesn't mean good or right or rational, it just means that people have done it for a long time. Or are you going to argue that the priestly tradition of raping children is something to be saved as a "time-honored practice"?

So, it is your intention that gay marriages be accepted as 'traditional' -- 'a body of unwritten religious precepts' type of traditional?

At least you're mildly amusing.

 

[numinus]

A class-action suit? Is that what lawyers wear to court?

Wrong again, Nums, do you ever get tired of being wrong? I mean you keep posting these piles of rotting dingo kidneys that do nothing but make you look and smell bad. Why? Is this some kind of a weird, Catholic self-flagellation thing?

Isn't that what a lot of people do when the nature of their legal action is the same and against the same entity? And wouldn't a class-action suit be cheaper than litigating individually?

What I want is for the government to stop being influenced by religious crazies preaching hate and exclusion, I want the government to apply the Constitutional right to equal protection under the law to all the consenting adults. Equality under the law, no more, no less. Unlike you, I am not asking for special rights, I think all consenting adults should have the same rights as written in the US laws. Nobody needs to go to court for this, just strike the wording out of the existing laws that enshrines religious dogma into law. Take out the garbage, so to speak.

And the first ammendment doesn't do that for you?

Great article you should read, Nums, it's got lots of sources from the Catholic church too, quotes by Popes and the like.
http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/NewTestament.html

Oh, I know you won't read it, but it pleases me to post it here anyway just in case someone with more than 2 firing brain cells sees this post and decides to check it out. Actually, a bit farther down the page is another article about the history of the Papacy which makes for some pretty juicy reading too.

And send me on a fools errand. No thank you.

 

[numinus]

Wrong again, Nums, changing marriage laws would remove a whole host of legal problems that clutter up the courts. Tort reform is a lost cause in the US because there are too many lawyers. The idea is to do what we can today, and do tomorrow what we can't do today.

First we need to get the religious crazies out of the law-making process and then we'll address the other issues.

Glad to see you admit the irrelevant nonsense in your post.

 

[numinus]

I said it before but you must have missed it: Love. Read any of the traditional marriage vows and you'll find that love is the central theme--that's traditional.

And since when is it the business of the state to legislate love, eh?