Is homosexuality a choice or is it genetic?

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Gentlemen, answer me this: Why would it be bad to allow homosexuals to marry? What are the negative consequences?
Personally, I don't think there are any.......as long as those marriages are outside the confines of religion - with respect to those religions that do not condone homosexual unions. As viewed by the state, there should be no difference in my opinion. Let them marry and enjoy all the legal rights afforded them by the state just as the rest of us do.....along with those other legal matters. Damn it all to hell that I chose not to be a divorce lawyer!

Religion is another matter. If my church chooses not to marry homosexual couples, there should be NO law forcing them to do so as this has no bearing on their legal status.

-Castle
 
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Personally, I don't think there are any.......as long as those marriages are outside the confines of religion - with respect to those religions that do not condone homosexual unions. As viewed by the state, there should be no difference in my opinion. Let them marry and enjoy all the legal rights afforded them by the state just as the rest of us do.....along with those other legal matters. Damn it all to hell that I chose not to be a divorce lawyer!

Religion is another matter. If my church chooses not to marry homosexual couples, there should be NO law forcing them to do so as this has no bearing on their legal status.

-Castle

ABSOLUTELY!
 
Equal rights means that everyone is treated equally under the law, you and she get married and the law grants things to you that are denied to anyone that isn't legally married. How is it "unequal" for ALL consenting adults to have the same right to marry the consenting adult of their choice when YOU have that right?

As an atheist, what is the purpose of marriage law?

You obviously operate on about the third grade level when it comes to your understanding of equal protection laws. Laws discriminate between people all the time. Our constitution doesnt prohibit all discrimination but instead requires that the laws of a state must treat an individual in the same manner as others in similar conditions and circumstances. Boning some guy in the
a s s just simply isnt the same conditions or circumstance. ONLY a man and a woman can produce their child.
 
Now to address the "meat" of your post, what little there is.

Our constitution doesnt prohibit all discrimination but instead requires that the laws of a state must treat an individual in the same manner as others in similar conditions and circumstances.

The similarity is your family is no better than my family, and your family has far more protections. Why does your child deserve better treatment than mine?
 
Now to address the "meat" of your post, what little there is.



The similarity is your family is no better than my family, and your family has far more protections. Why does your child deserve better treatment than mine?

Im single, no kids. And ONLY a man and a woman can produce their child.
 
Actually I must argue this here. If something (space) is expanding, it DOES NOT (via physics) require space to expand into, since space itself is what is expanding, space is thus being created.

Correct.

Don't tell me. Tell mare.

As far as the "universe" theoretically it is "infinite" as far as the layman need be concerned.

The 'theoretical' expansion of the universe through infinity rests on a curious 'quantity' called the cosmological constant.

I say curious because it has this unique property of being created out of NOTHING (meaning it's energy density remains the same despite indefinite spatial expansion - hence 'constant').

And in the real, common sense world, NOTHING, or EMPTY SPACE doesn't exist. Remember that space-time is functionally dependent on the existence of matter/energy.

The thing is that the "universe" spatially is created by it's very expansion, beyond that, no idea, depending on the dimensional theory applied you could simply go to XYZ 0,0,0 and end back up at 10^a, 10^a, 10^a coordinately (where a is the exponential of the arbitrary coordinates given for the opposing side of the universe in which you entered by exiting at the 0,0,0 coord.) Or you could simply cease to exist, though I doubt this, since mass itself creates the space around it, ones mass by being their to observe the location and crossing that threshold actually would create space ;) but I digress this is not for this thread, nor forum.

The cartesian coordinate system you are describing exists only in mathemtics, and not the real world. The closest you get from this ideal is the minkowski space with a time-dependent curvature. And since this itself involves a uniform and homogenous distribution of matter throughout, its curvature is a straight line.

Bottom line - ideas of nothingness and infinity, while helpful in formulating theoretical models, simply doesn't exist within the realms of physics.

You're better off imagining god and the devil, I think.

This is your bias speaking. Plain and simple. Anti-gay rhetoric. Marriage has nothing to do with "motherhood", if you even think that..I have about 30 friends I'd like you to meet of mine who have no marriage and children. To say that marriage has anything to do with children is ridiculous.

What I have said is the anthropological basis of the institution of marriage.

If it is dependent on how individual couples see it, as you claim, then it is entirely subjective, no?

Where is the sense in having the state legislate something that is entirely dependent on the couples, themselves, eh?

Marriage is the state of being a married couple voluntarily joined for life (or until divorce); a close and intimate union.

Circular.

Which should be afforded to ANY two people regardless of gender or orientation.

You need no one to 'afford' you of an intimate union save yourself and your partner. You needlessly involve the state with your own affairs.

The fact that workforce insurers have a prerequisite ALONE should be reason enough to allow for marriage between same sex partners. Any other definition is purely a religious idealism.

No.

It is a consequence of the right to motherhood. When one recognizes this right as inherent in the FEMALE GENDER, the practical necessities for a woman to EXERCISE this right must be PRESENT.

This simply means that a woman's choice is made WITHOUT prejudice.

A woman who chooses to become a mother and is left alone to fend for herself and her child constitutes prejudice.

Not that women are incapable of this, only that it creates a bias to her entire gender.

Marriage does NOT effect the children in any way. A father and mother NOT married can both apply their workplace insurance to their child as well it should be. Now where this DOES come into play is due to the bad insurer policies on many insurers have. Here's a hypothetical that shows the problem with your definition. A woman has a child, the father is no where in the picture, she is in fact a lesbian and ends up in a lesbian relationship. Now she has a car accident and can no longer work and ends up losing her insurance that covered her and her child. Now the spouse of this woman has insurance that will not cover the child nor the disabled mother.

This is unbelievably off-tangent!

The right to motherhood necessarily INCLUDES the conditions that does not prejudice a woman's choice to it.

And so, rather than scream for homosexual marriages, the more logical solution is a legislation that would afford single mothers financial security, no?

Another hypothetical. A woman has a child and remarries, now whatever supposed "for the children" effects that the marriage have now apply to this father EVEN THOUGH HE HAS NO CHILDREN OF HIS OWN. How is this supported by your argument?

The biological father is still responsible for the child concieved IN the union, whether he is still married to the mother or not, no? Isn't that a clear consequence of the family relations that result in marriage.

And if the mother divorces the second husband, is the husband liable for child support?

I cannot see anything that is afforded via marriage that has anything to do with anything here. You don't really get tax breaks unless you have kids, which has nothing to do with marriage itself, as you can get those same breaks married or not with kids. And in fact being married OFTEN costs more in taxes.

Which solidifies my point, exactly.

As I said - the tax breaks given to married couples are there as support for the mother exercising her right to motherhood and the family relations that result from it.

again your supposing something that is completely aside from marriage. that inalienable right is given by biology, not a marriage license. And again, motherhood has nothing to do with marriage. If you think that then you MUST by virtue NOT allow sterile couples to marry.

Correct again.

Motherhood is not conferred to a woman by a marriage license.

Marriage, in the legal sense, is simply a way by which the state recognizes this right and the family relations that accrue from it.

This is stupid, however there is precedence for this. I worked with a man who took maternity leave because the wife had a job that required her attention and the father cared for the kid after it was born. The only maternity leave his girlfriend took was to pop the lil kid out.

Good for him. However, to legislate such a thing and compel all employers to it is absurd, no?

this is purely due to tradition and not law.

It is a principle even the law upholds.

The mother is the first person an infant bonds with - even before birth.

Purely tradition indeed!

they should be allowed, this is more religious ideology becoming law, something that should not exist. notice the locations and their majority religious beliefs.
  • Florida and New Hampshire had laws forbidding adoption by homosexuals;
  • Arkansas, Missouri, North Dakota and Virginia had legal precedences in which courts ruled that gays and lesbians are automatically unfit as parents because of their sexual orientation.
  • California, Minnesota, New York and New Jersey had laws or regulations which specifically permit homosexual adoption.
  • The remaining 40 states and the District of Columbia had no laws either forbidding or permitting adoption by gays or lesbians individuals or couples.

What are you talking about?

Adoption is a PRIVILEGE whereby the state transfers responsibility to parents that are not biologically related to the child.

I don't agree with excluding potential foster parents exclusively due to their sexual preference.

It doesn't mean, however, that sexual preference doesn't play a part in the family environment being contemplated for the child.

Equality is not defective, it's simply not applied all the time, when it very well should be. Women don't get paid as much as men, same education, same abilities, it's a statistic fact. It still isn't right though.

What are you talking about?

I am FOR gender equality.

Motherhood for males and fatherhood for females are naive and fundamentally defective notions of gender equality.
 
Yes, I can. One thousand forty nine legal rights, privileges, and responsibilities codified into US law and granted only to LEGALLY MARRIED couples in the United States of America. Is that rational enough for you? Legal rights! Equality! How much more rational can it get?

The fact that gays want these rights, privileges, and responsibilities isnt really a rational purpose for the government to grant them.
 
Let's just put it out there, shall we?

Is there any really good reason to keep homosexuals from getting married? Can any of you clearly and succinctly come up with a decent reason to prevent them from marrying each other?

Is it because marriage is supposed to be about producing children? Well boohoo, so homosexual couples won't be able to produce their own children. There are a lot of children out there that don't have homes, and a married homosexual couple would be better equipped to care for such a child than an unmarried homosexual couple. The purpose of marriage is to provide a framework for the family - not to create the family.

How truly odd your mind works!

Is there any really good reason to suppose that homosexuality constitutes an end for which the political and social order is established?

It is not enough that the state guarantees your privacy in the exercise of this preference - you need for the state to blow sunshine up your ass as well.
 
Thus spake the infallible NUMINUS--speaking ex cathedra from his belly-button. You make pronouncements but you can't prove them, thus you are one of the religious sheeple bleating in the wilderness.

Have you ever seen people procreate homosexually?

Proof indeed!
 
The run-around was the explanation that you apparently cannot comprehend. Just like you quoted correctly (this time) I was using the term "space" metaphorically to delineate an area where YOU said God's Will exists. Too bad you can't comprehend such a simple concept--go back to Kant.
LMAO

You are using 'space' metaphorically to define an area occupied by will?

And I'm the one who can't comprehend!

LMAO some more.
 
Exactly, Mare.

Jb, Numinus, why don't you just admit that you don't like gay people, or that the idea of gay people getting married just bothers you? Honesty is best.

And that's the only way you can understand, eh?

Putting people in neat little boxes with their corresponding labels.

Gentlemen, answer me this: Why would it be bad to allow homosexuals to marry? What are the negative consequences?

And you are inclined to making laws that are superflous and devoid of purpose, eh?
 
The fact that gays want these rights, privileges, and responsibilities isnt really a rational purpose for the government to grant them.

They simply want the same legal rights, protections, and benefits as heterosexual marriages. You don't have to call it "marriage" - but they have a right to the same legal protections, rights, benefits as heterosexual couples as long as the government is going to be involved in marriage.

It's a matter of equality. One of group is prohibited from marrying the adult consenting partner of their choice. It is like the old laws against mixed race marriages.
 
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They simply want the same legal rights, protections, and benefits as heterosexual marriages. You don't have to call it "marriage" - but they have a right to the same legal protections, rights, benefits as heterosexual couples as long as the government is going to be involved in marriage.

They have NO MORE right to these "legal protections, rights, benefits" than my girlfriend and I do. Just no rational purpose whatsoever denying me those rights, if you insist on taking procreation out of the equation.
 
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