Is a Human Zygote an Organism?

[palerider]

So we obviously disagree but of course since you are absolutely so sure of yourself that means that I am an enabling coward.

Speak of the devil and there he is...I point out that those not opposed to abortion have given up on the biological argument as it is undeniable at this point that unborns, at any stage of development are, in fact, human beings and as a result, they have adopted dishonest, sophist, and logically flawed philosophical arguments....and what is your response?....a dishonesty, sophist, and logically flawed philosophical argument.

You begin with a logical fallacy known as an appeal to ridicule. Because I am so sure of myself you must be an enabling coward. Of course I am sure of myself. My position is, unlike yours, not based on what I believe. My position is directed by little more than hard cold fact, unfiltered by emotion. I speak plainly and use words as they are defined and if others are offended by that plain speech, then perhaps they should try and look to the reason they are offended and not the honest use of language.

You claim that the use of the word sociopath is unwarranted but is, or is not the failure to empathize with a helpless human being and accept his or her death for reasons that rarely amount to more than convenience is just business as usual not sociopathic behavior? Sociopaths see other individuals or groups of individuals as not human and therefore not worthy of any sort of empathy on their part. Pro choicers fail to see unborns as human beings and therefore not deserving of the protection of the law.

By what authority would you have the law changed? Your own or by We The People. I guess you will have your hands full with so many so called sociopaths and their so called coward enablers. Also with this worlds history of seeing the unborn differently than the newborn.

We the people have already decreed that all human beings are created (not born) equal and all equally deserving of the protection of the law. The supreme court sidestepped the constitution when they decided roe by very deliberately denying that unborns were human beings. When ever unborns were spoken of in the decision, they were described as "potential" human beings and clearly stated that if they were in fact human beings that they would in fact, be persons, and that roe v wade must be struck down. Even then the medical and biological evidence that unborns were, in fact human beings, was overwhelming but the court decided as it did anyway. It certainly isn't the first time a court has authorized the onset of a genocide. The genocide that roe v wade unleashed has surpassed all other genocides humanity has witnessed combined and continues on even now...though some in authority are finally beginning to take action.

As to our hands being full...when are they not? Theft is illegal and yet, we are arresting thieves daily...the fact that a thing is made illegal does not mean that it goes away...it just means that those who continue the practice may be rightly punished. Arguing that because people will continue to kill unborns even if it is punishable by law and therefore it is pointless to make it illegal is yet another logical fallacy....this time, it's a red herring.

Your hateful anger is kind of amusing but sad and pathetic at the same time. I believe that you believe yourself to be an expert but you seem very far from it. You are more of an E-Warrior. Believing what aligns with your beliefs and doing what ever it takes to make yourself feel bold in defending such belief.

And now you engage in the fallacy known as poisoning the well. You attempt to discredit me by claiming that cold, hard, insurmountable fact and logic are hateful anger. You believe because I call a sociopath a sociopath, and a coward a coward that I am somehow angry and hateful? Unblocking honesty is hateful in your eyes?

If you believe I have misrepresented any biological fact, by all means point it out and we can discuss it thoroughly....my position is based on biological fact and if you can provide sufficient fact to outweigh the body of information upon which my position is based, then my position must change. I doubt that any such challenge to the facts will be forthcoming.

And again, my position, unlike yours, is not based on a belief, or smoke and mirrors, or mental masturbation, or any of the myriad of ways that we humans have of deceiving ourselves in an effort to alleviate guilt and or self loathing. My position is, again, formed by an unblinking look at the facts and acceptance of them.

Have a good life. May God continue to bless you and I with Christs Will, Love, Forgiveness, Wisdom, Knowledge, Discernment and Mercy.

And the parade of logical fallacies marches on. You saved the best for last...more poisoning the well but spiced with a reverse appeal to pity. You, who choose not to take a stand against the killing of unborn children who happen to be inconvenient invoke the names of GOD and Christ to save my soul? You who would rather look the other way in resigned acceptance when the greatest mass murder in human history against the weakest of possible victims invoke forgiveness for me because I am in need of it apparently because I also do not look the other way in resigned acceptance?

Perhaps you are a religious person....or tell yourself that you are but from a strictly religious philosophical point of view, you have it all wrong there as well...first off you have judged me and found me in need of forgiveness when you have not presented the first bit of evidence against me...you have questioned my wisdom when my position is the result of a long, honest, unblinking look at the facts and acceptance of them...you have questioned my knowledge when you have offered nothing that would call any bit of the science upon which I base my position into question...you question my discernment when my opinion of you is based only on what you have indicated yourself...and you question my capacity for mercy when it is you who is looking away with resigned acceptance from the largest mass murder of innocents in the history of mankind.

Are those truly the traits of a faithful adherent of whatever religion you profess to practice? If you are Christian as your "blessing" seems to suggest then you are clearly merely playing lip service, which as we all know is defined in the Book as a hypocrite...one who pretends to have virtues, moral beliefs, principles, etc but actions...or lack of action belies those stated beliefs.

Tell me, of what value is a hypocrites blessing?

 

[noday8]

So you are so sure that the parents of twins are both parents and grandparents at the same time and that human beings are asexual so one of the twins is actually a parent of its so called sibling? Yeah, so logical and factual.

When does the newly formed parent metabolize before it splits and reproduces as an asexual human being?
Within your fake scientific theory do these very very immature parents react to stimuli also?

You also forgot to note that these very immature human beings can also split and reproduce to become a parent beyond the zygote stage.

Wouldn't it be very interesting to explain your so called scientific theory to Young Earth Creationists? Are you a Young Earth creationist? A very immature human being can reproduce like what evolutionists say one celled organisms that eventually evolved into human beings did billions of years ago. Interesting. I wish you would video record such a lecture and the young earth creationists response to it.

Also God is not a hypocrite. We are all hypocritical as we sin and judge others. Judgement and wrath is a pillar in ones eye that is blinding. Read what I wrote over again. And may God bless you and I with Christs wisdom.

 

[noday8]

Just some interesting facts.

blastomeres
notice that the resulting cells are smaller than the original zygote and are called blastomeres

Blastocyst

Blastocyst
A fluid-filled, hollow ball of cells

*at the 32 cell stage fluid enters the morula, collects betweens the blastomeres and reorganizes them around a large fluid filled cavity call the blastocyst cavity (blastocoel)
*morula becomes a blastocyst
*the blastocyst is still about the same size as the original zygote
*zona pellucida begins to degenerate and blastocyst is closer to or in uterus by now
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
After floating freely for a few days the blastocyst loosely attaches to the endometrium (implantation)
*the blastocyst sheds the zona pellucida
*once implantation begins the blastocyst cells will change into two distinct cell types-the trophoblast and the inner cell mass.


Now a question. Is the Blastocyst actually slightly smaller than the original Zygote? Interesting.

 

[palerider]

So you are so sure that the parents of twins are both parents and grandparents at the same time and that human beings are asexual so one of the twins is actually a parent of its so called sibling? Yeah, so logical and factual.

Sorry you find this all so difficult to wrap your mind around. The definition of asexual reproduction reproduction,as budding ,fission, or spore formation, not involving the union of gametes. Words have meanings. If a blastocyst splits and two unborns result, what has happened is, by definition, asexual reproduction. As I said..we, and all multicellular animals are capable of asexual reproduction for a short period of time in our development.

When does the newly formed parent metabolize before it splits and reproduces as an asexual human being?
Within your fake scientific theory do these very very immature parents react to stimuli also?

Interesting how the ignorant typically react sarcastically to facts that they can't get their minds around.

You also forgot to note that these very immature human beings can also split and reproduce to become a parent beyond the zygote stage.

So long as the cells are totipotent...yes.

Wouldn't it be very interesting to explain your so called scientific theory to Young Earth Creationists? Are you a Young Earth creationist? A very immature human being can reproduce like what evolutionists say one celled organisms that eventually evolved into human beings did billions of years ago. Interesting. I wish you would video record such a lecture and the young earth creationists response to it.

Who cares what a young earth creationist thinks...hell, look at your reaction. Could their reaction exhibit much more denial of the biological fact than your own?

Also God is not a hypocrite. We are all hypocritical as we sin and judge others. Judgement and wrath is a pillar in ones eye that is blinding. Read what I wrote over again. And may God bless you and I with Christs wisdom.

Get the log out of your own eye...and seek some wisdom yourself to deal with your own hate. Pretending to wish me well as a cover for your own anger towards me is a poor cover indeed. And you have yet to disprove a single biological statement that I have made....one logical fallacy after another is all you have managed thus far.

 

[palerider]

Just some interesting facts.

blastomeres
notice that the resulting cells are smaller than the original zygote and are called blastomeres

Now a question. Is the Blastocyst actually slightly smaller than the original Zygote? Interesting.

That surprises you? The child does not yet have means to get more nutrients....biological activity is happening....energy is being used....why do you suppose that it is surprising that the overall mass has decreased? It would be more interesting if the overall mass did not decrease. If you stop taking in nutrients but your biological activity continues does your mass not decrease?

 

[noday8]

"Sorry you find this all so difficult to wrap your mind around. The definition of asexual reproduction reproduction,as budding ,fission, or spore formation, not involving the union of gametes. Words have meanings. If a blastocyst splits and two unborns result, what has happened is, by definition, asexual reproduction. As I said..we, and all multicellular animals are capable of asexual reproduction for a short period of time in our development."



Asexual reproduction
Definition

noun

A form of reproduction that does not involve meiosis, ploidy reduction or fertilization, and the offspring is a clone of the parent organism;because of no exchange of genetic material.



Binary fission
Definition

noun

A type of asexual reproduction common among prokaryotes wherein a cell divides giving rise to two cells, each having the potential to grow to the size of the original cell.


Budding
Definition

noun

(biology) The formation of an outgrowth from an organism, and is capable of developing into a new individual; gemmation.

(botany)
(1) The state of forming or developing a bud.
(2) A form of grafting in which a bud of a plant is inserted or grafted into another plant.

(embryology) The process of embryo differentiation in which the old structures are formed in outgrowth from pre-existing parts.

(virology) The forming of a protrusion by certain viruses using a fragment of the host cell membrane in order to acquire their external envelope.

(general) That is beginning to develop; the state of producing buds.

adjective

Developing, flowering.

Spore
Definition

noun, plural: spores

A dormant, reproductive cell formed by certain organisms. It is thick-walled and highly resistant to survive under unfavorable conditions so that when conditions revert to being suitable it gives rise to a new individual.


Zygote
Definition

noun, plural: zygotes

A cell in diploid state following fertilization or union of haploid male sex cell (e.g. sperm) and haploid female sex cell (e.g. ovum).

I honesty do not see the connection that you are forcing yourself to believe. You are being illogical.




"Get the log out of your own eye...and seek some wisdom yourself to deal with your own hate. Pretending to wish me well as a cover for your own anger towards me is a poor cover indeed. And you have yet to disprove a single biological statement that I have made....one logical fallacy after another is all you have managed thus far."



I am not calling you a sociopath or psychopathic murderer. What wrath do I intend to unleash upon you? My opinion within this discussion.? And I do not hate you, and I do wish that God blesses you and I with Christ's wisdom. No hard feelings at all on my side within this conversation. Really.




"That surprises you? The child does not yet have means to get more nutrients....biological activity is happening....energy is being used....why do you suppose that it is surprising that the overall mass has decreased? It would be more interesting if the overall mass did not decrease. If you stop taking in nutrients but your biological activity continues does your mass not decrease?"



Again, you are calling a Zygote or late stage Blastocyst that begins to twin a parent Human Being. That is your imagination not science. Organisms grow, take in nutrients and respond to stimuli.

http://www.biology-online.org/dictionary?sid=fa9cf9f95c9d25d79f2ba852aa3f3182

 

[noday8]

Sorry that I didn't quote you within that box frame with your name above it.

 

[noday8]

Mitosis occurs only in eukaryoticcells and the process varies in different organisms. For example, animals undergo an "open" mitosis, where the nuclear envelope breaks down before the chromosomes separate, while fungi undergo a "closed" mitosis, where chromosomes divide within an intact cell nucleus. Furthermore, most animal cells undergo a shape change, known as mitotic cell rounding, to adopt a near spherical morphology at the start of mitosis. Prokaryotic cells, which lack a nucleus, divide by a different process called binary fission.

 

[palerider]

Asexual reproduction
Definition

noun

A form of reproduction that does not involve meiosis, ploidy reduction or fertilization, and the offspring is a clone of the parent organism;because of no exchange of genetic material.

Thanks for proving my point...for a short period of time we are capable of asexual reproduction.

Binary fission

Definition

noun

A type of asexual reproduction common among prokaryotes wherein a cell divides giving rise to two cells, each having the potential to grow to the size of the original cell.

Prokaryotes for their entire life span and most other higher forms of life for a very short period in their life span.

I honesty do not see the connection that you are forcing yourself to believe. You are being illogical.

Of course you don't...you have a big assed log in your eye...and a disposition towards denial of things that don't fit your world view.

I am not calling you a sociopath or psychopathic murderer.

Nor should you since I don't exhibit any of the characteristics of either...nor do I enable them by quietly accepting their actions.

What wrath do I intend to unleash upon you?

Your pretend wishes that I gain wisdom...and forgiveness....and that I be blessed..in lieu of any argument that counters a single thing that I have said. Passive - aggressive pretty much sums it up. Let me guess...you live, or grew up in an environment where actual expression of something like anger or any honest expression of negative feelings was frowned upon and as a result, you developed other outlets for those feelings...you disguise and sugar coat your vindictive intent towards those who cause you discomfort with misplaced good wishes....and wishing me wisdom and forgiveness in place of any actual argument against my position are certainly misplaced good wishes. Perhaps some therapy?

My opinion within this discussion.? And I do not hate you, and I do wish that God blesses you and I with Christ's wisdom. No hard feelings at all on my side within this conversation. Really.

Right. You wear your feelings on your sleeve like a badge for anyone to see who cares to look. Your "good" wishes for me were, and continue to be an inappropriate response for an argument to which you had no actual chance of winning.

Again, you are calling a Zygote or late stage Blastocyst that begins to twin a parent Human Being. That is your imagination not science. Organisms grow, take in nutrients and respond to stimuli.

So tell me, what species does the child belong to? Describe the metamorphosis by which this "thing" that isn't homo sapiens sapiens becomes homo sapiens sapiens....tell me how you, personally, were once something other than a growing, developing member of our species.

From the time you were a zygote, you have been growing....while you were a zygote and through the short period till you attached yourself to your mother's uterine wall, you used nutrients that you had available to you...provided by the egg.....and right from the beginning you had an internal homeostatic control system that maintained and regulated your growth and development...that, since you clearly did not know...is a response to stimulus.

It is clear that biology was never your best thing... When you are't expressing passive aggressive dislike for me, you offer up the same tired old thoroughly debunked arguments that most of the pro choice movement gave up some time ago out of sheer embarrassment.

 

[palerider]

Mitosis occurs only in eukaryoticcells and the process varies in different organisms. For example, animals undergo an "open" mitosis, where the nuclear envelope breaks down before the chromosomes separate, while fungi undergo a "closed" mitosis, where chromosomes divide within an intact cell nucleus. Furthermore, most animal cells undergo a shape change, known as mitotic cell rounding, to adopt a near spherical morphology at the start of mitosis. Prokaryotic cells, which lack a nucleus, divide by a different process called binary fission.

None of which alters the fact that under certain conditions a developing human being can asexually reproduce a clone of itself. Cutting and pasting material which you really don't understand is no way to win a debate.

 

[noday8]

You really do not notice that the human Zygote is only described as a cell and not an organism within biology dictionaries? It is explained that the human zygote simply divides without mention of asexual reproduction. The chromosomes are replicated within the cell then it divides in half. It is not defined as asexual reproduction when the original zygote comes about by sexual reproduction. Here is the biology dictionary's definition again.

Asexual reproduction
Definition

noun

A form of reproduction that does not involve meiosis, ploidy reduction orfertilization, and the offspring is a clone of the parent organism;because of no exchange of genetic material.

Like you said, words have meaning. But you add in your own imaginary meanings.

Find me a biology dictionary that defines the human zygote cleavage as asexual reproduction. Find me a biology dictionary that defines the twinning of a late stage blastocyst as asexual reproduction.

That would make the expecting mother a grandmother of twins with your logic since you claim that a zygote and a blastocyst is a parent human being that asexually reproduces when twins are born. You are claiming that some human parents never metabolize nutrients and they don't grow and two weeks later they are no more.


Hey, we all need Christ. You and I both. We are both flawed. But I will not write it on here if you find it offensive. I would have never thought it to be offensive to write that I hope God blesses us both with Christ's wisdom and will. I will just continue to say it in silent prayer. I guess that profile picture represents the judging eye full of wrath and not Christ's mercy.

 

[noday8]

Morphogenesis
morphogenesis

differentiation and growth of the structure of anorganism (or a part of an organism)

The development of form; the overall consequence ofdetermination, differentiation, and growth.


Metamorphosis
Definition

noun, plural: metamorphoses

(1) (biology) A change in the form and often habits of an animal after the embryonic stage during normal development.

(2) (pathology) A usually degenerative change in the structure of a particular body tissue.


By definition nothing within the embryonic stage or before it can be considered a metamorphosis. It is considered Morphogenesus.

 

[noday8]

After researching all this information, thanks to you, I have come to understand that life doesn't begin within every person. It began when God put life within the breath of the creature He formed in or before Creation Week day 3, in what I believe to have later became The Garden Of Eden for adam and animals. The seed and egg just recycles the life that God has given us humans. A circle of life.

Genesis 2:4
Adam and Eve
5 bush of the field was yet in the land and no small plant of the field had yet sprung up—for the LordGod had not caused it to rain on the land, and there was no man to work the ground, 6 or was going up from the land and was watering the whole face of the ground—7 dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature. 8 garden in Eden, in the east, and there he put the man whom he had formed. 9 The tree of life was in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

 

[palerider]

You really do not notice that the human Zygote is only described as a cell and not an organism within biology dictionaries?

An adult could be described as a collection of cells...what of it? Organism is defined as:


1. a form of life composed of mutually interdependent parts that maintain various vital processes. (a zygote meets this definition)
2. a form of life considered as an entity; an animal, plant, fungus,protistan, or moneran. (a zygote meets this definition)
4. any complex thing or system having properties and functions determined not only by the properties and relations of its individual parts, but by the character of the whole that they compose and by the relations of the parts to the whole. (a zygote meets this definition)

If a zygote meets the definitions of an organism then it is, by definition, an organism. Words mean things.

It is explained that the human zygote simply divides without mention of asexual reproduction.

You seem incapable of independent thought....if the book doesn't say it, it appears that you are unable to make a connection...this is due to a fundamental ignorance of biology on your part. The fact that your source doesn't say that a zygote is an organism is meaningless...if it meets the definition of an organism then it is, by definition an organism...and it doesn't matter whether your text says that it is capable of asexual reproduction for a short time, it in fact, by the definition of asexual reproduction, asexually reproduces. Your failure to grasp these facts is due to an ignorance on your part....not the biological facts that a zygote is in fact, an organism, and that for a short period of time, we are capable of asexual reproduction.

The fact that you continue to try to press the point is further evidence of your lack of knowledge in the realm of biology...You have lost this debate....failure to grasp that is just more evidence of your lack of knowledge. You will not be able to put forward a biological point that will prove your position...I have spent years looking for such points...none exist.

The chromosomes are replicated within the cell then it divides in half. It is not defined as asexual reproduction when the original zygote comes about by sexual reproduction. Here is the biology dictionary's definition again.

What came before or after is irrelevant. Fission is the asexual process by which one organism divides and becomes two. Arguing ahat came before or comes after constitutes a logical fallacy called a red herring....the fact of fission is all that matters.

Find me a biology dictionary that defines the human zygote cleavage as asexual reproduction. Find me a biology dictionary that defines the twinning of a late stage blastocyst as asexual reproduction.

Not necessary...by definition fission is the process. One organism divides and two organisms are the result....two organisms where there once was one...no sexual activity involved. Your need to actually see the words when the reality is literally the definition once again brings your biological ignorance into high relief.

That would make the expecting mother a grandmother of twins with your logic since you claim that a zygote and a blastocyst is a parent human being that asexually reproduces when twins are born. You are claiming that some human parents never metabolize nutrients and they don't grow and two weeks later they are no more.

What does the word grandmother have to do with the biology of human development? If red herrings are all you have (and they are) then you have no valid argument.

Hey, we all need Christ. You and I both. We are both flawed.

Of course we do....I however don't invoke his name in a passive aggressive attack on adversaries.

But I will not write it on here if you find it offensive. I would have never thought it to be offensive to write that I hope God blesses us both with Christ's wisdom and will.

I don't find the name offensive...and again, you poison the well by suggesting that I do. People with passive aggressive tendencies rarely recognize the trait in themselves....it is, after all, a camouflage mechanism that allows them to vent their anger without actually acting angry.

 

[palerider]

By definition nothing within the embryonic stage or before it can be considered a metamorphosis. It is considered Morphogenesus.

So like I said...you didn't metamorphose into a human...you have been a human being since the time you came into existence which would be the time fertilization was complete. You...personally...once upon a time were a zygote....and when you were a zygote, you were a human being at his or her most immature state...everything that came after has been nothing more than growth and development.