In Defense of Capitalism & Free Markets

[GenSeneca]

True, or if you desire "pure", capitalism can only work in a moral society where the rights of the individual are recognized beyond that of property. That would probably be the greatest flaw of capitalism in that morality most often cannot be enforced without the power of force, or law.

Capitalism is Capitalism. Laissez Faire Capitalism is redundant, like wet water. "Pure" capitalism is equally redundant, there can be no other kind of Capitalism. Once the system deviates from laws strictly limited to respecting and protecting individual rights, it's no longer capitalism.

1. Morality is a vague term. What specific morality are you suggesting needs to be imposed on the public?

2. Why is it necessary to impose a specific morality on the public if no individual, group, or even the government, is legally allowed to violate individual rights?

 

[GenSeneca]

I still see people attacking capitalism and free markets for problems they played no role in facilitating... You capitalist haters need to look at your precious governments role in every single mess and place blame where it belongs - on government.

 

[GenSeneca]

I've been discussing Alternative Energy in other threads... Would anyone like to challenge my assertion that the Free Market is far more effective than Government in finding viable alternatives?

 

[Gipper]

I've been discussing Alternative Energy in other threads... Would anyone like to challenge my assertion that the Free Market is far more effective than Government in finding viable alternatives?

Not I!

For to challenge your assertion, would mean I am a fool.

 

[Stalin]

The most obvious example of a truly free market is the illegal drug market.

No taxes, no government regulations enforced on product quality and no effective monitoring of finance and investment.

Is this what you want ?

Comrade Stalin of Gori.

 

[GenSeneca]

The most obvious example of a truly free market is the illegal drug market.

No taxes, no government regulations enforced on product quality and no effective monitoring of finance and investment.

Is this what you want ?

Comrade Stalin of Gori.

From the OP:

Capitalism as a political and social doctrine is respect for individual rights. Unlike the typical perception of Capitalism as total Anarchy, Capitalism requires a strong government that is strictly limited to its only moral, ethical and just purpose for existence; Protecting individual rights. This means protecting every individual from force and fraud.

Any social policy or system that violates individual rights is not Capitalism.

Free Markets are a necessary corollary to Capitalism as an economic system. Free Markets are free of; Government regulations, subsidies, bailouts, etc. The only limits placed on Free Markets in a Capitalist system are those that protect individuals from force and fraud.

Any Market policy or system that isn't limited to protecting individual rights, is not a Free Market.

As you yourself said, the illegal drug market has nothing to protect individuals from force and fraud. That's governments role in Capitalism and Free Markets, to protect individual rights.

So no... The illegal drug market is not an example of a Free Market system and it's also not a system I'd want.

 

[GenSeneca]

Anyone else?

 

[GenSeneca]

Capitalism as a political and social doctrine is respect for individual rights. Unlike the typical perception of Capitalism as total Anarchy, Capitalism requires a strong government that is strictly limited to its only moral, ethical and just purpose for existence; Protecting individual rights. This means protecting every individual from force and fraud.

Any social policy or system that violates individual rights is not Capitalism.

Free Markets are a necessary corollary to Capitalism as an economic system. Free Markets are free of; Government regulations, subsidies, bailouts, etc. The only limits placed on Free Markets in a Capitalist system are those that protect individuals from force and fraud.

Any Market policy or system that isn't limited to protecting individual rights, is not a Free Market.

When I have challenged people to defend their views in other threads, they immediately, and instinctively, chose instead to try to attack mine... As if that were a legitimate tactic which actually provided a defense of their positions. So here it is, your chance to attack my positions while I defend them.

I know there are plenty of Anti-Capitalists out there, eager to blame every conceivable ill of society on Capitalism and Free Markets, so here's your chance... Take your best shot.

That's the OP Pocket... Now feel free to explain to everyone why a system of government tasked with protecting you from force and fraud is "anarchy" and "chaos".

 

[GenSeneca]

Pocket, if you wish to attack Capitalism this is the correct thread to do so.

go read last post again...Anarchy...in the non Government political view...as in Chaos...not the idea that no government is best anarchy....but maybe its to hard for you to understand the difference....

People who are drunk and stoned often think their words are profound insights when it's nothing more than inebriated gibberish.

Capitalism calls for a strong government to protect individual rights.

That statement is neither one of NO government nor is it one of NON government.

So let's try this again:

Explain to everyone why a system of government tasked with protecting you from force and fraud is objectionable.

 

[Gipper]

Pocket, if you wish to attack Capitalism this is the correct thread to do so.



People who are drunk and stoned often think their words are profound insights when it's nothing more than inebriated gibberish.

Capitalism calls for a strong government to protect individual rights.

That statement is neither one of NO government nor is it one of NON government.

So let's try this again:

Explain to everyone why a system of government tasked with protecting you from force and fraud is objectionable.

It is quite objectionable to liberals and progressives. They do not want government to merely protect against force and fraud. They want government to provide them with all conceivable needs and wants. Of course, many of these same liberals and progressives are not intelligent enough to understand that a government which provides all needs and wants will naturally take all their rights.

I did not care for Pres. Ford much, but he was correct with this statement...

A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.
Gerald R. Ford

 

[dahermit]

I recently viewed a documentary, "Food Inc.", available from NetFlix, that has a lot to say about what "Free Enterprise", has deteriorated into in regard to the food industry.

It solves some of the mystery of E coli contamination of poultry, beef, and the current contamination of spinach and other vegetable crops.

It brings up issues germane to this thread. You should watch it before concluding that Capitalism can do no wrong.

I await a critique of the film...by those who actually watch it.

 

[Gipper]

I recently viewed a documentary, "Food Inc.", available from NetFlix, that has a lot to say about what "Free Enterprise", has deteriorated into in regard to the food industry.

It solves some of the mystery of E coli contamination of poultry, beef, and the current contamination of spinach and other vegetable crops.

It brings up issues germane to this thread. You should watch it before concluding that Capitalism can do no wrong.

I await a critique of the film...by those who actually watch it.

Thank you for that post. I believe it points to the fundamental problem we have trying to communicate with each other.

Many libs see documentaries like Food, Inc., and conclude capitalism is at fault. Your kind blame capitalism for all sorts of problems (see all the lying works of the fat rich fool Michael Moore). But, the real problem is libs placing blame wrongly.

You see a socialistic unlimited government (which we have now) busy doing way too many things it was never intended or capable of performing, fails to do it's Constitutional tasks. One of those tasks concerns food safety. But, just as government has failed in so many other Constitutional tasks like the border, the New Orleans dikes, 9/11, etc......

So we can conclude, the problem is not capitalism but unlimited government...aka...socialism.

Once again, you must flip your conclusions on all issues 180 degrees to the get the correct answer.

 

[dahermit]

Thank you for that post. I believe it points to the fundamental problem we have trying to communicate with each other.

Many libs see documentaries like Food, Inc., and conclude capitalism is at fault. Your kind blame capitalism for all sorts of problems (see all the lying works of the fat rich fool Michael Moore). But, the real problem is libs placing blame wrongly.

You see a socialistic unlimited government (which we have now) busy doing way too many things it was never intended or capable of performing, fails to do it's Constitutional tasks. One of those tasks concerns food safety. But, just as government has failed in so many other Constitutional tasks like the border, the New Orleans dikes, 9/11, etc......

So we can conclude, the problem is not capitalism but unlimited government...aka...socialism.

Once again, you must flip your conclusions on all issues 180 degrees to the get the correct answer.

Did you actually view the film before you made the determination that it showed capitalism in a bad light?

 

[GenSeneca]

I recently viewed a documentary, "Food Inc.", available from NetFlix, that has a lot to say about what "Free Enterprise", has deteriorated into in regard to the food industry.

You really should have read the OP before posting this garbage.

Free Enterprise: Business governed by the laws of supply and demand, not restrained by government interference, regulation or subsidy.

The food industry is one of the most heavily regulated of all industries, USDA, FDA, EPA, DHHS, CDC and more...

The food industry is also heavily subsidized which is a point the filmmakers are very clear about in the following CBS interview:

Food subsidies will cost taxpayers $79 billion in fiscal 2009 and account for about two-thirds of USDA’s budget. - Cato

Now check out the USDA's Mission and Vision statements:

Mission: We provide leadership on food, agriculture, natural resources, rural development, nutrition, and related issues based on sound public policy, the best available science, and efficient management.

Vision: To expand economic opportunity through innovation, helping rural America to thrive; to promote agriculture production sustainability that better nourishes Americans while also helping feed others throughout the world; and to preserve and conserve our Nation’s natural resources through restored forests, improved watersheds, and healthy private working lands.

Protecting the consumer from force and fraud is conspicuously missing from those statements. Under a Capitalist system, that would be the ONE AND ONLY job of any regulatory agency.

It solves some of the mystery of E coli contamination of poultry, beef, and the current contamination of spinach and other vegetable crops.

Think for a moment about what could have been different if 100% of the USDA's FY'09 budget would have been focused on protecting consumers. Instead of 100%, only about 1% (just over $1 billion of the $97 billion dollar budget) went to Food Safety.

That's $96 BILLION of the USDA budget being spent on something other than FOOD SAFETY!

...Yet you blame Capitalism and Free Markets for E Coli and other threats while completely dismissing government's total incompetence in protecting consumers.

It brings up issues germane to this thread. You should watch it before concluding that Capitalism can do no wrong.

You should make a real effort to learn what Capitalism and Free Markets are all about before concluding they can do no right.

I await a critique of the film...by those who actually watch it.

I await a critique of Capitalism and Free Markets from someone who actually understands what they are... Instead I get strawmen about Anarchy and nonsensical posts blaming Capitalism and Free Markets for bad government policy and horribly misguided regulatory agencies that fail to protect the individual rights of consumers.

 

[dahermit]

You really should have read the OP before posting this garbage.

Free Enterprise: Business governed by the laws of supply and demand, not restrained by government interference, regulation or subsidy.

The food industry is one of the most heavily regulated of all industries, USDA, FDA, EPA, DHHS, CDC and more...

The food industry is also heavily subsidized which is a point the filmmakers are very clear about in the following CBS interview:

Now check out the USDA's Mission and Vision statements:



Protecting the consumer from force and fraud is conspicuously missing from those statements. Under a Capitalist system, that would be the ONE AND ONLY job of any regulatory agency.



Think for a moment about what could have been different if 100% of the USDA's FY'09 budget would have been focused on protecting consumers. Instead of 100%, only about 1% (just over $1 billion of the $97 billion dollar budget) went to Food Safety.

That's $96 BILLION of the USDA budget being spent on something other than FOOD SAFETY!

...Yet you blame Capitalism and Free Markets for E Coli and other threats while completely dismissing government's total incompetence in protecting consumers.


You should make a real effort to learn what Capitalism and Free Markets are all about before concluding they can do no right.


I await a critique of Capitalism and Free Markets from someone who actually understands what they are... Instead I get strawmen about Anarchy and nonsensical posts blaming Capitalism and Free Markets for bad government policy and horribly misguided regulatory agencies that fail to protect the individual rights of consumers.

It tells much about you that you choose to make such comments without seeing the film that I posted. Would you not feel like a fool if the film did not actually exist? For God's sake! Watch the film and then make your comments!