I Don't Care !!!

[9sublime]

Is there any other organization in society capable of wielding some sort of regulative powers except the church and state?

You really believe that the government and the church makes the ethics? The government follows the peoples ethics (in a free society) so it gets voted in. It does not make the ethics and force people to follow them. Before organized government in the modern sense did people have no moral ethics at all? Ethics come out of the way society interacts with each other - the government lays down these ethics as concrete law and the church instills fear into people saying if they don't follow them they will go to hell.

An ethical standard that is left to the sentiment of an individual is like saying there is NO ethical standard. And a society that does not have any ethical standard would surely result in annihilation.

In comparison, aesthetics is meant to lift the human spirit - not at all compulsory to the existence of the polity.

Understand?

No. Individuals that have a differing ethical standard are evident everywhere - they are labelled as peadaphiles etc. and locked in jail or looked down upon for their views. Society makes the values itself - and society is made up of the people - so in effect the people make the values. And the values they share become the moral code of that society.

I don't understand what aesthetics has to do with this.

 

[Coyote]

Don't ethics come from a cultural consensus? State and Church merely enforce it.

But..there are some universals - golden rules - where do they come from?

A biological imperative?

 

[9sublime]

Don't ethics come from a cultural consensus? State and Church merely enforce it.

But..there are some universals - golden rules - where do they come from?

A biological imperative?

This is exactly what I am saying.

However, I don't agree that golden rules have always been prevalent, even though they should be. Incest, infanticide, fractricide, rape and genocides have been acceptable at one time or another under various cultural traditions - today almost every society deems them totally immoral.

 

[numinus]

You really believe that the government and the church makes the ethics? The government follows the peoples ethics (in a free society) so it gets voted in. It does not make the ethics and force people to follow them. Before organized government in the modern sense did people have no moral ethics at all? Ethics come out of the way society interacts with each other - the government lays down these ethics as concrete law and the church instills fear into people saying if they don't follow them they will go to hell.

Did I say the government and church make ethics? I said, the government and the church are the only political entities in society capable of wielding regulative (sometimes even coersive) powers.

No one makes ethics. It is an objective existence, like mathematical logic.

No. Individuals that have a differing ethical standard are evident everywhere - they are labelled as peadaphiles etc. and locked in jail or looked down upon for their views. Society makes the values itself - and society is made up of the people - so in effect the people make the values. And the values they share become the moral code of that society.

The fact that people have different ethical standard does not mean there is no fixed ethical standard. If you notice, the ethical standard of ALL people tend to converge to a hypothetical good.

I don't understand what aesthetics has to do with this.

You brought it up, not me.

 

[numinus]

Don't ethics come from a cultural consensus? State and Church merely enforce it.

No. An unethical law, however else it conforms with public consensus, isn't and can never be ethical.

Ethics fall within the province of anyone capable of discerning logic.

But..there are some universals - golden rules - where do they come from?

A biological imperative?

It is fixed in the order of creation, in the same way that transcendental numbers are fixed in mathematical logic.

 

[numinus]

This is exactly what I am saying.

However, I don't agree that golden rules have always been prevalent, even though they should be. Incest, infanticide, fractricide, rape and genocides have been acceptable at one time or another under various cultural traditions - today almost every society deems them totally immoral.

Very humean. However, hume himself did not have the courage to extrapolate his philosophy to this end.