I Don't Care !!!

[9sublime]

Ethics aren't made - period.

It is found in the logical operation of the immutable nature of all things..

I agre, but then I don't see how having no religion would mean that legislators make our ethics?

A subjective morality is a contradiction.

Morality is a measure of good and evil. Any measure divorced from a fixed standard is an indeterminate thing - hence lacking both form and substance.

How do you measure emotions? How do you measure beauty? You know something is more beautiful than something else, or that something makes you happy or it does not, but it is subjective and does not have a specific scale and from one person to the next it does not make the opinion any less valid.
You and me liking different music for example does not mean that there is no standard, it is a personal standard.

And by the same approach, something one society finds acceptable another society may not - it is subjective to their beliefs and moral standards that have been forged over generations.

 

[jb_1430]

My point is you have no point here. You are condemning an entire faith based on it's extremist factions. You make false claims that Muslims don't speak out against extremism.

You refuse to acknowledge the same problems existing in the doctrines of other faiths.

I dont condemn an entire faith and I didnt make any false claims that Muslims dont speak out. Something YOU imagined. And youve demonstrated that the problem arises with Christian doctrine through tortured interpretations and blatant misrepresentations of the text.
Do you read anything Ive posted? or do you just respond?

 

[Coyote]

I dont condemn an entire faith and I didnt make any false claims that Muslims dont speak out. Something YOU imagined.

You are right - for that I owe an apology. I confused you with Bewitched in regards to those claims.

However - you still appear to be condemning an entire faith. If you are not - what are you doing?

And youve demonstrated that the problem arises with Christian doctrine through tortured interpretations and blatant misrepresentations of the text.
Do you read anything Ive posted? or do you just respond?

Not even very tortured or misrepresented - look how easily and readily it is done.

You totally disregard any doctrine in Islam that is contrary to what you post. You've also posted quotes that are taken out side the context of the entirety in which they are posted. In that sense - by cherry picking only those bits of doctrine that support your point you are equally guilty of misrepresenting.

In the end - it doesn't matter though does it? Extremists - be they Christian in the past or Muslims now have taken doctrine and perverted it to their own political or religious aims. It doesn't matter what doctrine actually means because that interpretation is subjective - it's what any given people at any given time think it means and any of these doctrines are open to perversion by their literal words.

 

[jb_1430]

Not even very tortured or misrepresented -

Your not even capeable of discussing the issue honestly. Your misrepresentation of the parable of the Ten Minas as Jesus ordering killed those who do not follow him is a good example of your dishonesty. Funny thing is, I think youve convinced yourself with your own lies. DIG DEEP for some semblance of integrity if you can.

You totally disregard any doctrine in Islam that is contrary to what you post.

Nooo. Im just familiar with the doctrine of abrogation within Islam. Im aware of the verses that were written in the meccan period and those written in the medinian period. Im also aware of the NEW testament and its meaning for most Christians regarding the old.

In the end - it doesn't matter though does it? Extremists - be they Christian in the past or Muslims now have taken doctrine and perverted it to their own political or religious aims.

Not unless you realize they are not perverting it. So is it your opinion that the Islamic caliphate that ruled from 632 - 1926 was just a perversion of the doctrine?

 

[bewitched]

My point is you have no point here. You are condemning an entire faith based on it's extremist factions. You make false claims that Muslims don't speak out against extremism.

You refuse to acknowledge the same problems existing in the doctrines of other faiths.

seperate Islam from individuals. it's a big step, but you can do it.
no Muslims aren't speaking out against extemism because they don't believe those actions are exteme. did you see the celebration in the past couple of days of the eid ul shura? bloody heads? think that's extreme? I do.

 

[bewitched]

You are right - for that I owe an apology. I confused you with Bewitched in regards to those claims.

.

how dare you.
maybe you are confusing a lot of stuff.

 

[bewitched]

My point is you have no point here. You are condemning an entire faith based on it's extremist factions. You make false claims that Muslims don't speak out against extremism.

You refuse to acknowledge the same problems existing in the doctrines of other faiths.

is this extreme?
"KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) — An Afghan court on Tuesday sentenced a 23-year-old journalism student to death for distributing a paper he printed off the Internet that three judges said violated the tenets of Islam, an official said.
The three-judge panel sentenced Sayad Parwez Kambaksh to death for distributing a paper that humiliated Islam, said Fazel Wahab, the chief judge in the northern province of Balkh, where the trial took place. Wahab did not preside over the trial."

yes. this is extreme.

 

[bewitched]

is this extreme?
"PressTV

An Iranian MP says the Netherlands will face widespread protests if it gives the green light to the screening of an anti-Islam movie.
Head of the Majlis National Security and Foreign Policy Commission Alaeddin Boroujerdi said that the Iranian nation would react to any insult to Islam.

The senior Iranian lawmaker added that Muslims will not tolerate any insult to Islam."

 

[bewitched]

is this extreme?
"HASSAN Nasrallah, the Hezbollah chief and one of Israel's most wanted men, appeared in public for a Shi'ite religious event in the Lebanese capital for the first time in more than a year.
In a fiery speech, Mr Nasrallah said that his Lebanese Shi'ite militant group had the heads and body parts of soldiers that the Israeli army had abandoned.

"We have the heads, the hands, the feet and even a nearly intact cadaver from the head down to the pelvis," he said."

 

[Coyote]

is this extreme?
"HASSAN Nasrallah, the Hezbollah chief and one of Israel's most wanted men, appeared in public for a Shi'ite religious event in the Lebanese capital for the first time in more than a year.
In a fiery speech, Mr Nasrallah said that his Lebanese Shi'ite militant group had the heads and body parts of soldiers that the Israeli army had abandoned.

"We have the heads, the hands, the feet and even a nearly intact cadaver from the head down to the pelvis," he said."

You are talking about a terrorist in a war torn area.

What exactly is your point?

 

[Coyote]

is this extreme?
"PressTV

An Iranian MP says the Netherlands will face widespread protests if it gives the green light to the screening of an anti-Islam movie.
Head of the Majlis National Security and Foreign Policy Commission Alaeddin Boroujerdi said that the Iranian nation would react to any insult to Islam.

The senior Iranian lawmaker added that Muslims will not tolerate any insult to Islam."

So...people aren't allowed to protest? Nice.

I recall religious protests and boycotts over Golden Compass, DeVinci Code, The Passion....Harry Potter.

Rhetoric is rhetoric.

 

[Coyote]

is this extreme?
"KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) — An Afghan court on Tuesday sentenced a 23-year-old journalism student to death for distributing a paper he printed off the Internet that three judges said violated the tenets of Islam, an official said.
The three-judge panel sentenced Sayad Parwez Kambaksh to death for distributing a paper that humiliated Islam, said Fazel Wahab, the chief judge in the northern province of Balkh, where the trial took place. Wahab did not preside over the trial."

yes. this is extreme.

Afghanistan is Afghanistan. A different country, different laws, different culture.

Yes it's extreme. What's your point?

 

[Coyote]

how dare you.
maybe you are confusing a lot of stuff.

Nope Steve...not really

 

[Coyote]

seperate Islam from individuals. it's a big step, but you can do it.
no Muslims aren't speaking out against extemism because they don't believe those actions are exteme. did you see the celebration in the past couple of days of the eid ul shura? bloody heads? think that's extreme? I do.

Except for one niggling detail...they are speaking out. You seem to keep overlooking that...

 

[numinus]

I agre, but then I don't see how having no religion would mean that legislators make our ethics?

Is there any other organization in society capable of wielding some sort of regulative powers except the church and state?

How do you measure emotions? How do you measure beauty? You know something is more beautiful than something else, or that something makes you happy or it does not, but it is subjective and does not have a specific scale and from one person to the next it does not make the opinion any less valid.
You and me liking different music for example does not mean that there is no standard, it is a personal standard.

And by the same approach, something one society finds acceptable another society may not - it is subjective to their beliefs and moral standards that have been forged over generations.

An ethical standard that is left to the sentiment of an individual is like saying there is NO ethical standard. And a society that does not have any ethical standard would surely result in annihilation.

In comparison, aesthetics is meant to lift the human spirit - not at all compulsory to the existence of the polity.

Understand?