Gore wins Nobel Peace Prize

[USMC the Almighty]

Most important things are difficult. The fact that something might be difficult doesn't mean it doesn't warrant working toward. I'm more optamistic... but then I whole heartedly believe a Democrat will be our next President and that along with the House & the Senate opens the log jam considerably.

I think everyone Republican or Democrat has some sense that our environment is important. We all see together now with gas prices that an over reliance on oil isn't a good long term situation to be in.

Take the "Global Warming" catch phrase out of it and focus on a cleaner environment and a lessening of our demand for oil... and things seem more doable and the divide lessens... IMO.

A few things --

I also believe that there is a better than even chance that our next President will be a Democrat (Hillary). The Republican candidates certainly have a lot more work to do than Hillary in order to win the Oval Office, and I don't know anyone who would debate this.

I also agree that our environment is important and I'm all for conservationism (it is, after all, a Republican invention ) and energy independence but it is how we achieve this that I believe you and I will disagree.

Let's be honest top gun, neither you or I can know for sure the whole story about global warming. But one thing that I can say with confidence is that, whether or not it is happening, government certainly is not going to be the answer.

 

[top gun]

A few things --

I also believe that there is a better than even chance that our next President will be a Democrat (Hillary). The Republican candidates certainly have a lot more work to do than Hillary in order to win the Oval Office, and I don't know anyone who would debate this.

I also agree that our environment is important and I'm all for conservationism (it is, after all, a Republican invention ) and energy independence but it is how we achieve this that I believe you and I will disagree.

Let's be honest top gun, neither you or I can know for sure the whole story about global warming. But one thing that I can say with confidence is that, whether or not it is happening, government certainly is not going to be the answer.

Well we agree on a lot here which is a good thing.

And we don't know, probably will never know everything about our environment and Global Warming. But we know enough by thousands of the top scientists and researchers to know we can make some positive differance... and we should for our kids and our kids, kids sake.

We'll have to agree to disagree on how this will need to be handled because I do believe something this large in scope will need some government, for that matter global intervention. But I'm glad we found some common ground.

 

[USMC the Almighty]

Bunz, somehow I missed your post. I will certainly take you up on your offer if I'm ever near Alaska.

I agree with most of what you said and I certainly don't think the current administration has taken an effective approach to dealing with environmental issues. At the same time, I do not believe that a more intrusive, overbearing, federal government is the solution.

 

[9sublime]

I would love to go to Alaska. Especially if its anything like Iceland.

 

[palerider]

Its so funny yesterday I received a letter in the mail (with a CA return address) asking me to sign on to a petition against the current Al Gore theory on global warming.

Attached to the letter were elaborate studies, colored charts etc ...explaining why Global Warming is a hoax. The conclusion these people drew was ...global warming (based on the studies done recently) has existed for 1000's of years. In other words all the data shown to prove the present crisis ...occurred in the past ..and just part of a cycle.
Obvioulsy I shred the document and threw it in the garbage.

Exactly the sort of response that I woud expect from someone like you and doesn't that sort of action perfectly describe a LAP DOG? Unfortunate that you don't grasp exactly how wrong algore is.

As to global warming existing in the past, learn something. For the bulk of earth's history, it has been so warm here that no ice existed at one, or both poles. Ice on earth is the anomoly, not the norm. We have been in the present warning cycle for about 14,000 years. When it started, the arctic ice cap reached to south texas. The ice has been steadily melting back since that time and there is no reason whatsoever to expect it to stop until no ice exists at all.

Looking back I think what helped sink Gore in '00 was Joe-jew-Liberman and his AIPAC agenda!

Not surprising that you are an anti semite either. You certainly fit the mould.

 

[palerider]

USMC, let me tell you brother, I dont know what is causing it, but Im leaning towards burning of carbon, fossil fuels etc. But I live in Alaska, and trust me. Things arent the same as they were even 10 years ago. I could bring you to places that should be under literally under 100 feet of ice, and now there are small trees growing. It is raining at my house right now. 10 years ago, undoubtedly it would be snow. When I was a kid, trick or treating was done in two feet of snow, and heavily bundled up. Now it is done is break up boots and a rain coat.

I can take you to places that used to be under 500 feet of ice. IN SOUTH TEXAS. The ice has been melting for about 14,000 years. What is strange about the fact that it continues to melt?

 

[palerider]

Nobel specified that the Prize should be awarded "to the person who shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses."

Exactly what did algore do to earn the prize as opposed to world leaders who actually did work towards the goals stated above?

 

[vyo476]

Exactly what did algore do to earn the prize as opposed to world leaders who actually did work towards the goals stated above?

Which world leaders would that be?

 

[Bunz]

I can take you to places that used to be under 500 feet of ice. IN SOUTH TEXAS. The ice has been melting for about 14,000 years. What is strange about the fact that it continues to melt?

I know this, My point is that this has occurred in my 26 year life. That is quite dramatic, would you not agree?

I am quite aware that earth is in constant change and there has only been human life in times when the earth is in its current temperature range.

Would you call the increase in pollution that man has produced since the industrial age and the corresponding increase in average temps since that time a coincidence?

I guess what I havent seen from the right is evidence that global warming isnt happening, or that it isnt happening as a result of human pollution.

But I wonder what the reaction from the right would be if Pat Buchanan had his presentation on the truth that global warming isnt happening turned into a movie and as a result won the nobel prize.

 

[palerider]

Which world leaders would that be?

How about Burmese monks whose defiance against, and brutalization at the hands of, the country's military junta in recent weeks captured the attention of the Free World.

The prize was also not awarded to Morgan Tsvangirai, Arthur Mutambara and other Zimbabwe opposition leaders who were arrested and in some cases beaten by police earlier this year while protesting peacefully against dictator Robert Mugabe.

Or to Father Nguyen Van Ly, a Catholic priest in Vietnam arrested this year and sentenced to eight years in prison for helping the pro-democracy group Block 8406.

Or to Wajeha al-Huwaider and Fawzia al-Uyyouni, co-founders of the League of Demanders of Women's Right to Drive Cars in Saudi Arabia, who are waging a modest struggle with grand ambitions to secure basic rights for women in that Muslim country.

Or to Colombian President Àlvaro Uribe, who has fought tirelessly to end the violence wrought by left-wing terrorists and drug lords in his country.

Or to Garry Kasparov and the several hundred Russians who were arrested in April, and are continually harassed, for resisting President Vladimir Putin's slide toward authoritarian rule.

Or to the people of Iraq, who bravely work to rebuild and reunite their country amid constant threats to themselves and their families from terrorists who deliberately target civilians.

Or to Presidents Viktor Yushchenko and Mikheil Saakashvili who, despite the efforts of the Kremlin to undermine their young states, stayed true to the spirit of the peaceful "color" revolutions they led in Ukraine and Georgia and showed that democracy can put down deep roots in Russia's backyard.

Or to Britain's Tony Blair, Ireland's Bertie Ahern and the voters of Northern Ireland, who in March were able to set aside decades of hatred to establish joint Catholic-Protestant rule in Northern Ireland.

Or to thousands of Chinese bloggers who run the risk of arrest by trying to bring uncensored information to their countrymen.

Or to scholar and activist Saad Eddin Ibrahim, jailed presidential candidate Ayman Nour and other democracy campaigners in Egypt.

Or, posthumously, to lawmakers Walid Eido, Pierre Gemayel, Antoine Ghanem, Rafik Hariri, George Hawi and Gibran Tueni; journalist Samir Kassir; and other Lebanese citizens who've been assassinated since 2005 for their efforts to free their country from Syrian control.

Or to the Reverend Phillip Buck; Pastor Chun Ki Won and his organization, Durihana; Tim Peters and his Helping Hands Korea; and Liberty in North Korea, who help North Korean refugees escape to safety in free nations.

The contribution towards peace of any of these far outstrips algore's biased, inaccurate movie.

 

[palerider]

I know this, My point is that this has occurred in my 26 year life. That is quite dramatic, would you not agree?

Is it? I can find no evidence that there haven't been similar, and even more dramatic periods since we began coming out of the ice age that we are still exiting. We are, after all, near the end of the ice age. Wouldn't logic suggest that as the earth returns to its normal mean temperatures that the process would quicken as less and less of the surface of the earth is covered with ice? Wouldn't you expect the weather to change more dramatically near the end of an ice age than it would when the process was less far progressed?

I am quite aware that earth is in constant change and there has only been human life in times when the earth is in its current temperature range.

And it wasn't far into the life time of homo sapiens, sapiens that the ice began to melt back from most of the northern hemisphere. Should we blame them for setting the process into motion? And it hasn't been only during the existence of humans that the earth was in this particular range. This range has been passed, both on an upward climb and a downward slide over and over in earth's history.

Would you call the increase in pollution that man has produced since the industrial age and the corresponding increase in average temps since that time a coincidence?

Considering the fact that most of the one degree or so temperature change we have experienced happened in the eary part of the 20th century, and the fact that the ice has already been melting back for 14,000 years or so before the industrial age was ever concieved, then I wold say yes, it is coincidence. Pollution is definately bad news, but it is not responsible for the global climate.

I guess what I havent seen from the right is evidence that global warming isnt happening, or that it isnt happening as a result of human pollution.

I would never argue that it isn't happening. Only an idiot would try to make such an argument considering the fact that the ice has, and continues, to melt back from most of the northern hemisphere. My argument is that there is no evidence that we are causing it. The warming was going on long before our polution was anything worse than a scattering of antelope bones.

But I wonder what the reaction from the right would be if Pat Buchanan had his presentation on the truth that global warming isnt happening turned into a movie and as a result won the nobel prize.

If buchannan had made a movie that was full of scientific inaccuracies and blatant scientific errors, I would disregard it as well. And I would also question how a movie about globla warming deserves a peace prize as well. I respect fact and coherent thought. I could care less who made the movie, if it isn't accurate, it isn't accurate.

 

[Bunz]

Is it? I can find no evidence that there haven't been similar

I would encourage you to find evidence to justify your argument then.

Should we blame them for setting the process into motion?

Ultimately one cant and you know it.
What concerns me is the dramatic increase in the melting of glaciers that had been growing for 10k years until 50 years ago. Then all of a sudden with things are going to change overnight in geologic terms.
Come on, take an objective view and look at evidence that doesnt fit the reality you want to exist in.

If buchannan had made a movie that was full of scientific inaccuracies and blatant scientific errors, I would disregard it as well. And I would also question how a movie about globla warming deserves a peace prize as well. I respect fact and coherent thought. I could care less who made the movie, if it isn't accurate, it isn't accurate.

Im glad you can take a non-partisan view on the issue.

 

[Popeye]

Or to Garry Kasparov and the several hundred Russians who were arrested in April, and are continually harassed, for resisting President Vladimir Putin's slide toward authoritarian rule.

Whoops, I think you'll have to cross Kasparov off your list. He was on Bill Maher's show last Friday and derided Bush for claiming he looked into Putin's eyes and saw good character. Kasparov, who was extremely impressive, also claimed that tension in the Mideast, fostered by America, had allowed Putin to remain in power. He then went on to say America had once been a beacon of hope, but now, through it's continued application of double standards, had lost credibility throughout the world. Now, knowing your extreme partisanship, I'm sure such comments disqualify him in your eyes, despite any forthcoming claims to the contrary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQYyPooETcI​

The contribution towards peace of any of these far outstrips algore's biased, inaccurate movie.

Have you even seen the movie?

 

[palerider]

Whoops, I think you'll have to cross Kasparov off your list. He was on Bill Maher's show last Friday and derided Bush for claiming he looked into Putin's eyes and saw good character. Kasparov, who was extremely impressive, also claimed that tension in the Mideast, fostered by America, had allowed Putin to remain in power. He then went on to say America had once been a beacon of hope, but now, through it's continued application of double standards, had lost credibility throughout the world. Now, knowing your extreme partisanship, I'm sure such comments disqualify him in your eyes, despite any forthcoming claims to the contrary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQYyPooETcI​

Have you even seen the movie?

Unlike you, I don't base my positions on partisan politics and if you believe I do, it is just one more example of your ignorance. And I would agree that as america slides further towards modern liberalism, its credibliity does suffer.

 

[palerider]

I would encourage you to find evidence to justify your argument then.

It is you who needs some evidence if you believe that what is happening now is not perfectly normal and has not happened repeatedly during the course of earth's history. You are the one suggesting taking incredibly expensive action based on nothing more than supposition. We know from history that exits from previous ice ages were sporatic and became increasingly rapid as the ice cover diminished. Why exactly would we expect something different now? Because we are here?

What concerns me is the dramatic increase in the melting of glaciers that had been growing for 10k years until 50 years ago. Then all of a sudden with things are going to change overnight in geologic terms.
Come on, take an objective view and look at evidence that doesnt fit the reality you want to exist in.

60% of the earth's glaciers are expanding, some at an alarming rate. We know that glaciers expand and contract on a regular geological time table. Recently in the alps, a melting glacier uncovered a mine that was last in operation hundreds of years ago. There was no ice there, then a glacier covered it and now there is no ice there. How do you explain the fact that there was no ice there some hundreds of years ago? Are humans responsible?

I am looking strictly at the science and anyone who suggests that the science suggests that we are causing climate change is torturing the evidence to fit in a nonexistant reality. There isn't a whit of evidence that proves that we are causing global climate change. The "consensus" of scientists that suggest we are responsible are basing their positions on computer models that can not accurately show past climate patters or even present patterns. Explain please, why they should be believed to be able to predict future patterns if they don't accurately reflect past and present patterns.