Gitmo, gitclosed

Let us not forget that GW Bush's grandfather supplied the nazis with materials until he was forcibly stopped by the US Government.

Oh and Chestnut, the difference in WW2 was that Germany was the aggressor.

Bush started the war against Iraq on trumped up charges.

If you want an analogy Bush is playing the part of Hitler.
 
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Let us not forget that GW Bush's grandfather supplied the nazis with materials until he was forcibly stopped by the US Government.

Oh and Chestnut, the difference in WW2 was that Germany was the aggressor.

Bush started the war against Iraq on trumped up charges.

If you want an analogy Bush is playing the part of Hitler.

And coming soon to a theater in your backyard, you're going to realize that Obama is playing Hitler this time 'round...and Lennon, and Marx...
 
CBS) As opposite as George Bush and John Kerry may seem to be, they do share a common secret - one they've shared for decades, and one they will not share with the electorate.

The secret: details of their membership in Skull and Bones, the elite Yale University society whose members include some of the most powerful men of the 20th century.

Bonesmen, as they're called, are forbidden to reveal what goes on in their inner sanctum, the windowless building on the Yale campus that is called the Tomb...

..Over the years, Bones has included presidents, cabinet officers, spies, Supreme Court justices, captains of industry, and often their sons and lately their daughters, a social and political network like no other...

.. "I spoke with about 100 members of Skull and Bones and they were members who were tired of the secrecy, and that's why they were willing to talk to me,” says Robbins. “But probably twice that number hung up on me, harassed me, or threatened me.” ..

..Skull and Bones, with all its ritual and macabre relics, was founded in 1832 as a new world version of secret student societies that were common in Germany at the time. Since then, it has chosen or "tapped" only 15 senior students a year who become patriarchs when they graduate -- lifetime members of the ultimate old boys' club.

“Skull and Bones is so tiny. That's what makes this staggering,” says Robbins. “There are only 15 people a year, which means there are about 800 living members at any one time.”

But a lot of Bonesmen have gone on to positions of great power, which Robbins says is the main purpose of this secret society: to get as many members as possible into positions of power.

“They do have many individuals in influential positions,” says Robbins. “And that's why this is something that we need to know about.”

President Bush has tapped five fellow Bonesmen to join his administration. Most recently, he selected William Donaldson, Skull and Bones 1953, the head of the Securities and Exchange Commission. Like the President, he's taken the Bones oath of silence.
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Ron Rosenbaum, author and columnist for the New York Observer, has become obsessed with cracking that code of secrecy.

“I think there is a deep and legitimate distrust in America for power and privilege that are cloaked in secrecy. It's not supposed to be the way we do things,” says Rosenbaum. “We're supposed to do things out in the open in America. And so that any society or institution that hints that there is something hidden is, I think, a legitimate subject for investigation.” ..

..“It's this sepulchral, tomblike, windowless, granite, sandstone bulk that you can't miss. And I lived next to it,” says Rosenbaum. “I had passed it all the time. And during the initiation rites, you could hear strange cries and whispers coming from the Skull and Bones tomb.”..

.. “A woman holds a knife and pretends to slash the throat of another person lying down before them, and there's screaming and yelling at the neophytes,” he says.

Robbins says the cast of the initiation ritual is right out of Harry Potter meets Dracula: “There is a devil, a Don Quixote and a Pope who has one foot sheathed in a white monogrammed slipper resting on a stone skull. The initiates are led into the room one at a time. And once an initiate is inside, the Bonesmen shriek at him. Finally, the Bonesman is shoved to his knees in front of Don Quixote as the shrieking crowd falls silent. And Don Quixote lifts his sword and taps the Bonesman on his left shoulder and says, ‘By order of our order, I dub thee knight of Euloga.’" ..

..“Prescott Bush, George W's grandfather, and a band of Bonesmen, robbed the grave of Geronimo, took the skull and some personal relics of the Apache chief and brought them back to the tomb,” says Robbins. “There is still a glass case, Bonesmen tell me, within the tomb that displays a skull that they all refer to as Geronimo.” ..

..Mr. Bush, like his father and grandfather before him, has refused to talk openly about Skull and Bones. But as a Bonesman, he was required to reveal his innermost secrets to his fellow Bones initiates.

“They're supposed to recount their entire sexual histories in sort of a dim, a dimly-lit cozy room. The other 14 members are sitting on plush couches, and the lights are dimmed,” says Robbins. “And there's a fire roaring. And the, this activity is supposed to last anywhere from between one to three hours.”
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What’s the point of this?

”I believe the point of the year in the tomb is to forge such a strong bond between these 15 new members that after they graduate, for them to betray Skull and Bones would mean they'd have to betray their 14 closest friends,” says Robbins.

One can't help but make certain comparisons with the mafia, for example. Secret society, bonding, stakes may be a little higher in one than the other. But everybody knows everything about everybody, which is a form of protection.

“I think Skull and Bones has had slightly more success than the mafia in the sense that the leaders of the five families are all doing 100 years in jail, and the leaders of the Skull and Bones families are doing four and eight years in the White House,” says Rosenbaum.~ Source: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/02/60minutes/main576332.shtml

Let's hope none of the prosecutors after Gitmo is closed are "Bonesmen"...else it'll all be a huge miscarraige of justice and a waste of time.
 
If you don't think that your military makes mistakes you are naive
If you don't think that there are malicious elements in the military and government you are spectacularly naive.
And if you think you can know guilt without trial and go straight to sentencing you are backward.
It always amazes me how gullible Americans are.
The person above just cannot countenance that the miltary would do anything wrong depsite Lindie England et al.
No wonder Holywood has to distort history to make Americans always the good guys.

You know the latest figure by the Pentagon said 60 plus of those released went back to terror organizations.
 
Of course they wont be allowed to "walk the streets" what is going to happen, is that over the next year, all of the approx. 250 detainees there will have thier case reviewed and then decided on through a case by case process.
If they can be tried in American courts, they could be released to the judicial system in the country where they came from, or another appropriate third country.

There is a bill that will be before Congress before to long that will outlaw bringing any of these detainees to US soil.

Further, many countries have pointed out that if we send them back to where they came from they will be actually tortured or simply shot. It is a big issue that needs to be solved before we set closure dates.
 
You know the latest figure by the Pentagon said 60 plus of those released went back to terror organizations.

I'm sorry BigRob, but the libs will just chalk that up to Conservative conspiracy talk... You have no chance against the libs, the have no ears with which to hear you.
 
We should spend our money defending terrorists trying to kill people of this nation.

It will never make sense to me.

Instead of trying to give them the same liberties as Americans, let's remember why they are there and what their intentions are.

I am sure it will not, it would require knowing the point of law and justice , the point of our legal system, and the reason it is in our constitution. But you will I am sure be fine thinking only the innocent have the right to a trail. of course that basically means there is no reason to ever have one, as you have judged guilt already in who can have one.
 
That all may be true... But I thought this was about terrorists and their lack of rights and closing gitmo.

I think Obama owes the islamic community something back for helping him get elected.

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/secret-foreign-terrorist-money-floods-obama-campaign

And of course Hillary Clinton will owe them too.

All the Dems will owe the Islamic Extremists so much.. won't this be a fun time to live in?

your a terrorist...there I said it, you have no rights...that is your legal system. Lets just kill you now
 
There is a bill that will be before Congress before to long that will outlaw bringing any of these detainees to US soil.

Further, many countries have pointed out that if we send them back to where they came from they will be actually tortured or simply shot. It is a big issue that needs to be solved before we set closure dates.

That is there legal system, sucks for them , but while we hold them , they do we not need to have some laws in place? Or do we just say so long as we can keep changing or chalinging the legal deffinition of who they are, we can do what ever we want , when ever we want with them?

Is the idea that the US can grab someone overseas, tourture them, jail them for life, never charge them, never prove anything, never let them defend himself...a system you think is smart, upholds US values , and is a system you think should also be fine for other nations to us against us? Can Mexico run across the border, take some Americans, and hold them in Cuba in the same way? or would you demand that Mexico be punished and that we go get our people back?
 
That is there legal system, sucks for them , but while we hold them , they do we not need to have some laws in place? Or do we just say so long as we can keep changing or chalinging the legal deffinition of who they are, we can do what ever we want , when ever we want with them?

We never changed the definition of who they are, we defined them one way from the start, and people got upset about it.

Is the idea that the US can grab someone overseas, tourture them, jail them for life, never charge them, never prove anything, never let them defend himself...a system you think is smart, upholds US values , and is a system you think should also be fine for other nations to us against us? Can Mexico run across the border, take some Americans, and hold them in Cuba in the same way? or would you demand that Mexico be punished and that we go get our people back?

Congress could have passed a law at any time to change how GITMO was run. The fact that they did not should tell you something.
 
We never changed the definition of who they are, we defined them one way from the start, and people got upset about it.



Congress could have passed a law at any time to change how GITMO was run. The fact that they did not should tell you something.

and they had a approval rating as low as bush, that should tell you something.
 
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I wouldn't mind if we closed the detention center at Gitmo, provided we put in place sensible rules for dealing with the enemies we capture.

We should start by calling the WOT what it is: a war. (Most accurate title I've heard so far, is "The war by terrorists against us".) Then we should declare those people Prisoners of War, and treat them accordingly, as described by the Geneva Convention. This would include:

1.) Keeping them prisoner until hostilities cease. As lont as their friends keep declaring they are at war with us, and they keep attacking our troops or our civilians, hostilities have not ceased.
2.) No torture (we already follow this rule perfectly). Interrogations, including long ones, are OK.
3.) People found engaging in hostile acts against us, without uniforms, will be summarily executed in the field as spies.
4.) People without uniforms found engaging in hostile acts against civilians of either side, will be summarily executed in the field.
5.) People WITH uniforms found engaging in hostile acts against civilians of either side, will be duly tried and punished appropriately.

...plus more as called out in the Geneva Convention.

I'd suggest to the people who oppose us, that they declare allegiance to one or more countries, enlist in that country's armed forces, and put on a uniform. If they don't, points 3 and 4 above, apply.

If the terrorists start wishing they could go back to Gitmo instead, tough luck. They had that chance, and they (and their supporters) blew it.
 
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