Eliminating Government Unions..It's about time

[GenSeneca]

He's accountable when the budget doesn't balance due to excessive concessions.... Excessive concessions to the union don't translate into higher taxes, but into the school district (or I suppose other entities as well) going into the red, which normally results in the superintendent joining the unemployed.

Whether he gets fired or keeps his job, the taxpayers are still on the hook for the bad deal he brokered... And I've never once heard of a super being fired for making unsustainable promises to his union pals.

 

[PLC1]

Whether he gets fired or keeps his job, the taxpayers are still on the hook for the bad deal he brokered... And I've never once heard of a super being fired for making unsustainable promises to his union pals.

His union pals??!!

The union is the other team, the opposition, the enemy as seen from the standpoint of the superintendent's office. Saying he's making promises to his union pals is like saying that the 49ers are holding back and letting their pals, the Packers, win the game. It doesn't work that way.

And no, it doesn't leave the taxpayers on the hook. School districts get so many dollars per kid, period. If the local administration overspends, tough. It is the superintendent who holds the purse strings, and who gets fired if the district can't balance its budget. The school district does not have the power to raise taxes, at least that's how it works in California. Maybe it's different in Oregon.

 

[GenSeneca]

His union pals??!!

Yeah... The same union he used to pay dues to, and was part of, prior to being elected to the office of superintendent with the help and support of the union.... at least in the case of the Wisconsin superintendent.

And no, it doesn't leave the taxpayers on the hook. School districts get so many dollars per kid, period. If the local administration overspends, tough.

So if the district negotiates with the union and signs a contract for benefits the district cannot afford, the teachers simply get shafted when it comes time to deliver on the negotiated contract? I'll take Horse Hockey for $500 Alex.

It is the superintendent who holds the purse strings, and who gets fired if the district can't balance its budget.

I don't know how Oregon came up... and I believe you know how California operates... but in Wisconsin, the superintendent is voted into office for a 4 year term.

Unions have the ability to steer huge amounts of money into political campaigns in order to get the most union friendly individual elected to the very office responsible for negotiating union contracts with the state.... I'll take Conflicts of Interest for $1000 Alex.

 

[PLC1]

Yeah... The same union he used to pay dues to, and was part of, prior to being elected to the office of superintendent with the help and support of the union.... at least in the case of the Wisconsin superintendent.


So if the district negotiates with the union and signs a contract for benefits the district cannot afford, the teachers simply get shafted when it comes time to deliver on the negotiated contract? I'll take Horse Hockey for $500 Alex.


I don't know how Oregon came up... and I believe you know how California operates... but in Wisconsin, the superintendent is voted into office for a 4 year term.

Unions have the ability to steer huge amounts of money into political campaigns in order to get the most union friendly individual elected to the very office responsible for negotiating union contracts with the state.... I'll take Conflicts of Interest for $1000 Alex.

The unions in California do not negotiate with the state. Teachers unions negotiate with the superintendent and board. The superintendent and board can not raise taxes to get more money for their school districts.

Sure, there are some supers who once were teachers and who belonged to the CTA (most popular union in California). That doesn't mean that it was the union who helped them get their cushy job sitting in the district office. Once playing the role of superintendent, the union becomes the other team.

Somehow, I thought you were from Oregon. Is it Wisconsin? Are the superintendents elected there? Here, they are hired by the school boards, who are elected locally. Neither the board nor the superintendent can raise taxes. If they can in Wisconsin, then you have a problem there that does not exist here.

 

[Rick]

Note: By state law, california teachers get pensions from CalSTRS, which are lavish defined benefit, and of course almost nowhere to be found for average workers in the private sector.

 

[PLC1]

Note: By state law, california teachers get pensions from CalSTRS, which are lavish defined benefit, and of course almost nowhere to be found for average workers in the private sector.

Correct, and also by state law, teachers pay for that pension plan. The payment is much like Social Security: 8% from the employee, and another 8% from the employer. The difference is that the "evil" union kept the state from putting that money into the general fund and spending it on day to day operation of government, as the federal government did with SS. As a result, the STRS is solvent through 2042 and still is able to pay much better than SS.

Wouldn't it be great if there had been some entity looking out for SS in a similar way? Everyone could have a "lavish" (read- enough money to live on) pension plan and we wouldn't be talking about its impending bankruptcy.

 

[nobull]

Thank you all..I have been educated..lol

best regards
doug

 

[PLC1]

Thank you all..I have been educated..lol

best regards
doug

You're welcome.

 

[Dr.Who]

Correct, and also by state law, teachers pay for that pension plan. The payment is much like Social Security: 8% from the employee, and another 8% from the employer. The difference is that the "evil" union kept the state from putting that money into the general fund and spending it on day to day operation of government, as the federal government did with SS. As a result, the STRS is solvent through 2042 and still is able to pay much better than SS.

Wouldn't it be great if there had been some entity looking out for SS in a similar way? Everyone could have a "lavish" (read- enough money to live on) pension plan and we wouldn't be talking about its impending bankruptcy.

useful information and thaks too.

However even if the SS funds had been kept in Gore's "lock box" it would still have failed to keep up with the markets. Every single person forced to invest in SS would have been better off to have used their own money however they felt best. The freedom to spend the fruits of ones own labor is an invaluable freedom - even an inalienable right specifically referred to in the constitution in the "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness" phrase which is a direct paraphrasing and expansion of Locke's concept of Life, liberty and right to property.

In order of value the worst situation is one in which the government takes your money and spends it on bad stuff, next is when they spend it on good stuff, next, and best, is when they let you keep it.

 

[Rick]

Correct, and also by state law, teachers pay for that pension plan. The payment is much like Social Security: 8% from the employee, and another 8% from the employer. The difference is that the "evil" union kept the state from putting that money into the general fund and spending it on day to day operation of government, as the federal government did with SS. As a result, the STRS is solvent through 2042 and still is able to pay much better than SS.

Wouldn't it be great if there had been some entity looking out for SS in a similar way? Everyone could have a "lavish" (read- enough money to live on) pension plan and we wouldn't be talking about its impending bankruptcy.

First of all, I heard the pension plan is massively underfunded, but maybe that's CALPERS. In the private sector, people have 401Ks. If the stock market crashes, as in the last several years, their retirement crashes too. With defined benefit, the teachers still get every penny. Where do they get it from? Taxes on people with the 401ks whose retirements just got defunded. But hey, the private sector drudges can always work till age 70, both because now they need to, and also to pay for those ex-teachers to lie on their ass - the same ones who gave their grandchildren an education that ranks them behind all the industrialized countries.

 

[PLC1]

First of all, I heard the pension plan is massively underfunded, but maybe that's CALPERS. In the private sector, people have 401Ks. If the stock market crashes, as in the last several years, their retirement crashes too. With defined benefit, the teachers still get every penny. Where do they get it from? Taxes on people with the 401ks whose retirements just got defunded. But hey, the private sector drudges can always work till age 70, both because now they need to, and also to pay for those ex-teachers to lie on their ass - the same ones who gave their grandchildren an education that ranks them behind all the industrialized countries.

All of which only proves that you shouldn't believe everything you hear.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

All of which only proves that you shouldn't believe everything you hear.

also that some people can't hear facts like...they have agreed to evry financial payment issue in the bill ...weeks ago....

Unions are evil...teachers making 50,000 a year ( or as little as 25,000) are overpaid as all they do it teach all those kids the things they will need to know to live in a world dominated my math science and that crazy ability to write things or to have some knowlage of history....Overpaid....

I mean can't we be spending that money to help Rich people like David koch who made his billions the hard way...his Dad gave it to him.

 

[Dr.Who]

First of all, I heard the pension plan is massively underfunded, but maybe that's CALPERS. In the private sector, people have 401Ks. If the stock market crashes, as in the last several years, their retirement crashes too. With defined benefit, the teachers still get every penny. Where do they get it from? Taxes on people with the 401ks whose retirements just got defunded. But hey, the private sector drudges can always work till age 70, both because now they need to, and also to pay for those ex-teachers to lie on their ass - the same ones who gave their grandchildren an education that ranks them behind all the industrialized countries.

PLC seems to think that what you heard is wrong. Lets examine this statement and rate it on the HOPolitiFact meter. ( which I declare to be trademarked and patented by me, all rights reserved by me, only I can use the word HOPolitifact )

Pension funds in Illinois are underfunded as are the pensions in many other states too. I declare that HOPolitiFact rates this statement as true.

People in the private sector have 401K's. HOPolitiFact rates this as true.

If the stock market crashes 401k funds can suffer. HOPolitiFact rates this as true.

Teachers get their benefits regardless of what the stock market does. HOPolitiFact rates this as true. (but they can lose their benefits even after they have been paid into the system if the legislature takes them away)

The money to fund teacher pensions comes from those with 401k's. HOPolitiFact rates this as half true. It does come from people with 401k's but also from people without 401k's and even from the payroll taxes that the teachers themselves pay.

People in the private sector can work until they are 70. HOPolitiFact rates this as true.

People in the private sector need to work until age 70. HOPolitiFact rates this as false. Statistically speaking people in their 70's are well off financially compared to the rest of the population. There are some who are not but they do not represent the norm as was implied by the statement.

People in the private sector can pay taxes to fund the retirement accounts of retired teachers who will lie around when retired. HOPolitiFact rates this as half true for the same reason that the above half true response was half true.

Grandchildren today have an education that ranks them behind all industrial nations. HOPolitiFact rates this as false. The US ranks 18 out of 36 industrialized nations on education.

 

[Rick]

All of which only proves that you shouldn't believe everything you hear.

So this is all wrong, huh?

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/stories/2010/04/05/daily15.html

And teachers DO get a defined benefit pension, so your comment seems pretty mindless.

 

[PLC1]

So this is all wrong, huh?

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/stories/2010/04/05/daily15.html

And teachers DO get a defined benefit pension, so your comment seems pretty mindless.

No, it sounds about right:

“The Stanford study uses outdated data and suggests we should violate our actuarial standards of practice and governmental accounting rules to create a zero-risk investment portfolio,” said Clark McKinley, spokesman with CalPERS. “Our track record is clear: we have earned a 7.9 percent return over the last 20 years, and that’s the return that lifts the burdens of the taxpayer on pensions, and results in sound funding of our system.”