Do you believe in gravity?

[samsara15]

Max Tegmark believes that the universe / reality may be nothing but mathematics. An intriguing idea. One out of four or five ideas that, IMO, may be feasible explanations for reality. Would God be mathematics, in that concept?

 

[numinus]

Here's an easily generated transdescental number:

1.010010000010000000000000000000000001....

The number of zeros corresponds to N!. Liouville made that one up.

Nonsense.

The liouville constant is defined as (forgive me, this forum is not capable of mathematical symbols) the summation of 10^-k! (k factorial) from k=1 to infinity.

Obviously, this number is less than 1.

And no, we do not invent or generate transcendental numbers. They simply occur within the set of real numbers.

 

[numinus]

Max Tegmark believes that the universe / reality may be nothing but mathematics. An intriguing idea. One out of four or five ideas that, IMO, may be feasible explanations for reality. Would God be mathematics, in that concept?

This isn't really new. Using the metaphysical standard for existence, it might surprise you that very few things actually have true existence -- mathematics and logic being a good example.

We take for granted that human consciousness has true existence. However, if you assert that consciousness is a mere function of our material constitution, then there is no such thing as human existence.

 

[numinus]

You are asking if math is god?

If the universe were a computer, math and physics would be its instruction manual. Somebody else should have put the hardware together and designed the software that it runs on. Otherwise, the computer would be nothing more than a blinking box.

 

[numinus]

I think we are quite opposite. I would ask the question: Wouldn't it be more logical to remain agnostic to god and have faith in science.

If you really think that way, then it is up to me to stand you on your head to make some rational sense of what you are saying.

Science is based on what can be proven within its method. Science has no business asserting anything without this kind of proof. Certainly, it has no business soliciting anyone else's faith.

Science doesn't have all the answers yet, but dropping science and going to faith in god simply ends the whole process of thought. If you say "god started it all", end of story. There is nothing left to analyze or do.

I would be the last person to abandon science. The prospects of being unemployed isn't really a pleasant thought.

What I am not prepared to accept is the assertion that science constitutes the end-all, be-all of human knowledge.

No need to be sorry. Physicists will continue to look deeper into the problem. There isn't any reason to believe that they have hit the end of the story. You yourself can deal with the metaphysics. It seems that you are actively interested in the physics of the universe. Are you going to be similar to the scientists that devote their lives to trying to disprove evolution through "scientific" counter-arguments?

I'm not inclined to do such a thing. My faith does not contradict evolution nor physical cosmology.

 

[numinus]

Here's an easily generated transdescental number:

1.010010000010000000000000000000000001....

The number of zeros corresponds to N!. Liouville made that one up.

Good grief! I just realized! You did not understand what I meant by base n number system.

The decimal system is a base 10 number system. The binary system, base 2. And you can concieve of an infinite number of base n number system, and the transcendental numbers would still be transcendental in any of these.

 

[samsara15]

This IS intended to be a base ten number, not binary, abeit it may LOOK like a binary number, with each successive 1 separated by N factorial zeros.

From Wiki:

Liouville's theorem has various meanings, all mathematical results named after Joseph Liouville:

In complex analysis, see Liouville's theorem (complex analysis).
In conformal mappings, see Liouville's theorem (conformal mappings).
In Hamiltonian mechanics, see Liouville's theorem (Hamiltonian).
------------
In number theory, the theorem that any Liouville number is transcendental, or the lemma involved on diophantine approximation.
---------------
In differential algebra, a theorem which allows one to determine when a given elementary function has no elementary integral, see Liouville's theorem (differential algebra)

 

[samsara15]

Yes, you are correct, numinus, I misquoted the Liouville number. However, it was intended to be base ten.

 

[samsara15]

A transcendental number is simply a non-algebraic number, is it not?

 

[samsara15]

Might I ask you what faith you have, what kind of supernatural beliefs you hold, numinus?

 

[samsara15]

Regarding mathematics, there is no such thing as either a straight or a continuous line in nature. Nor are there any true circles, squares, or triangles. The reality we experience is discontinuous. The common geometric figures only exist in nature as approximations.

Mathematics exists in a space apart from the gritty, inexact reality we deal with on a day to day basis.

 

[numinus]

This IS intended to be a base ten number, not binary, abeit it may LOOK like a binary number, with each successive 1 separated by N factorial zeros.

From Wiki:

Liouville's theorem has various meanings, all mathematical results named after Joseph Liouville:

In complex analysis, see Liouville's theorem (complex analysis).
In conformal mappings, see Liouville's theorem (conformal mappings).
In Hamiltonian mechanics, see Liouville's theorem (Hamiltonian).
------------
In number theory, the theorem that any Liouville number is transcendental, or the lemma involved on diophantine approximation.
---------------
In differential algebra, a theorem which allows one to determine when a given elementary function has no elementary integral, see Liouville's theorem (differential algebra)

I meant this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numeral_system

A numeral system (or system of numeration) is a writing system for expressing numerals, and a mathematical notation for representing numbers of a given set, using graphemes or symbols in a consistent manner. It can be seen as the context that allows the numeral "11" to be interpreted as the binary numeral for three, the decimal numeral for eleven, or other numbers in different bases.

The article goes on to enumerate the number systems used at one point or another in human history -- base 2 (binary), 3 (ternary), 5 (quinary), 8 (octal), 10 (decimal), 12 (duodecimal) etc. etc.

The transcendental nature of pi and e remains in ALL concieveable number system.

 

[samsara15]

Do you read the posts put up by other people, numinus, or do you just decide what you think they mean and then begin making cutting quips?

 

[numinus]

A transcendental number is simply a non-algebraic number, is it not?

Correct, except that some transcendental numbers are necessary in describing the behavior of the physical world. Why they do that is anyone's guess.

I doubt even archimedes realized the importance of pi when he first speculated it. Turns out, it is a necessary number in general relativity, a theory to describe space-time.

Coincidence? Or is it somehow embedded in objective reality? Think about it.

 

[numinus]

Regarding mathematics, there is no such thing as either a straight or a continuous line in nature. Nor are there any true circles, squares, or triangles. The reality we experience is discontinuous. The common geometric figures only exist in nature as approximations.

Mathematics exists in a space apart from the gritty, inexact reality we deal with on a day to day basis.

Exactly.

That is why true existence is attributed to mathematics, and the physical world, merely a fluid existence.